Opinion Should We Be Ruthless?

[_RT_]

Over the last few years we've seen Essendon chop Knights while still contracted and get Hird Thompson and co in and have become a much better side as a result. 2 years ago Freo sacked Harvey IIRC and got Ross Lyon in and again have become a better side and the Blues knocked off a favourite son in Ratten (was out of contract anyway) and went out and got Malthouse in the hope of them taking the next step. After last night the chat has started that perhaps we should cut Hardwick and go after someone like Paul Roos to see if he can take us to the next level.

Personally I don't think it's the right move, after 4 lots of drafts/trading Hardwick has just now got a list that can be a contender for the finals, but still a little way off being a genuine premiership threat. I still believe that after a little more tinkering with the list we can be a side that is a genuine contender. At the same time I realise that footy is a ruthless business and that sometimes change has to be made before the opportunity passes to make the right call.

So I put it to the posters here, should we be ruthless and go after Roos or should we stick with Hardwick?

 

[theflea]

I think if we can SIGN roos maybe otherwise no. There is no point doing it unless we get the best.

 

[Barnzy]

Undecided right now. Ask me again in another couple months.

Hardwick has done a lot right and developed us from a basket case to very competitive but also a lot of things I don't like about his coaching tenure. The game plan has been a worry for quite awhile. He also seems reluctant to play some of the youth and seems content with where the side is at. Stil many of the same old deficent players in the team holding us back. Kids like Dea, Helbig, Arnot, etc how are we going to ever know if they can cut if you don't give them games and exposure in the seniors?

We were older than the Bombers on the weekend for what it's worth so the development excuse has gone out of the window. Simply just not good enough right now.

 

[Tigerbob]

If we can get better we would be deralect in our duties not to do so. If we are not aiming to win a flag then give the club up.

I don't see a flag in Dimma.

 

[RichoLedio]

I definitely think we should consider our options and see who's out there but I don't think someone like Roos is the answer

 

[BC9_]

Maybe we should be ruthless in our playing style for starters.

 

[tunksy]

if he cant get the midfield to play defensively by say end of year or mid next year. show him the door, he has done very well to turn the list around and deserves a lot of credit for what he has achieved. atm he's still our man. and i voted yes.

imo list still needs another draft more mids and year of development. think we can find help for him in the coaches box if need be, and dimma will be the first guy to put his hand up and say he needs help with something.

 

[Turka]

I'm undecided right now. I get a feeling he's too close to the players, and continues to play favorites. There's too much of a gap between our good and bad, and I include players in that, such as King and McGuane. We need to try Edwards and Arnot at least. The first to help us in Perth, the second to help us out for good.
Beating West Coast will be awfully hard, but if we go 5-5, it will become awfully hard.
We've slipped to 10th in a heartbeat. We have to slip back up.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Players have built a solid friendship with Dimma.

Let's sign Jack, Dustin & Cotch first and then talk.

Let's trade Maric whilst he's still got some value left, he's a shell of his former self. Shocking season. When you lose the hitouts 41-16, that's a disgrace.

One of the reasons we lost last night was thanks to our midfield being shot to pieces, Maric did nothing.

Dimma should only go if Chocco replaces him.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Undecided right now. Ask me again in another couple months.

Hardwick has done a lot right and developed us from a basket case to very competitive but also a lot of things I don't like about his coaching tenure. The game plan has been a worry for quite awhile. He also seems reluctant to play some of the youth and seems content with where the side is at. Stil many of the same old deficent players in the team holding us back. Kids like Dea, Helbig, Arnot, etc how are we going to ever know if they can cut if you don't give them games and exposure in the seniors?

We were older than the Bombers on the weekend for what it's worth so the development excuse has gone out of the window. Simply just not good enough right now.

Thank goodness, someone else with common sense.

Four losses and we're calling for the coaches head? LOL

 

[tugga]

Hardwick stays until at least halfway through next season no matter what.
Let's wait and see how this season pans out yet.
I think Roos will be available this time next year and I don't envisage him wanting the Melbourne job. I don't think any other coaches are under any genuine pressure to keep their job.
We can afford to give Dimma 12 months and assess it next year.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Hardwick has done a lot right and developed us from a basket case to very competitive...

The 'basket case' side Hardwick inherited, Barnzy, was unlucky not to beat the premiers in 2009 and did beat the eventual premiers late in 2008. With a full list we were a competitive side.

Dumping the players we did, refusing to give games to Tuck, refusing to take on a couple of new mature players much earlier in the piece, all contributed heavily to making us the 'basket case' some people choose to remember.

We were told to wear temporarily being a 'basket case' because as soon as 50 games were into the new Hardwick draftees, we'd be well on our way to being a regular finals side.

Hasn't happened, it's been a complete disaster beyond some 'can't fail' first rounders.

Agree with most of your other points.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Hardwick stays until at least halfway through next season no matter what.
Let's wait and see how this season pans out yet.
I think Roos will be available this time next year and I don't envisage him wanting the Melbourne job. I don't think any other coaches are under any genuine pressure to keep their job.
We can afford to give Dimma 12 months and assess it next year.

That's the problem though. ANOTHER mid season sacking??

We need an end of year decision made. Either he stays or goes, right now our players come into big games flat, avoiding the challenge and without a real plan B if our plan A doesn't work.

This is a coaching problem we have, Dimma's got time to fix it. But by jolly, if you're making the same mistakes over and over again, your time is running out.

How many ****ing times will the opposition goal square be vacant during a stoppage deep in defensive 50. Absolutely ridiculous how many important goals we've coughed up. Jobe Watson's first in the third, Ballantyne's sealer in the Fremantle defeat. That's poor coaching to me.

 

[RichoLedio]

Players have built a solid friendship with Dimma.

Let's sign Jack, Dustin & Cotch first and then talk.

Let's trade Maric whilst he's still got some value left, he's a shell of his former self. Shocking season. When you lose the hitouts 41-16, that's a disgrace.

One of the reasons we lost last night was thanks to our midfield being shot to pieces, Maric did nothing.

Dimma should only go if Chocco replaces him.

Maybe too friendly? I don't think it's healthy to be too close with the players, clouds the judgement

 

[Rayzorwire]

I didn't add my thoughts on the OP, RT, because I figure you'd know my answer and voted accordingly.

Just wondering, without trying to drift the thread too much, following on from your thread from last week, upset at us not burying Melbourne, how did you feel about the way the Dockers (that ultra-defensive side incapable of attack) buried Melbourne today despite their massive list of outs?

I submit that Harvey would be bottom-4 with the same outs and same list, Hardwick would be in the same place. Lyon is an exceptional coach making a massive difference.

 

[tugga]

That's the problem though. ANOTHER mid season sacking??

We need an end of year decision made. Either he stays or goes, right now our players come into big games flat, avoiding the challenge and without a real plan B if our plan A doesn't work.

This is a coaching problem we have, Dimma's got time to fix it. But by jolly, if you're making the same mistakes over and over again, your time is running out.

How many ******* times will the opposition goal square be vacant during a stoppage deep in defensive 50. Absolutely ridiculous how many important goals we've coughed up. Jobe Watson's first in the third, Ballantyne's sealer in the Fremantle defeat. That's poor coaching to me.

Fair points. I am happy to wait until the end of the season then, but not a minute before.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Fair points. I am happy to wait until the end of the season then, but not a minute before.

End of year if we've got a big fish lined up. Gives the next season some hope. Damn it would be amazing to have Ross Lyon as our coach. That's a top, top coach right there. Dimma is a great list manager, I love our list, I reckon we've improved so much and have lots more improvement to do, but his coaching is what's costing us four points over and over again.

When we're the hunter, we claim some scalps.

When we're the hunted, we get killed. When teams try to shut us down, and it's our turn to respond, we turn to jelly and let them dispose of us. It's really frustrating, that Essendon loss was a farce. We were still in the game with 8 minutes to go, but no can gave a shit. Felt like we were 50 points down. One of the worst losses I've ever seen from us, it really felt like we gave us. Dimma was such a hard nut, but his team relies on game plans too much and not enough on instinct, pressure, momentum. It's damn frustrating because I think we're a few steps away from being top 4. But with the errors we made we would be eaten alive in finals, so what's the point of making them??

 

[tugga]

End of year if we've got a big fish lined up. Gives the next season some hope. Damn it would be amazing to have Ross Lyon as our coach. That's a top, top coach right there. Dimma is a great list manager, I love our list, I reckon we've improved so much and have lots more improvement to do, but his coaching is what's costing us four points over and over again.

When we're the hunter, we claim some scalps.

When we're the hunted, we get killed. When teams try to shut us down, and it's our turn to respond, we turn to jelly and let them dispose of us. It's really frustrating, that Essendon loss was a farce. We were still in the game with 8 minutes to go, but no can gave a shit. Felt like we were 50 points down. One of the worst losses I've ever seen from us, it really felt like we gave us. Dimma was such a hard nut, but his team relies on game plans too much and not enough on instinct, pressure, momentum. It's damn frustrating because I think we're a few steps away from being top 4. But with the errors we made we would be eaten alive in finals, so what's the point of making them??

Agree with most points. I think last year and for the first few rounds this year we were playing on instinct. The Carlton game was a perfect example. We blew them away with three quarters of helter skelter footy and froze in the last. Lately it does seem like we are playing a very structured game plan and we simply don't have the cattle to do this with key players out. I want to just see our boys let loose man on man. I'd be confident against any side man on man. But all these structures and stifling our natural talents as players.

 

[theflea]

The 'basket case' side Hardwick inherited, Barnzy, was unlucky not to beat the premiers in 2009 and did beat the eventual premiers late in 2008. With a full list we were a competitive side.

Dumping the players we did, refusing to give games to Tuck, refusing to take on a couple of new mature players much earlier in the piece, all contributed heavily to making us the 'basket case' some people choose to remember.

We were told to wear temporarily being a 'basket case' because as soon as 50 games were into the new Hardwick draftees, we'd be well on our way to being a regular finals side.

Hasn't happened, it's been a complete disaster beyond some 'can't fail' first rounders.

Agree with most of your other points.

Frankly so what you could use that argument for last as we beat the finalists. We were paying the full amount of the tpp and wernt going anywhere with our older brigade so its no wonder these 'older' guys were let go by the match committee before DH was even appointed. If those TW teams were so competetive then why no finals? They wernt all injured for the majority of his tenure.

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Roos has no respect for the RFC, I don't want a coach coming in for all the wrong reasons.

Give Dimma a break....he's doing a good job but like everyone can and will get better.

Our problems are still that our Core midfield are babies aside from Tuck and Lids and we therefore are 2-3 prime movers short. Dusty and Cotch are these guys but they're still so damn young. We don't have the Stanton's, Goddard's and Watsons rotating through to give the younger guys a chop out.

 

[TheProwler]

These threads are worthy and should be discussed but the timing straight after a loss also can cloud judgment. I would hope our club doesn't make rash decisions on Hardwick based on if we make the eight or not at seasons end. Put things into perspective and analyse them as they are, currently 3 of our best players are playing injured (Cotch, Maric, Lids) and we have copped injuries this year that we didnt last year.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Our highest paid player doesn't perform against reasonable opposition how the **** is that the coaches fault ? I he was dropped this board and wery other forum would go ape shit , yet it is probably what should happen .

 

[Rayzorwire]

Frankly so what you could use that argument for last as we beat the finalists. We were paying the full amount of the tpp and wernt going anywhere with our older brigade so its no wonder these 'older' guys were let go by the match committee before DH was even appointed. If those TW teams were so competetive then why no finals? They wernt all injured for the majority of his tenure.

Like all these discussions, flea, you've seized on the part of the argument which is easy to pseudo defend, but avoided all reference to the sizeable gap between what Hardwick promised via the draft and what has actually materialised.

We weren't paying the full cap, we were paying 92% or something like that from memory. The investment in the football department was massively below where it is now.

We knew way back in 2005 that we had a couple of years where our veterans could genuinely contend, after that we would need to be relying far more heavily on our 2004+ draftees and a whole changing of the guard would occur.

We were slaughtered by injury during the previous era. Like I asked the other day, where would Hardwick be if he was down to his 6th and 7th ruckman? Missing his best mids for years at a time? Missing his best player for years? Missing almost an entire spine?

If this were the case, I'd be the first saying he can't win games with what he has available. As things stand, he can't get what we have available to stand up when it counts.

Tactics, motivation, smart match-ups, it's all missing far too often.

 

[Rayzorwire]

One other thing which should be pointed out, because March is moving on, how likely is it that a newly elected president will want to bring in a new coach at the same time?

Unlikely, IMO.

 

[blaisee]

Like all these discussions, flea, you've seized on the part of the argument which is easy to pseudo defend, but avoided all reference to the sizeable gap between what Hardwick promised via the draft and what has actually materialised.

We weren't paying the full cap, we were paying 92% or something like that from memory. The investment in the football department was massively below where it is now.

We knew way back in 2005 that we had a couple of years where our veterans could genuinely contend, after that we would need to be relying far more heavily on our 2004+ draftees and a whole changing of the guard would occur.

We were slaughtered by injury during the previous era. Like I asked the other day, where would Hardwick be if he was down to his 6th and 7th ruckman? Missing his best mids for years at a time? Missing his best player for years? Missing almost an entire spine?

If this were the case, I'd be the first saying he can't win games with what he has available. As things stand, he can't get what we have available to stand up when it counts.

Tactics, motivation, smart match-ups, it's all missing far too often.

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so let me get this straight, the bloke that didn't think wallet should have been sacked, wants hardwick sacked, and we are sitting 5-4?

Thank God for Richmond supporters