Sir Steven Smith

[TBellicious]

The thread dedicated to the best batsman in the world today, and a future top 5 batsman of all time.

Sir Steven Smith.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

He must be an absolute nightmare to bowl to. Can score everywhere.

Thought England’s short ball tactics to him today were well-considered and executed but his patience was superb.

What a legend!

 

[Maddhew]

If his he retired tomorrow he probably would be a top 10 Australian batsman of all time, he is only 28. If he can keep similar form for the next 7 years he should retire with 40-50 tons and an average well over 50. He will likely be the best since the Don

 

[Gough]

Think we can still do this, our Tone's folly is still on the books as far as I know. Change.org anybody?

 

[PhatBoy]

If his he retired tomorrow he probably would be a top 10 Australian batsman of all time, he is only 28. If he can keep similar form for the next 7 years he should retire with 40-50 tons and an average well over 50. He will likely be the best since the Don

The only thing that can stop him averaging 60-ish after say, 120-140 tests, is his eye.

The only player I’ve seen with an eye close to Smith is De Villiers. He relies on it very heavily especially to straight deliveries (how many times does he crab across the stumps and the bowler thinks he’s bowled him behind his legs or trapped him in front only for that bat to send the ball flying to square leg).

But he’s probably also good enough to develop an alternative technique if or when his eye starts to let him down a bit. Which is still a long way away regardless.

 

[footyfan1978]

The only thing that can stop him averaging 60-ish after say, 120-140 tests, is his eye.

No way will he continue to average 60.

If he finished his career averaging 55 I will be mighty impressed.
Just at top of mountain right now.

 

[PhatBoy]

No way will he continue to average 60.

If he finished his career averaging 55 I will be mighty impressed.
Just at top of mountain right now.

I really don’t see why he won’t barring the factors I mentioned.

Look at the quality of world bowling. England have little of note coming through, nor do Sri Lanka or India. South Africa have Rabada and a number of decent quicks to call on, NZ are solid - Ferguson bowls rockets so might turn into something, West Indies are improving but not brilliant obviously,Pakistan haven’t unearthed a genuine new quick for a while.

It certainly won’t be an amazing generation of bowlers that brings him down.

 

[footyfan1978]

It certainly won’t be an amazing generation of bowlers that brings him down.

That part I agree with but purple patches cannot last.
Just do not think this scoring is sustainable.

Somehow, it will be reeled in over time.

Maybe a bunch of 18 and 19 year old bowlers on the scene in 3 or 4 years time world wide that much better standard than the ordinary bowling era we going through.

One way or another, time will take it's toll on the average.

 

[Demosthenes]

When Smith's reactions start to slow, I'd expect him to go downhill extremely quickly. With his technique, he's just so incredibly reliant on his eye.

I don't see any reason why he can't continue this sort of scoring into his 30s however. He is just so versatile, and (like Steve Waugh) so disciplined in playing to cover his weaknesses.

Root used brilliant tactics against him yesterday, and just nothing worked.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Think we can still do this, our Tone's folly is still on the books as far as I know. Change.org anybody?

No. After the ridicule over the DoE honour, it was rescinded.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Plenty of players have looked like streaking away from the pack in their prime, but by the end their career average has come back to be around about the rest of the elite players. I expect Smith to be the same. However, all that means is instead of being the clear number 2 of all time (which he would be if he continued his current trajectory) he's going to be in the discussion for 2-10 spots I think.

Has made runs around the world too.

 

[TBellicious]

Two clean catches for the freak today

 

[Power Raid]

one of the few genuine test players left in the world

 

[kickazz]

Yeah the problem with "eye" batsmen vs "technique" batsman is that when their reactions slow they can get themselves in quite a bit of strife.

So that will be his challenge.

 

[jiphoc]

Yeah the problem with "eye" batsmen vs "technique" batsman is that when their reactions slow they can get themselves in quite a bit of strife.

So that will be his challenge.

The more I think about this problem the more I don't think it will be a problem. Smith is his biggest critic. I think he will adapt his game as he gets older.

 

[Sylvia Saint]

Between now and his final test innings you'd have to expect a couple of form slumps and a quiet final 12 months (why else would he retire?)...

His average will not stay at 60 but 45 tons and an average of 55 is very possible. Our recent players all had batting averages drop at the end. Ponting, Clarke, Hayden, Hussey and Gilchrist all suffered and they're the best recent Aussies off the top of my head.

Amazing player nonetheless.

 

[KBLT]

I really don't want to jinx anything. But as long as he doesn't fall off a cliff in his thirties, he could be an All-Time Aussie XI player

 

[010203]

He'll score faster 100's, maybe more aesthetically pleasing 100's but he may never score a more important century. It was the quintessential captains performance. Man of the match is a very easy decision for the selection panel.

 

[Belnakor]

The more I think about this problem the more I don't think it will be a problem. Smith is his biggest critic. I think he will adapt his game as he gets older.

agreed. Alot of why Smith scores runs is his temperment and patience.

Ponting was a guy who fell off a cliff but he had two things Smith doesn't - Ponting played ALOT off the front foot, and he also was much more attacking. Ponting's general approach to saving a game (aside from the 150 vs England) was to hit his way out of trouble.

Smith is just a merciless run making machine. Ponting was way ascetic when on song.

 

[Teen Wolf]

I wouldn't put any batsman above Steve Smith in world cricket at the moment, but this was not the definitive chips-are-down knock to certify his status as an all-time great of the game. He hasn't had one yet. His 141* on an atypical Gabba pitch was a gutsy and skillful innings, even better that he did it as captain in the first Test of an Ashes series when his country was in trouble. Having said that, it was against one good bowler near-but-not-in his prime, an old green top bully, a spinner who can't spin it, and two guys the English must've pulled out of the crowd.

He will find himself in plenty more situations like Bengaluru or Dhaka this year or Cardiff in 2015 etc.--how he handles them will be the true signifier of what we're dealing with here. So far he's been unable to stand up like a champion in a second innings when the team is behind in the game (by either a little or a lot), bunsen burners or not. That's a high bar to set, yet it's the very one cleared by all members of the most upper echelon. If slapping around a non-swinging Jimmy Anderson gets you Top 10 Australian Batsman Ever status, Brad Haddin must be the real GOAT. Only, that's not the case. The criteria and competition is a bit stiffer.

I'm naturally skeptical of and frustrated with such a player so talented and inspired in at least two facets of the game but sorely lacking such traits when it comes to employing team, bowling and fielding tactics! That sort of disconnect makes me suspect he may never have what it takes to conjure the answers when the pure mechanics of batting suddenly don't come as easy. I do like him more than I've been letting on, though. One thing I'm sure of is he'll never be as woefully overrated as James Andersmug.

 

[Demosthenes]

I wouldn't put any batsman above Steve Smith in world cricket at the moment, but this was not the definitive chips-are-down knock to certify his status as an all-time great of the game. He hasn't had one yet.

You either have a very selective memory, or you don't watch much cricket.

 

[eth-dog]

So composed. It'll be hard to choose an all time XI from 4-6 out of him, Ponting, Waugh, Chappell and Border.

 

[Teen Wolf]

You either have a very selective memory, or you don't watch much cricket.

I think I laid out a pretty clear criteria that he hasn't yet fulfilled. Name me that stunning knock against quality bowling, or in tricky conditions (preferably both), where he's taken Australia from behind in their second innings to ultimately winning or saving the match.

He's given it a fair shake against Pakistan a couple times but fallen short. His only 3rd innings centuries are against New Zealand in Perth (on a concrete pitch against Mark Craig) and in Pune this year (where we lead by 155 runs after the first dig in a low-scoring affair). No 4th innings centuries to report.

 

[legend166]

Awesome, a thread where I can waste time doing statistical analysis instead of work.

So if we look at Smith's performances in the last 5 years, which excludes the 5 tests he played in 2010 & 2011 as a bowling allrounder (lol), this is what we get:

52 test matches
5252 runs
21 hundreds
64.83 average

For a comparison, Ricky Ponting after his first 52 Tests had 9 hundreds and was averaging 44.19. That was at the end of 2001. The thing about Ponting was that his next 6 years were insane. From 2002-2007 he scored 23 hundreds in 61 tests and averaged 70.36. I remember looking into this awhile ago and from what I could tell that was the best sustained peak out of the Ponting/Tendulkar/Kallis/Lara generation.

The thing, is, if we remove 2013 from Smith's statistics (so looking at 2014-2017), we get:

41 matches
4541 runs
19 hundreds
73.24 average

So he's on pace to better Ponting's peak from 2002-2007 where Ponting was widely acknowledged as passing Greg Chappell to become our best since Bradman. The thing about Ponting's peak, though, is that it happened in what is generally regarding as the peak years for a batsman - that 28 to 33/34 range where the batsman knows his game, scoring zones, etc and has enough experience against international bowling. Smith is only just entering that period now. Of course, not every batsman peaks at that point - Tendulkar for example averaged 49 during those years and ended up playing better from ages 35-40. Ponting, on the other hand, had a precipitous drop, from 2008-2012 he only averaged 40. Although I think if our team was stronger during that period he would have retired sooner.

I can't see Smith dropping that much from now until say age 34. What's the precedent for a player of Smith's quality to suddenly lose it at age 28? Even if he reverts back to just a 50 average he's still going to have an incredible career. On the other hand, if he just replicates what he did over the last 4 years for the next 4 years he's going to overtake Ponting and be our best since Bradman, possibly overtake Tendulkar's hundreds record and go in the conversation for the best ever (excluding Bradman).

 

[Demosthenes]

I think I laid out a pretty clear criteria that he hasn't yet fulfilled. Name me that stunning knock against quality bowling, or in tricky conditions (preferably both), where he's taken Australia from behind in their second innings to ultimately winning or saving the match.

The reality is that Smith has played plenty of chips-are-down knocks in tough conditions where all other batsmen have failed.

Cherry-picking half a dozen very specific criteria, to reverse-engineer a situation where you can say "but he hasn't done this", is meaningless. You can do that for any batsman.