Sliders in 2013

[Hamshamiltonhocking]

At this time of the year. MOST supporters of ALL teams hope that ALL players on their list will have 'break-out' years, or, at least. maintain or improve on the form of the previous season. However, SOME players WILL be 'sliders': it happens every year in every club that the form of some players is not what it once was. In 2013, for Collingwood, in alphabetical order, the 'sliders' could well be:

LUKE BALL: Luke will still be a valuable 'inside-mid', but his style of play has been, and is, very wearing on his body, and it is unrealistic to expect that, after such a serious knee injury, he can return to his excellent form of 2010-11. He will still be good, but not as good.

ALAN DIDAK: Even in 2010, there were signs that Alan had lost a step in pace. Age and injuries will mean that he will not return to his status as an elite small forward. He will still play short cameos, but his ability to dominate a game has probably passed.

BEN JOHNSON: Another affected by increasing age and injuries. Increasingly a bit part player.

DARREN JOLLY: Vital in Collingwood's progress in 2013, but no longer can play anything like a full season. Probably only has half a dozen excellent games per season in him, and Collingwood needs most of those to be during the final series. Will need skilful managing.

NICK MAXWELL: Has always made the most of limited skills, but increasing age will magnify ability shortcomings. Will still be a contributor, but at a lesser level.

HARRY O'BRIEN: Will be the victim of opposition planning. Every team will isolate him with a speedy, skilful opponent, and test him with one-on-ones. Harry might even win a bare majority of these contests, but will lose enough of them to make him an increasing defensive liability.

HEATH SHAW: Likely to be another victim of opposition planning. Every team will play him defensively, knowing that, temperamentally, he does not like that situation. He became frustrated by that tactic in 2012, and will struggle to overcome it in 2013.

Naturally, I hope all these forecasts are wrong, but every team will have 'sliders', and these seem to be the Pies' 'most likely'.

 

[forwardflanker]

Disagree about Luke Ball. Until he did his knee he was actually getting better and better physically speaking. Still think he can get back to where he was in 2011.

Also don't think Johnson has changed that much. Just got injured last year but as soon as you get injured and your over 30 people start saying your over the hill

Agree with you re Maxwell and especially Harry O. However Shaw is a a lot stronger defensively so I think opposition planning that will go into him will be trying to get him away from the play rather than exploit him 1v1

 

[BEEG]

Luke Ball knows what to do he has a job and will do it perfectly in 2013

If Hayes can come back as well as he did I have no doubts Ball can aswell

Jonno Jolly will be good if managed properly which I am sure they will

Shaw Obrien are coming into there primes don't see why yo will tthink they will drop of

Didak I do agree with won't be best 22 will be good depth

 

[loki04]

Actually think the year off will do wonders for Ball, he has played the game as maniac bull his whole life getting battered and having OP.

Knee injury may have been a blessing in disguise.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Gametime is a zero sum game.

For every new or up-and-coming player to earn a game, there must be an established player who is dropped on form, injury, etc.

Sure, we've lost 3 "best 22" players (Taz, Dawes, Wellingham) which will open up opportunities. But we've got a bunch of players returning from injury / traded in / drafted / promoted / up-and coming who will be trying to fill those three vacant spots and more.

Maybe we'll have a year like 2010? We had quite a few sliders, and our Premiership 22 ended up being quite different.

 

[Hva sher a]

this is more in the category of temporary slider but I don't think Lachy Keefe will make much of a contribution in 2013. ACLs take a while to come back from particularly for KPPs - and if not the knee he'll probably have a series of hammys or back related hammys which will cost him games and momentum.

I still expect him to be a solid contributor in 2014 onwards.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Heath and Harry were probably more some what "worked out" by the opposition in 2012 and need to overcome it which i think is more Buckleys job to sort out. No reason why they will be sliders in 13.

The other mentioned are coming to the end of their football careers so i agree. Maxwell Ball Didak and Johnson will never be as good as they were in the prime of their careers. That said Ball has plenty to offer in 13 as his best was so good.

 

[Markfs]

Guess the player....
1. Has averaged 10 kicks a game over the last three years
2. Has averaged between 5.5 and 7 handballs over the last three years with 2011 being slightly higher in that area
3. Averaged 2.4 tackles in 2010 and last year but dropped a little t0 1.8 in 2011.

Top 5 in the League for bouncing the ball in 2010 and 2011, there appears to be a change in focus for this player in 2012 where he was just outside the top 5 rebounders from defence.

Who am I?

 

[Markfs]

Heath and Harry were probably more some what "worked out" by the opposition in 2012 and need to overcome it which i think is more Buckleys job to sort out. No reason why they will be sliders in 13.

.

I disagree with you totally with Heath Shaw. This year, he is going to be totally worked out by the opposition and he is just about to slide off the map. I do believe that he has already set sail. Just look at the facts, Last year, he was the top rebounder and bouncer of the ball, which equates to my uneducated non-football brain, as the best attacking defender in the league. Of course, he HAS to slide. He's been too ****ing good.

 

[forwardflanker]

Heat Shaw didn't get worked out, it was just that the opposition were able to put more work into him. The easiest solution to this is to find more players who can play his role. Last year, with Ben Johnson injured all year and O'Brien out of form he was probably viewed by opposition sides as the only running half back worthy of any attention. Compare this to Hawthorn who had Birchall, Guerra, Burgoyne, Gibson, Suckling + mids who rotate there. You can't tag them all and therein lies one of the key differences between their ball movement and our last season. If Heath Shaw gets shut down then O'Brien, Maxwell, Toovey end up having to move the ball from down back. If Birchall gets shut down, then they still have Burgoyne, Guerra etc. One group have absolutely elite disposal, the other group is average at best.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Heat Shaw didn't get worked out, it was just that the opposition were able to put more work into him.

Heat Shaw didn't get worked out, it was just that the opposition were able to put more work into him. The easiest solution to this is to find more players who can play his role. Last year, with Ben Johnson injured all year and O'Brien out of form he was probably viewed by opposition sides as the only running half back worthy of any attention. Compare this to Hawthorn who had Birchall, Guerra, Burgoyne, Gibson, Suckling + mids who rotate there. You can't tag them all and therein lies one of the key differences between their ball movement and our last season. If Heath Shaw gets shut down then O'Brien, Maxwell, Toovey end up having to move the ball from down back. If Birchall gets shut down, then they still have Burgoyne, Guerra etc. One group have absolutely elite disposal, the other group is average at best.

As I said it's up to Buckley to change that. If Shaw is being nullified then Bucks needs to have a plan in place for the forward tagger. More and more teams were doing the same thing to Shaw so I believe they did work him out.

 

[Markfs]

Heat Shaw didn't get worked out, it was just that the opposition were able to put more work into him.


As I said it's up to Buckley to change that. If Shaw is being nullified then Bucks needs to have a plan in place for the forward tagger. More and more teams were doing the same thing to Shaw so I believe they did work him out.

Yes you're absolutely right. If Shaw tops the attacking defenders figures for last year, it's up to Buckley to try to find way that he doesnt slide to number 2. I dont know how he's going to do it but he deserves a lot of attention. And you're right about other teams working him out. They were letting him get the ball and then run with it and deliver it into the forward line. It was there that they'd pounce....they would force the Pie forwards to turnover the ball and then they would quickly move the ball back into attack before Shaw got himself reset back into position. Very cunning strategy. This meant that Shaw managed to top figures on bouncing the ball and rebounds but the opposition teams only had to get the ball inside their 50 double the amount of times than if Shaw wasnt there. I believe a lot of sides gave up that strategy and then took up a strategy of waiting until Shaw was sliding.... so then it was easlier to get the ball inside their 50. So if Shaw slides like you're predicting, we should see other teams using this strategy...

 

[millsy29gopies]

Didak has already slid IMO. Last year when he did string games together he barely had an impact apart from rare moments of magic. Hope he get back up there for his final season but I'm not sure he can.

 

[Bianconerri]

Guess the player....
1. Has averaged 10 kicks a game over the last three years
2. Has averaged between 5.5 and 7 handballs over the last three years with 2011 being slightly higher in that area
3. Averaged 2.4 tackles in 2010 and last year but dropped a little t0 1.8 in 2011.

Top 5 in the League for bouncing the ball in 2010 and 2011, there appears to be a change in focus for this player in 2012 where he was just outside the top 5 rebounders from defence.

Who am I?

Harry O !

 

[ipswichpies]

Ok we have the players who some think may be sliders but what about the other side of the coin.
The players whose output may be greater than last season,with some of the posts I have read recently we may as well not turn up next season.
Can nobody see any of our players stepping it up next season,I hope to god none of our players follow this board and see how little faith we have in them as a collective unit.

Unless it has escaped anybodies notice we have a terrific list which is quite capable of matching it with anyone, but no since Wilson started with her rubbish we have been on back foot constantly.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Ok we have the players who some think may be sliders but what about the other side of the coin.
The players whose output may be greater than last season,with some of the posts I have read recently we may as well not turn up next season.
Can nobody see any of our players stepping it up next season,I hope to god none of our players follow this board and see how little faith we have in them as a collective unit.

Unless it has escaped anybodies notice we have a terrific list which is quite capable of matching it with anyone, but no since Wilson started with her rubbish we have been on back foot constantly.

Ahem, cough......

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ely-to-have-a-breakout-season-in-2013.984027/

 

[ipswichpies]

Ahem, cough......

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ely-to-have-a-breakout-season-in-2013.984027/

Maybe it only seem,s like doom and gloom,the club had a terrific draft period but since then what with Wilson spewing her bile and this latest episode with Marley Williams we have scarcely had a positive story about the club.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

It's just the slow part of the year & yes a couple of negative articles can make it seem worse than it is.

But I'm still stoked about our trade & FA period!

 

[Markfs]

Harry O !

yessssssss....... winner of picking the slider of 2013... lets hope his figures "slide" to similar levels next year and for several years after...

 

[Markfs]

Ok we have the players who some think may be sliders but what about the other side of the coin.
The players whose output may be greater than last season,with some of the posts I have read recently we may as well not turn up next season.
Can nobody see any of our players stepping it up next season,I hope to god none of our players follow this board and see how little faith we have in them as a collective unit.

Unless it has escaped anybodies notice we have a terrific list which is quite capable of matching it with anyone, but no since Wilson started with her rubbish we have been on back foot constantly.

Actually, we have two distinct groups.... the first is a group of players doing everything to win a premiership next year. I still include Marley in that group because I believe that a player is innocent until proven otherwise..

The other group have proven themselves to be short-term thinkers who only know how to support a team when everything is going perfectly. I have no idea how this group would have sustained themselves during the period between 1958 and 1990. If they were old enough to be around at that time, I would have hoped that they would have lost their way and picked another team to follow......such is the shallowness of what they bring to the club. I can only hope that one day they will stop posting in this forum and be replaced with people who have a little more backbone...

As for what particular journalists write, who gives a flying ****... I want to see the Pies win a premiership. It aint a popularity contest judged by journalists...

btw...no one has explained why the hell Harry O is sliding. I provided some figures that would suggest otherwise, but one pea-brain can put "imo" and its a done deal

 

[ipswichpies]

Actually, we have two distinct groups.... the first is a group of players doing everything to win a premiership next year. I still include Marley in that group because I believe that a player is innocent until proven otherwise..

The other group have proven themselves to be short-term thinkers who only know how to support a team when everything is going perfectly. I have no idea how this group would have sustained themselves during the period between 1958 and 1990. If they were old enough to be around at that time, I would have hoped that they would have lost their way and picked another team to follow......such is the shallowness of what they bring to the club. I can only hope that one day they will stop posting in this forum and be replaced with people who have a little more backbone...

As for what particular journalists write, who gives a flying ****... I want to see the Pies win a premiership. It aint a popularity contest judged by journalists...

I just made my 1st comment About Williams and like you I am happy for him the same as anybody to have the presumption of innocence unless proven otherwise.

Like you I am a long time Pies fan and have more than my fair share of bad memories what Pies fan does,nt,on Wilson the only thing I worry about is her focusing on us and constant pressure it brings.

 

[Markfs]

I just made my 1st comment About Williams and like you I am happy for him the same as anybody to have the presumption of innocence unless proven otherwise.

Like you I am a long time Pies fan and have more than my fair share of bad memories what Pies fan does,nt,on Wilson the only thing I worry about is her focusing on us and constant pressure it brings.

She writes about Collingwood so that Pies fans read her articles. It makes her relevant. Everytime a Collingwood fan moans about it, its money in her bank account. She is there to sell newspapers.

Eddie is an elected official of the Collingwood football club. He is voted in by the members. His opinion is important and, unless he asks me to become a catholic, I will agree with just about anything he says

btw.. if you're a long standing fan, you will know the one thing that stuffed us up during the 60s, 70s and 80s...

 

[76woodenspooners]

Hang on - there's a bit of confusion going on here.

Yes, agreed, we do have a great list. And yes, we have had a great recruiting period. I don't think anybody is suggesting any different.

But, unfortunately, we're only allowed to put 22 men on the field at any one time.

If Macaffer comes back like Lazarus and demands selection, who's he going to replace in the team?
If Paine continues his good development and becomes best 22, who's he going to replace?
If Keefe picks up exactly where he left off, who's he going to replace?
Etc...

In 2010 we had players like Lockyer and O'Bree slide. And we played first year lads like Beams and Sidebottom, and a promoted rookie named Blair. And in the Grand Final Replay we replaced Leon "Magic" Davis with Tyson "Sickboy" Goldsack.

There's nothing wrong with players sliding if it's caused by other players working hard to overtake them. It's the circle of life

And just because a player slides, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not improving - it could simply mean that they're improving less than the players around them. And it doesn't mean the team is doing badly.

Wouldn't mind seeing Beams, Pendles, Swan and co slide if it means that they're simply overtaken by better players; and that it leads to winning a Premiership.

 

[Markfs]

This has widened the debate....

some players slide up....but some slide down...

some slide fast and some slide slow..

slip sliding away...slip sliding away.....the nearer your destination is, the more it's slip sliding away...

 

[loki04]

Hang on - there's a bit of confusion going on here.

Yes, agreed, we do have a great list. And yes, we have had a great recruiting period. I don't think anybody is suggesting any different.

But, unfortunately, we're only allowed to put 22 men on the field at any one time.

If Macaffer comes back like Lazarus and demands selection, who's he going to replace in the team?
If Paine continues his good development and becomes best 22, who's he going to replace?
If Keefe picks up exactly where he left off, who's he going to replace?
Etc...

In 2010 we had players like Lockyer and O'Bree slide. And we played first year lads like Beams and Sidebottom, and a promoted rookie named Blair. And in the Grand Final Replay we replaced Leon "Magic" Davis with Tyson "Sickboy" Goldsack.

There's nothing wrong with players sliding if it's caused by other players working hard to overtake them. It's the circle of life

And just because a player slides, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not improving - it could simply mean that they're improving less than the players around them. And it doesn't mean the team is doing badly.

Wouldn't mind seeing Beams, Pendles, Swan and co slide if it means that they're simply overtaken by better players; and that it leads to winning a Premiership.

People talk as if the side can't improve and we went 22 - 0 then smashed the finals and are premiers, we have major improvement in us and it's more then likely not going to be from a different 22 then 2012 (Well kind of obvious since Dawes/Wellers out in Lynch Young and Russell) but you get my point.

Would like to see more players held accountable for poor form, Buckley in 2012 is trending a bit like MM where he plays players far too much who are out of form or are inconsistent with their form going off past history with some players. No poor excuses about who comes in if it has to be a jnr for even a few games so be it, send a message not just to said player but everyone perform or play 2nds captain included hopefully.