Opinion So What Is Player Development?

[thylacine60]

I don't think we have been so great at this in the past. But in saying that, what is it we haven't been so great at? Does it start with selection of our youngsters? I'm thinking yes. What else?

• nutrition & health/fitness
• home-life & lifestyle
• psych/emotional issues
• the fine line between pushing forward & pulling back
• tolerating failure/validating successes
• understanding one template doesn't fit all
• mentoring
• motivation

What do you think we do well, do less well? Go your hardest.

 

[zeeCFC]

I believe it's an old wooden ship.

 

[zeeCFC]

I don't think we have been so great at this in the past. But in saying that, what is it we haven't been so great at? Does it start with selection of our youngsters? I'm thinking yes. What else?

• nutrition & health/fitness
• home-life & lifestyle
• psych/emotional issues
• the fine line between pushing forward & pulling back
• tolerating failure/validating successes
• understanding one template doesn't fit all
• mentoring
• motivation

What do you think we do well, do less well? Go your hardest.

For me the most important aspect is getting their bodies AFL ready and fitting them into our style of play while working on their deficiencies.

 

[Blue since 72]

I believe it's an old wooden ship.

No, that was diversity.

 

[Franc de Borges]

To me player development = improving a player to the extent that they can play senior football within the clubs system, whether recruited from a rival or junior league.

Now obviously selecting the right player is a big part of this, but clearly we've been lacking in this area for a while, most clearly evidenced not by the amount of picks we've wasted, but the supposedly good picks that have yet to flourish fully (Gibbs) when compared to those at other sides.

I don't think changing coaches regularly (Gibbs and Murphy are on their third already) assists either. Collingwood had a long period of continuity before it all blossomed.

 

[thylacine60]

To me player development = improving a player to the extent that they can play senior football within the clubs system, whether recruited from a rival or junior league.

Now obviously selecting the right player is a big part of this, but clearly we've been lacking in this area for a while, most clearly evidenced not by the amount of picks we've wasted, but the supposedly good picks that have yet to flourish fully (Gibbs) when compared to those at other sides.

I don't think changing coaches regularly (Gibbs and Murphy are on their third already) assists either. Collingwood had a long period of continuity before it all blossomed.

Great point.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

Hard one to quantify but I worked with a guy whose son plays for one of the interstate teams. During his junior days he became mates with an interstate player who is now at Carlton. He told me that there was a huge difference in the way he was treated as a parent and included into that teams culture than the father of the Carlton boy. He was flown across on a regular basis to see his son and said their program was a lot better and more inclusive than Carlton's. I always take this sort of stuff with a grain of salt as some people have an axe to grind but maybe we do not induct our interstate boys as well as other clubs?

 

[ESKIE]

I think mentoring / leadership , No knock on Judd or Murphy, but those around them, we hear things like they're a quiet group, they're humble.

Young guys look up to their senior players, sets the tone, leadership amongst the group has been a problem for awhile, now it maybe be different internaly, but from the outside looking in...

 

[CaptainCharisma]

We're definitely behind a fair few clubs in the "player development" department.

Clubs like Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney and even Collingwood (on the surface anyway) seem to have turned over their list as much as us but still seem to contend in the Top 4/6 positions by developing their younger players and having them ready for AFL football as well as better decisions at the trade table.

I will look further into this to try to back up my opinion with some facts...

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

I don't think we have been so great at this in the past. But in saying that, what is it we haven't been so great at? Does it start with selection of our youngsters? I'm thinking yes. What else?

• nutrition & health/fitness
• home-life & lifestyle
• psych/emotional issues
• the fine line between pushing forward & pulling back
• tolerating failure/validating successes
• understanding one template doesn't fit all
• mentoring
• motivation

What do you think we do well, do less well? Go your hardest.

This is going back a while but the decision to have Angwin and Norman live together should be seen as a benchmark for future decisions!!

 

[thylacine60]

Facts?

 

[Blue since 72]

Reckon it started one step further back in a few cases, that being recruitment.

However, once at the club:

1. There appeared to be a disconnect between the senior side and the VFL side which is really the development point in terms of the footballing piece. (Where young players cut their teeth and get football ready for the big time)

2. The previous coach tended to go to the same well of regulars to win games until injuries really forced his hand into playing the younger guys. Ratts seemed reluctant to back the younger players for a number of games until he had no choice.

TBH I really think Ratts was under immense pressure his entire tenure as an unproven coach and probably had both eyes on the win/loss ratio to the detriment of player development. We've already seen a number of things change since Mick has come in and I guarantee it has everything to do with his cred.

The politics at play didn't aid Ratten at all whereas Mick will get what he wants when he wants and structurally at least this will aid player development.

Further more Mick's force of personality will ensure the players buy in and the ones that don't will know about it.

In summary the club appeared fractured and divisive and everyone wasn't pulling in the same direction. It looked like it just expected results to come (like the old days).

In terms of developing players going forward I think we'll see a more decisive decision process where the players that buy into the vision will be nurtured via club personal and resources and given opportunity to extend themselves and those who don't will exit the club far sooner than in the past.

 

[one_twelve112]

For me development and recruitment are two different kettle of fish. We have been poor at both over the past decade hence our lack of success. It all comes down to the personnel employed by the club, I think we may now be finally on the right track.

 

[ESKIE]

Reckon it started one step further back in a few cases, that being recruitment.

However, once at the club:

1. There appeared to be a disconnect between the senior side and the VFL side which is really the development point in terms of the footballing piece. (Where young players cut their teeth and get football ready for the big time)

2. The previous coach tended to go to the same well of regulars to win games until injuries really forced his hand into playing the younger guys. Ratts seemed reluctant to back the younger players for a number of games until he had no choice.

TBH I really think Ratts was under immense pressure his entire tenure as an unproven coach and probably had both eyes on the win/loss ratio to the detriment of player development. We've already seen a number of things change since Mick has come in and I guarantee it has everything to do with his cred.

The politics at play didn't aid Ratten at all whereas Mick will get what he wants when he wants and structurally at least this will aid player development.

Further more Mick's force of personality will ensure the players buy in and the ones that don't will know about it.

In summary the club appeared fractured and divisive and everyone wasn't pulling in the same direction. It looked like it just expected results to come (like the old days).

In terms of developing players going forward I think we'll see a more decisive decision process where the players that buy into the vision will be nurtured via club personal and resources and given opportunity to extend themselves and those who don't will exit the club far sooner than in the past.

Yeh this too, well put

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I know that this is something that the club is working towards improving. They've created a relationship with the hotel I work for where we run cooking classes for the younger kids, with a few of the senior players in attendance each class. The idea is to teach them how to cook for themselves, making nutritional food and not junk, as well as a team building tool.

When I was speaking to the club reps about it they said that they'd identified that the new recruits weren't as supported as they should be when transitioning into the team, so it's a positive step forward.

 

[SBYM]

Reckon it started one step further back in a few cases, that being recruitment.

However, once at the club:

1. There appeared to be a disconnect between the senior side and the VFL side which is really the development point in terms of the footballing piece. (Where young players cut their teeth and get football ready for the big time)

This is it for mine.

Can someone with more knowledge please inform me whether or not the Northern Blues/CFC relationship is geared towards preparing the senior listed players specifically for senior football, or is there some trade off between what MM wants and what the NB need to do to get a win?

If not, sayonara.

I understand there are differences between the stand alone VFL teams and the aligned teams, would just like a clearer picture of what ours is.

Nutrition/recovery/conditioning etc….in this day and age I reckon almost all clubs are vey close to one another (Melb being an exception, my opinion)…therefore I think the way the lads that aren't playing seniors are handled is so bloody important.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Once our players were brought into the club they held back. Our club was easy to get games at 5 years ago and before that. Ratts and co made it to easy for them. MM is changing this and you can already see improvement although it has been little.

Mick isn't a great coach because he is good in the box (although he is very good), he's a great coach because he gets the most out of limited players and develops the ones with oodles of talent.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

Ok, just from a quick search:

Players used 2006 that played in 2013 (yet to find full list, players not used);

Carlton - 7 - Walker, Murphy, Simpson, Betts, Scotland, Waite, Carrazzo
Sydney - 7 - McVeigh, O'Keefe, Malceski, J. Bolton, Richards, Goodes, Grundy

Obviously I would like to add Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood to this and look into the list changes further, but on the surface Sydney have managed to turn over 80% of a premiership list and win another flag 6 years later and are in contention for the 2014 flag.

As much as the Buddy saga raised eyebrows, its a testament to their player development to get so many players AFL ready in that space of time to be competing for flags again as well as outstanding list management.

 

[SBYM]

I feel a bit uncomfortable saying this, especially since I barely drink, but I hope the boys get together and get on the lash a bit when they can.

I know it's juvenile, and often causes trouble, but with a modicum of sensibility I have no doubt the negatives can be avoided and the positive effects on the team can be significant…things like a sense of community, belonging, mateship..all that crap a cynical prick like me looks down upon, but which can reap rewards when it comes to putting it all on the line when you put on the jumper.

Who was it that picked Sticks up one night in a limo and dragged him out of bed? By no means am I advocating mid-week piss-ups, however, I bet the young Sticks would have laid down in traffic for those blokes, as would they for him.

My point…player development is also about building a team that craves success TOGETHER. I'd much prefer they were all into Dungeons & Dragons instead, but they're young men, and young men invariably want to act like gooses (WITHIN REASON), and I reckon the bonding a session with your mates can nurture is priceless.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I don't think we have been so great at this in the past. But in saying that, what is it we haven't been so great at? Does it start with selection of our youngsters? I'm thinking yes. What else?

• nutrition & health/fitness
• home-life & lifestyle
• psych/emotional issues
• the fine line between pushing forward & pulling back
• tolerating failure/validating successes
• understanding one template doesn't fit all
• mentoring
• motivation

What do you think we do well, do less well? Go your hardest.

One thing missing from this list is; allowing players to play in the position most suited to them and their attributes.

Mick has a great record and is obiously a pretty good coach in most ways, but one thing that I think might let him down is his ego. I'll cite 2 examples:

1. Andrew Walker: I know he had a pretty good year off the half back flank and many here think that he was a revelation. But consider, how many games did we lose this year for the want of having a player who is accurate in front of goals? Yes, we might have lost a little down back, but the change in structure and effectiveness in the forward line might have been worth it.
2. Chris Yarran: When moved to the HBF, Yarran was a revelation. He was given license to run and create and seemed to revel in it. Along comes Mick and moves him back into the "three amigo" forward structure that hadn't worked previously and didn't work at all this year.

Why make these changes? Was it just because the original moves were seen as Ratten's "masterstrokes" and Mick wanted to be seen to be "putting his stamp on the team"? When it became clear that things weren't working with this arrangement, why not switch back?

Obviously, this isn't an issue that's exclusive to Mick. Both Ratten and Mick have steadfastly refused to put Bryce in the middle and ****ing leave him there! They've both seen him as a Mr Fixit, when his best contribution to the side has almost invariably come when he's played in the middle (Thy will probably disagree, but after Bryce's latter part of 2013, I think few others would).

I mentioned Hammer in the thread dedicated to him, so I'm not going through that again. Although I should say that I was originally an advocate of trying him as a forward too, but once it was obvious that he was more ruckman than forward (and always would be), why didn't the club give him more rucktime?

Having said all that, there seems to be a tendency around here to dismiss the players who have developed while at Carlton:

1. Jarrad Waite - went from being a poor disposal half-effective back flanker to one of the most effective, agile and dangerous forwards in the game (shame he doesn't get on the park more)
2. Andrew Carrazzo - from tagger with poor disposal to key element of the midfield.
3. Ed Curnow - on track to do the same as Carrots.
4. Dennis Armfield - while not a star, Dennis has steadily improved during his time at the club.
5. Lachie Henderson - looked like a deer in headlights at CHF when he first arrived, was moved to the backline, gained confidence, and now is very effective at both ends.
6. Jeffrey Garlett - while not having developed too much physically while at the club, he has improved his tackling technique and his tank (even though we'd all like both to be even better).
7. Simmo - just keeps evolving and finding ways to be a great contributor.
8. Kane Lucas - there's no doubt that 2013 was his best year to date and it's very likely that in 2014 he'll improve again.

Add to that list the 3 No. 1's and Heath Scotland, who are all better now than they were when they arrived at the club and you have half a team of 22 who have all "developed" while at Carlton. Not exactly a terrible record.

 

[Dramoth]

Player development is a secondary part of personal development. It's about improving the quality of the person outside of football rather than just concentrating on trying to develop their skills and abilities as players.

In the past Carlton has had a good record of developing guys who go on after football and become quite good out in the business world. We have had our fair share of driven personalities who have been successful in business and that drive also pushed them as footballers. Looking at the current group, there is only going to be one or two of these guys who will go on to be truly successful leaders in business and commerce or in politics.

Getting the guys learning how to cook... great step forward in team building and it starts setting the young guys up for getting out on their own.

If I was at the club, I would be getting in Fitzpatrick and Harry Madden to talk about setting themselves up now for life after football.

 

[Koutafidamidis]

Reckon it started one step further back in a few cases, that being recruitment.

However, once at the club:

1. There appeared to be a disconnect between the senior side and the VFL side which is really the development point in terms of the footballing piece. (Where young players cut their teeth and get football ready for the big time)

2. The previous coach tended to go to the same well of regulars to win games until injuries really forced his hand into playing the younger guys. Ratts seemed reluctant to back the younger players for a number of games until he had no choice.

TBH I really think Ratts was under immense pressure his entire tenure as an unproven coach and probably had both eyes on the win/loss ratio to the detriment of player development. We've already seen a number of things change since Mick has come in and I guarantee it has everything to do with his cred.

The politics at play didn't aid Ratten at all whereas Mick will get what he wants when he wants and structurally at least this will aid player development.

Further more Mick's force of personality will ensure the players buy in and the ones that don't will know about it.

In summary the club appeared fractured and divisive and everyone wasn't pulling in the same direction. It looked like it just expected results to come (like the old days).

In terms of developing players going forward I think we'll see a more decisive decision process where the players that buy into the vision will be nurtured via club personal and resources and given opportunity to extend themselves and those who don't will exit the club far sooner than in the past.

What a wonderful , expansive and at the same time concise post!

I'm impressed, well said

 

[thylacine60]

Terrific thread and it's a shame it can't last for too long.

Don't recall at looking forward to so many considered opinions before.

Nice work to one and all. ...................O.K. and in particular to the O.P.

?

 

[SBYM]

BF frowns upon reasoned and rational discussion.

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

Great thread!

I think that as with any development, the individual achieves it for themselves; they are not developed as such. Maybe it is just semantics, but I think it is an important point. What we are really trying to do is to create a physical, personal, psychological environment around them that helps them to achieve that. This is a fundamental point and doesn't matter if you are running a football club or a pizza shop.

It is a challenge to identify the people that fit best with any work-related team. It is then a real challenge to determine the environment that will best suit them to develop to their greatest capacity. Some people need to talk every day, have a minute by minute detailed plan, constant feedback, etc, others need almost toatl freedom. some need to be reined in, others encouraged to back themselves, knowing that occasional failure will not see them on the chopping block.

An aspect of Mick's coaching that I like is that he seems to have a deep humanity and sense of broader perspective to the team than some coaches appear to have. True, on game day he can be a hard and focused bastard (which is also a good thing!), but ultimately he knows that footy is a game, even though it is also a profession. I think that he sees his role as development of the team, not only for a game, but also for other aspects of life. Addressing all these aspects helps them to play better footy.

On this foundation, I think that all the rest follows...skill development, fitness, strength, speed, strategy, team plans/ structure, etc. We often only focus on this aspect of player development.

Another aspect of development that we sometimes neglect to consider in detail is dealing with injury. Injury is a fundamental part of the game, and yet we as outsiders seem to have this very simplest view of how it should all unfold. Knee injury equal x number of weeks, etc. Anyone that is sick or injured requires very careful attention and planned rehabilitation. This is a part of development. Again, it must be tailored for the individual and is much an art as it is a science. It is also a very vulnerable time for young professionals, and if not managed well, can really undermine all the other aspects of development.