solly,cook & mcmannus

[Kenny_01]

Crowley is a lot better than Headland.

Having said that,

Headland's skills are very good, especially by foot. When he is playing well, his kicking is first class and he is a very good player.

Headland tends to disappear in the tough games which is my concern on him. I think Crowley will be one of our best players in the short and long term.

 

[theGav56]

I also think Crowley is a fantastic player. Just love the way that he has turned himself around. Great story.

 

[Brumbies]

The thing is every team needs outside players (seagulls) if you dont have them you wont win. Everyone bags him for playing good when team is winning and being crap when we are losing but thats what happens to outside players. If ya guys arnt getting out at clearances your effectiveness will drop same with small forwards.

 

[dominguez]

So, just checking, a skill-less player who would not even make our best 22, mananged to fool everyone else and get in the state team, according to you.

He can clearly sell the dummy too then. Yet another skill to his armoury!

What is the criteria that you think the state team selectors used to stuff it up so badly in your eyes?

Obviously the selectors share your opinion that Des is a very good footballer. I disagree and think that having someone with such a poor work ethic is wasting a spot in our side. Anyone who goes missing in big games shouldn't be in our best 22. Would Headland get a game at Sydney or West Coast?

Bowden, Didak and McDonald were in the AA side, but wouldn't even come close to getting a game if international football was possible.

 

[nesski47]

I think both Macca and Cook wont start the year in the 22, and if we're successful, will struggle to break in. I think Macca will get his 5 games to get to 200, but if he gets dropped after that its curtains. I don't think Cook will reach 200.

Will be interesting to see how Solomon goes, I don't think he's that bad, he's just not really suited to being a key defender which is what he had to try and do last season.

not suited to being a key defender?! excepting his 2006 season he can play big or small. has done a couple of outstanding jobs on Richo who gives away about 8cm. if you use him, and you should, he'll be a great asset to the team.

 

[nesski47]

Solomon was my favourite player at the Bombers. Some supporters didn't like his lapses in discipline etc, however you could never doubt for a second that the guy was busting his guts in every game he played!

Loves a bit of rough stuff and I think will have a good season next year if he can slim down a bit and his knee doesn't trouble him too much.

In 2005, he had fluid drained from his knee after almost every match and could barely train, yet he still managed to player something like 18 games - in reality, should have had an operation at the start of the season, but for some reason the coaching panel thought we were a shot at finals....

This year again he came back from injury too quickly... With the support he will get in the Dockers side, he should be able to get back to full fitness and not play injured.

i agree wholeheartedly. my fav as well, even sponsored him for a few years. the respect, or lack thereof, shown to him by essendon was disgraceful. but that, they say, is freo's gain. he'll put his heart, and more importantly his body, on the line and give 110% the whole time. though it pains me to see him go, i still look forward to watching him play, hopefully successfuly and at a successful club

 

[nesski47]

When Solly got reported this year for giving Cousins a decent hip and shoulder, I was surprised to learn that he has a "good record" at the tribunal. I don't think he's been suspended for more the 5 years (if at all)...

His charge against Cousins was thrown out too... I guess he knows how to dish out the rough stuff without getting suspended...

he's undisciplined in that he gives away silly free's but apart from the odd wrestling charge and a melee here and there, he doesn't get into too much troublei.

 

[Cheetah]

So, just checking, a skill-less player who would not even make our best 22, mananged to fool everyone else and get in the state team, according to you.

He can clearly sell the dummy too then. Yet another skill to his armoury!

What is the criteria that you think the state team selectors used to stuff it up so badly in your eyes?

Spot on Gav! I'm getting sick of constantly having to defend him. He had a really good home and away season and a dissapointing finals series by his own standards, but give the guy a break. He is an integral part of our future success and will bouce back and have a fantastic 2007.

 

[Cheetah]

i agree wholeheartedly. my fav as well, even sponsored him for a few years. the respect, or lack thereof, shown to him by essendon was disgraceful. but that, they say, is freo's gain. he'll put his heart, and more importantly his body, on the line and give 110% the whole time. though it pains me to see him go, i still look forward to watching him play, hopefully successfuly and at a successful club

I agree and firmly believe your loss is very much our gain. I'm looking forward to having him in purple and believe time may reveal him to be the bargain pick up of trade week.

 

[theGav56]

Obviously the selectors share your opinion that Des is a very good footballer. I disagree and think that having someone with such a poor work ethic is wasting a spot in our side. Anyone who goes missing in big games shouldn't be in our best 22. Would Headland get a game at Sydney or West Coast?

Bowden, Didak and McDonald were in the AA side, but wouldn't even come close to getting a game if international football was possible.

Give it a rest. Given that Sydney and West Coast are "better than us" by definition of finishing higher on the ladder, there should be quite a few players (at least 11) in our best 22 who would not get a game with them. So by that criteria, he isn't in our best 11. Which I agree with.

International game? Now you're talking about being in the best 22 players in the country. Which I agree with.

Dom, your lack of perspective has now blown right out.

 

[dominguez]

My point is that west coast and Sydney have a side that's built for big games and finals. That's why Sampi, Gardiner and Staker didn't play this time around, west coast learnt their lesson from '05 about carrying guys that go missing in finals. We traded Medhurst, which was the right thing to do because he goes missing too often. Des is the same, he'll play well against bottom 8 sides but goes missing in big games, and is taking up a valuable place in the 22.

My point about Bowden, Didak and McDonald was to illustrate that being an AA doesn't mean you are in the best 22 in the country, just like Headlands selection doesn't mean he would run out in the black and gold.

 

[theGav56]

My point is that west coast and Sydney have a side that's built for big games and finals. That's why Sampi, Gardiner and Staker didn't play this time around, west coast learnt their lesson from '05 about carrying guys that go missing in finals.

Gardiner is fine in finals from what I recall, and at their age I wouldn't want to brand Staker or Sampi as doing that either. Just not a reasonable call. They weren't selected because they had better options. If they didn't have better options then they would be selected. Same goes with Des or any other player at Fremantle.

Reality is you bagged Des long before the finals, and the stats and the state selectors do not back you up. Will be interesting to see where he came in the club awards this year, but it certainly would be an acceptable rating. Your opinion is based on very thin evidence. Like most players are from time to time, he would be very aware (if we get to play finals again next year) that if he does not perform, then he will slip down the list. Your incessant carping is delusional, and reminds me of the vehement attacks some posters were making on Connolly. He played an important role for the team this year.

 

[dominguez]

Headland's first 3 years for the club were very disappointing. A lot of people said that he had turned the corner this year, so I looked forward to seeing how he would perform in September. He was terrible, and continues to go missing in big games.

He should have to earn his spot in the side after playing so poorly in the finals, instead of automatically getting a free run like he has because he is a big name on a big salary.

Who do you drop from the 22 that lost to Sydney for Hasleby, Grover, Tarrant and Solomon? Headland should be the first name crossed off IMHO.

The criticism of Connolly from 2004 until midway through 2006 was warranted because the side was under performing. Just like the criticism of Headland is warranted when he underperforms, which is way too often considering he is talented and on good money.

 

[Ripper]

Geez dom . when you get a set , you get a set.

Here is a link to the player win/loss table

http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/playerwins.php?t1=7&yrfm=2003&yrto=2006


It doesn't matter how you sort it it will tell you that the team has a better %age win /loss and better % age points for/against with Des in it than the average since 2003 or in any single year.

And in the PF his opponent the irishman had a bigger shocker than Des.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/T/Tadhg_Kennelly.html

 

[Roundhouse]

Headland's first 3 years for the club were very disappointing. A lot of people said that he had turned the corner this year, so I looked forward to seeing how he would perform in September. He was terrible, and continues to go missing in big games.

He should have to earn his spot in the side after playing so poorly in the finals, instead of automatically getting a free run like he has because he is a big name on a big salary.

Who do you drop from the 22 that lost to Sydney for Hasleby, Grover, Tarrant and Solomon? Headland should be the first name crossed off IMHO.

The criticism of Connolly from 2004 until midway through 2006 was warranted because the side was under performing. Just like the criticism of Headland is warranted when he underperforms, which is way too often considering he is talented and on good money.

I truly hope that Des does enough next year to change your opinion of him as a player Dom. Unfortunatley I can't see that happening given that he earnt state of origin selection this year by playing good footy, and you still don't rate him highly enough to be in our best 22.

If you are caning him because of his "terrible" game in the Prelim, I suggest you look at the tape again. He didn't get many possessions, but neither did his opponent. I'll admit it was a poor game but it's hardly cause for delisting him.

To suggest he has never played well in any final is clutching at straws a bit too. I seem to recall him putting in some good performances in finals for Brissie a few years back. Last year was the first since Des came to Freo that he hasn't been restricted by foot and ankle problems, and he finally started to show the things he was capable of. It's a pity you can't give him any credit for it.

 

[dominguez]

I'm not saying he should be delisted, but I do think he needs to spend atleast a month at the lions before being considered for afl selection.

I'm not judging him on one poor final, he had 3 very bad finals. Schammer was terrible against the crows and needed to prove himself against Melbourne and he did. Pavlich was handy without standing out in the first two weeks and needed to play really well if he is to be considered among the likes of Judd, Hall, Brown, Voss etc and he did. Headland had 3 poor finals and should spend time at Subiaco to find some form and hunger.

His finals performances at the lions are irrelevent. If Peter Bell had 3 shocking finals I'd be getting stuck into him even though he played well for the roos. But Belly stood up like the champion he is, and Headland never will be.

Like I said, find 4 guys to drop from the side that played in the prelim for Hasleby, Grover, Solomon and Tarrant.

I'm surprised it took you so long to weigh in ripper.

 

[dominguez]

http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/playerwins.php?t1=7&yrfm=2003&yrto=2006


It doesn't matter how you sort it it will tell you that the team has a better %age win /loss and better % age points for/against with Des in it than the average since 2003 or in any single year.

Hahaha, look at the names near the top of that list, including Cunningham and Gilmore. Happy's another one who should be way down the batting order in 2007.

Hasleby, Farmer and JLo are in the bottom half of that list.

The mob up the road didn't lose a game with Hansen in the side this year, does that make him more important than Judd, Kerr and Cox?

 

[Ripper]

Hahaha, look at the names near the top of that list, including Cunningham and Gilmore. Happy's another one who should be way down the batting order in 2007.

Hasleby, Farmer and JLo are in the bottom half of that list.

The mob up the road didn't lose a game with Hansen in the side this year, does that make him more important than Judd, Kerr and Cox?

I thought you would have been smart enough to only consider those who had played plenty of games.

 

[Ripper]

I'm not saying he should be delisted, but I do think he needs to spend atleast a month at the lions before being considered for afl selection.

I'm not judging him on one poor final, he had 3 very bad finals. Schammer was terrible against the crows and needed to prove himself against Melbourne and he did. Pavlich was handy without standing out in the first two weeks and needed to play really well if he is to be considered among the likes of Judd, Hall, Brown, Voss etc and he did. Headland had 3 poor finals and should spend time at Subiaco to find some form and hunger.

His finals performances at the lions are irrelevent. If Peter Bell had 3 shocking finals I'd be getting stuck into him even though he played well for the roos. But Belly stood up like the champion he is, and Headland never will be.

Like I said, find 4 guys to drop from the side that played in the prelim for Hasleby, Grover, Solomon and Tarrant.

I'm surprised it took you so long to weigh in ripper.

You don't reckon that Des would be one of the priorities for an oppostion coach to stop?

I do.

After Pav & the Wiz , he would be next in line. because he can tear a game apart.

 

[dominguez]

I thought you would have been smart enough to only consider those who had played plenty of games.

That doesn't explain Haslby, who would be in our 3-4 most important players, being in the bottom half.

 

[dominguez]

You don't reckon that Des would be one of the priorities for an oppostion coach to stop?

I do.

After Pav & the Wiz , he would be next in line. because he can tear a game apart.

Get your hand off it, he'd be near the bottom of their list. Pavlich, Farmer, Murphy, Peake, Black, Hayden, JCarr, Bell, Sandilands, Mundy would all feature much more prominently in their planning. Even Medhurst, who was Mr Inconsistency, would have attracted more scrutiny from the opposition, because he is more likely to have a big game. When's the last time Des tore a game apart? The opposition quite often play their most attacking defender on Des (like Kennelly) because they know there is little chance of him hurting them. Worsfold would be stoked to get a Headland v Wirrpanda matchup.

 

[Roundhouse]

Get your hand off it, he'd be near the bottom of their list. Pavlich, Farmer, Murphy, Peake, Black, Hayden, JCarr, Bell, Sandilands, Mundy would all feature much more prominently in their planning. Even Medhurst, who was Mr Inconsistency, would have attracted more scrutiny from the opposition, because he is more likely to have a big game. When's the last time Des tore a game apart? The opposition quite often play their most attacking defender on Des (like Kennelly) because they know there is little chance of him hurting them. Worsfold would be stoked to get a Headland v Wirrpanda matchup.

So let me get this straight.

Headland can't tear a game apart (like he apparently should), so teams play their most attacking defender on him (like Kennelly in the Prelim).

But keeping Kennelly (the oppositions most attacking defender) quiet in the Prelim earns Des no praise in your eyes, because he didn't tear the game apart at the same time.

Given the fact that Kennelly is their most damaging defender, have you ever thought that Des may have taken Kennelly away from the ball on purpose, and sacfrificed getting the ball more himself, just to shut down their run a bit?

 

[Ripper]

The mob up the road didn't lose a game with Hansen in the side this year, does that make him more important than Judd, Kerr and Cox?

Doesn't make him more important than those blokes , but it does show that they are a better side with him in there.

 

[Ripper]

That doesn't explain Haslby, who would be in our 3-4 most important players, being in the bottom half.

It does show that Hase should not have played while injured as much as he has.

Hase has pretty much gone good game , bad game , good game.

 

[dominguez]

So let me get this straight.

Headland can't tear a game apart (like he apparently should), so teams play their most attacking defender on him (like Kennelly in the Prelim).

But keeping Kennelly (the oppositions most attacking defender) quiet in the Prelim earns Des no praise in your eyes, because he didn't tear the game apart at the same time.

Given the fact that Kennelly is their most damaging defender, have you ever thought that Des may have taken Kennelly away from the ball on purpose, and sacfrificed getting the ball more himself, just to shut down their run a bit?

Kennelly and Headland both had quiet games so I guess they broke even. Kennelly didn't have a very good finals series so he must have been out of form, I think some people are giving Des too much credit because playing tight isn't normally his strength. Lots of footy players have off days and it's not always due to their opponent. Some guys have the flu, others are carrying injuries, sometimes they are distracted by off field issues. Considering the number of bad games Headland has had he must have played on plenty of superstars. Like I said, I'm not criticising him for one quiet final, a lot of our team had one poor final, but Des had three.

$400,000pa is a lot to pay a defensive forward if that is his role, and I think Webster and Solomon are more suitable in that role. Atleast those two attack the footy with a bit of gusto.

It's interesting that so many people say that Headland should be in our best 22 but no one has provided 4 names to drop from the 22 from the prelim.