Autopsy Some interesting stats regarding B.Reid

[loki04]

Got this bit of info from another board I read, thanks to jtp of EBW for the work in finding this out.

http://www.voy.com/51976/249341.html

Reid has played 11 quarters this year as a forward for 9 goals (kicked none from defence), meaning he has a 3.27 per game goal average, making him #2 in the comp, just behind Josh Kennedy.

Also, for those 11 quarters, we have kicked 44 goals to 18.

With him down back (in those same games) we have conceded 24 goals and kicked 15.

We have lost 1/11 quarters, with the one stuff up in cruise control against Brisbane.

Just some random stats for your perusal!

I posted this into another reply in another thread but think it deserves it's own discussion point seeing as some firmly believe Reid is best for our current team as a defender and others don't.

A bit of stats to back up what our eyes already are telling us.

 

[tazzawazza]

Nice thread, but don't forget that he was a surprise rotation so other teams were not able to plan to tackle him, therefore he played on many mismatches, this is also why is usually kicks most of his goals early on. Also, don't forget that all those 9 goals have come against really mediocre teams such as Brisbane and Carlton. If he was to play a good team that would have prepared for him, I don't think these statistics would reflect on his performance.

And obviously Buckley is only wanting to use him as a Harry Taylor like player.

We can only find out if Buckey plays Reid in the forward line for a whole game against a good, prepared team. Personally I do want Reid forward because I ABSOLUTELY HATE the Cloke + 5 midgit forward set up, reminds be of the Sydney Swans and Barry hall depdence line up years ago

 

[TradeDraft]

We seem to play Better with Reid up Forward

 

[loki04]

Reid ran May a merry dance I have no doubt that if Reid started forward vs Suns he would of kicked 4+.

May is also turning into a decent player and is no mug these days.

But point taken, I believe Reid will still burn Taylor and co on a lead so as long as we put the ball to his advantage I don't see him drying up in a goal sense.

On top of this if Reid can draw 1 of Taylor or Lonergan etc away from Cloke then we double benefit and maybe that is where the true benefit lies, allowingCloke more freedom to do his thing but imo Reid is actually more accurate kick for goal.

 

[SnakePlisskin]

Reid can only go forward when we have cover for him down back .

 

[loki04]

Reid can only go forward when we have cover for him down back .

Which we do in Brown and Keeffe combo.

And we also did against GC as they had all their forwards out injured.

 

[mattys123]

Nice stats, but watch that average fall greatly with the more time he spends forward, it simply will.

I'm still not sold on the whole "Reid has to play forward" thing because when he goes forward, our already struggling defense gets worse, and there is no replacement, Keeffe isn't in the same league when it comes to intercept marks or the ability to rebound off half back, and Goldsack is an over rated defender who has played his best football up forward, all be it in a defensive forward role.

I'd like to see us try Keeffe up forward this week, what's to say he won't be close to as effective as Reid?

I simply can not see us beating any good side with Reid out of that backline.

 

[SnakePlisskin]

Which we do in Brown and Keeffe combo.

And we also did against GC as they had all their forwards out injured.

That's right , will Brown be back this week though.

 

[loki04]

Nice stats, but watch that average fall greatly with the more time he spends forward, it simply will.

I'm still not sold on the whole "Reid has to play forward" thing because when he goes forward, our already struggling defense gets worse, and there is no replacement, Keeffe isn't in the same league when it comes to intercept marks or the ability to rebound off half back, and Goldsack is an over rated defender who has played his best football up forward, all be it in a defensive forward role.

I'd like to see us try Keeffe up forward this week, what's to say he won't be close to as effective as Reid?

I simply can not see us beating any good side with Reid out of that backline.

Going by the stats it quite obviously doesn't get worse infact it improves as less ball gets rebounded when he is forward.

 

[tazzawazza]

Nice stats, but watch that average fall greatly with the more time he spends forward, it simply will.

I'm still not sold on the whole "Reid has to play forward" thing because when he goes forward, our already struggling defense gets worse, and there is no replacement, Keeffe isn't in the same league when it comes to intercept marks or the ability to rebound off half back, and Goldsack is an over rated defender who has played his best football up forward, all be it in a defensive forward role.

I'd like to see us try Keeffe up forward this week, what's to say he won't be close to as effective as Reid?

I simply can not see us beating any good side with Reid out of that backline.

Keeffe is a horrible forward! No lead, to scared to get in the packs, can't kick, slow. No where near the abilities of Reid.

 

[Pera]

Brown will come straight back in this week, and Keeffe should stay so Reid can play permanent forward. I liked Goldsack off half back against GC, but we just lack that extra tall target going forward. And Reid straightens us up down there and gives us another avenue to goal.

It needs to be done over the next couple of weeks if we are going to have some success this season.

 

[forwardflanker]

Nice stats, but watch that average fall greatly with the more time he spends forward, it simply will.

I'm still not sold on the whole "Reid has to play forward" thing because when he goes forward, our already struggling defense gets worse, and there is no replacement, Keeffe isn't in the same league when it comes to intercept marks or the ability to rebound off half back, and Goldsack is an over rated defender who has played his best football up forward, all be it in a defensive forward role.

I'd like to see us try Keeffe up forward this week, what's to say he won't be close to as effective as Reid?

I simply can not see us beating any good side with Reid out of that backline.

Reid's been well down in both those aspects the last season and a bit. When it comes to 1v1 defending there isn't much in it b/w Keefe and Reid and in fact I think Keefe will end up a better nullifying defender.

On the other hand I think Reid will be substantially better than Keefe playing as a forward - he has played there throughout underage level and has shown the last month that he can have big influence down there. The difficulty with being a good kpf is that the position requires a lot of craft as well athleticism. Being relatively new to the game I doubt Keefe will have the aptitude to play kpf in terms of reading the play, leading at the right times, blocking, making space for Cloke etc, none of which he really has to deal with playing as a nullifying key defender. The reason KPF's are so highly valued is because there are only a handful who can combine height, athleticism and intelligence in their game.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Nice stats, but watch that average fall greatly with the more time he spends forward, it simply will.

I'm still not sold on the whole "Reid has to play forward" thing because when he goes forward, our already struggling defense gets worse, and there is no replacement, Keeffe isn't in the same league when it comes to intercept marks or the ability to rebound off half back, and Goldsack is an over rated defender who has played his best football up forward, all be it in a defensive forward role.

I'd like to see us try Keeffe up forward this week, what's to say he won't be close to as effective as Reid?

I simply can not see us beating any good side with Reid out of that backline.

Good thinking Mattys let's deny ourselves the one thing that we have desperately needed the past 2 years.. A forward structure that works. But people like you have proven that with nick maxwell in the back line showing great leadership abilities, actual skill levels down back are not important, so we can stick anyone down there and Maxy will hold it all together like he has does so well this year. So maybe let's give Reid a full run at the forward line and see how well those stats hold up before we make doomsday prophecies.

 

[blaze036]

Small sample size and the move caught opponents by surprise early on, and Reids goal kicking was the best he'll ever have.

Won't keep this average up now that opposition teams will put more time into it, and the yips could easily come back

 

[TradeDraft]

Keeffe is a horrible forward! No lead, to scared to get in the packs, can't kick, slow. No where near the abilities of Reid.

Keeffe is as good as Kick as Reid

 

[Leeroy Brown 15]

We seem to play Better with Reid up Forward

I think you may be on to something here.

 

[SuperSub17]

Some good selective stats there. What about games where Reid has played back the whole game? What are the differentials then?

It's natural our goal differential will be down when he plays back (in games when he later plays forward), because that is what inspires the change in the first place.

 

[HFF]

Small sample size and the move caught opponents by surprise early on, and Reids goal kicking was the best he'll ever have.

Won't keep this average up now that opposition teams will put more time into it, and the yips could easily come back

Strike while the iron is hot.

And our best is with Reid forward.

 

[Green Eggs]

The big question is where is he most valuable?

We need to play him up forward for a whole game to really work out where we gain the most "bang for our bucks" but at the moment I would say based on those stats, on paper he is definitely more important to us as Key Forward.

If we look into the future and see where we're at with our Key Position/Tall stocks I find he is still more valuable to us as a Key Forward;

Nathan Brown (Defender)
Tyson Goldsack (Defender/Forward)
Lachlan Keeffe (Defender)
Jack Frost (Defender)

Travis Cloke (Forward)
Brodie Grundy (Forward/Ruck)
Jarryd Witts (Forward/Ruck)
Darcy Moore (Forward)

Based on those examples you would think we would have Witts & Grundy rotating through the Forward line. Brown & Keeffe to play on the opposition FF & CHF. Tyson Goldsack to be a swing-man and play wherever he is needed. Frost & Moore developing in the VFL unless one of them kicks the door down at selection.

This would mean our forward line would need a second target, I don't think Goldsack or Paine have what it takes to be real targets that lure the oppositions better defenders away from Cloke really.

 

[mavs5]

Don't care what the stats say.
All l know is that we need a 2nd permanent tall to help Cloke.
Don't care who it is, aslong as they can take the pressure off Cloke and give another option to the midfield when kicking to the forward line.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Don't care what the stats say.
All l know is that we need a 2nd permanent tall to help Cloke.
Don't care who it is, aslong as they can take the pressure off Cloke and give another option to the midfield when kicking to the forward line.

Well we have tried lynch and Dawes in this role and its shown that unless they are performing and kicking goals themselves they are of little use. Goldsack did ok when he was fit last year, but wasn't overly damaging.
Reid has been the only one to really show some class and threat f their own. It's why rough head and a franklin are so dangerous this year, if one of them isn't kicking goals the other is, so very difficult to contain them both.

That's the opportunity we have with Reid. To really fx our woeful forward setup. Provide a target and convert at a better rate than Cloke. Too big a chance to pass over without giving t a real go.

 

[Alexander323bc]

I think the point we are all trying to make is we need to play two key mobile forwards. I don't know why we decided two forwards don't work. If they do their job you don't need forward press or extra fitness/runners. Seems that we are setting up for failure to start with and we expect to win. A serious concern in my book.