Opinion Speed and Endurance vs SpeedEndurance

[RussellEbertHandball]

Recently I have heard Burgo and Kane talk about how we have a genetically gifted group who are very good runners. It sounds pretty accurate and I have done a bit of digging around for some historical stats.

It also makes me think of Peter Rohde and others in our post flag years talking about finding players that have that unique blend of Speed and Endurance. A lot of us bagged Rohdey because we seemed to recruit a lot of guys who werent really that fast, didn't put on much muscle and seemed to plod along and huff and puff a lot and not run out games.

But maybe Rohdey and co were right all along and it took Burgo to harness their natural genetic advantage and Kenny to bring his running game philosophy to take full advantage of them.

What is SpeedEndurance?? Basically its about being able to sprint at near your maximum output for as long as possible over a 5 second to 10 second interval and being able to repeat the sprints and maintain similar times. A definition from a Wikie style athletics site.

Speed-endurance is the ability to prolong the amount of time where a near maximal speed can be maintained.[1] During activity such as this, accumulation of blood lactate disturbs the excitation-contraction coupling and cross-bridge formation. The muscle's mechanical properties are disturbed, resulting in a decrease in force production, peak force and velocity. [2] Speed-endurance training can improve the clearance rate of lactate and reduce early lactate formation.[2] Speed endurance is crucial to a multitude of athletes and a lack of it will result in reduced sports capability.

1. Lee, Jimson (2007-02-12). What is Speed Endurance training?. Speedendurance.com.
2. Sport Fitness Advisor (n.d.). Speed Endurance Training. Sport-fitness-advisor.com. Retrieved on 2008-10-04.

Note 1 is from www.Speedendurance.com. I have been reading this website since the 2007 athletics world champs. Its mainly about athletics but they cover others sports. Front page story at the moment is about Serena Williams needing a coffee during her tennis match at the Hopman Cup the other day.

Below is the charts of Bolt and others splits over 100m and shows how much speedendurance they had when they set world records ie when they hit their maximum speed between 40-60m and how long and how close to that maximum speed they were able to maintain.

I'm going to open it up to others to nominate which of our players you would put in which category. I will add to list over time. maybe some of those who work in the fitness area BrockBlitz and Power freak 2008 can add their technical analysis and opinion

Now most footballers dont have to run flat out for more than 30-50m and the need to bounce a ball sometimes upsets their balance and desire to keep running with the ball. But footballers need to make repeat sprints in short space of time and need to recover and keep at that maximum level.

But here is my opening list of where I put some of our squad in which category.

SpeedEndurance
White, Flynn, Boak

Speed only
Neade, Wingard, Krakouer Impey, Pittard, Mitchell

Speed and Endurance
Boak, O'Shea - based on draft camp results Bryne Jones and Amon

Endurance only
Cornes, Ebert, Clurey, Westhoff, Lobbe, Colquhoon

Bolt's velocity graph for the Bejing 9.69 run

Edit London 20m splits when ran 9.63

http://speedendurance.com/2012/08/09/usain-bolt-20-meter-splits-london-2012-olympics/

http://sportsscientists.com/2008/08/beijing-2008-men-100m-race-analysis/
and
http://sportsscientists.com/2008/09/usain-bolt-9-55s-yeah-right/
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...mpionships-thread.615719/page-3#post-15414772


And here is famous US Sprint coach John Smith explaining what SpeedEndurance is.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This site has a lot of Draft camp/combine results. It has a s**t load of stuff for sports fitness around the world generally.
http://www.topendsports.com/index.htm

This link gives the record holders for the different tests with links back to 2003 or detailed info and 199-2002 period has limited info.
http://www.topendsports.com/sport/afl/testing-draft-results.htm

This link has the top 10 results for each metric over 15 years or so of testing
http://www.topendsports.com/sport/afl/testing-draft-results-best.htm

This link explains what each test is and what and how they are measuring it
http://www.topendsports.com/sport/afl/testing-draft-camp.htm

 

[ozph1870]

imagine how good bolt would be if he could get off to a decent start...ad if he didnt slow down in the last 10 metres, i hope he has always been clean.

 

[Concussion]

Beer, Pharmaceuticals and REH don't mix.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

imagine how good bolt would be if he could get off to a decent start...ad if he didnt slow down in the last 10 metres, i hope he has always been clean.

Look at his last 10m split in 2008 v 2009 and the previous 3 or 4 10m's and you see he didn't stuff around in Berlin world champs in 2009. The same goes with his 200m at both 2008 Olympics and 2009 World champs - no stuffing around. Actually there was no stuffing around by Bolt at the 2011 and 2013 World Champs and 2012 Olympics in the 200m.

 

[Doctor Feel]

i reckon hoff can go into speed and endurance. that guy is seriously quick when he guns it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Danyle Pearce set the 20m sprint record in 2004 @ 2.79 seconds which stood until 2010 when Joel Wilkson broke it with 2.75.

But here are results of our group since the 2006 and achieving a top 10 result.

20m Sprint
2006
1st Krakouer 2.83
10th Boak 2.96

2013
3rd Flynn 2.83
5th Amon 2.90
10th Bryne Jones 2.94
* fastest was 2.78

Repeat Sprints
2006
7th Krakouer 25.08

2013
2nd Bryne Jones 24.06
4th Flynn 24.25
1st recorded 23.62

Agility
2009
8th Moore 8.17
1st recorded 7.95

2011
7th Wingard 8.13
1st recorded 7.80

2013
2nd Flynn 8.08
4th Bryne Jones 8.15
5th Amon 8.18
1st recorded 7.97

* Pearce in 2004 set the record 7.79 and has only been bettered by Stephen Hill in 2008 with 7.77

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

i reckon hoff can go into speed and endurance. that guy is seriously quick when he guns it.

I ummed and arghed about that. He occasionally sprints hard but he doesnt do it very often IMO. What do others think?

 

[BrockBlitz]

Mitchell goes to speed endurance for sure.

Pittard believe it or not has the best top end at the club. Not sure how he goes in the repeats.

 

[raman]

Pittard believe it or not has the best top end at the club. Not sure how he goes in the repeats.

Completely believe it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Mitchell goes to speed endurance for sure.

Pittard believe it or not has the best top end at the club. Not sure how he goes in the repeats.

The more I think about it the more I agree re Mitchell but I have seen him blow up.

What distance are you talking about for Pittard? 20m? Longer?

 

[BrockBlitz]

The more I think about it the more I agree re Mitchell but I have seen him blow up.

What distance are you talking about for Pittard? 20m? Longer?

top speed, so I guess in that 40-60m bracket. Probably 30-50 for this level of athlete.

 

[Gee Dub]

imagine how good bolt would be if he could get off to a decent start...ad if he didnt slow down in the last 10 metres, i hope he has always been clean.

Big guys get to their top speed slower traditionally. Those sprints are about how long guys can keep their top speed. If you hit it later you will be faster (Bolt).

 

[Kingfish73]

Interesting read and perspective. Ability to have speed and deliver foot skills very hard. White stands out in this

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

 

[NoddyHolder]

I ran for a bus once... didn't catch it

 

[mic59]

I ran for a bus once... didn't catch it

I once didn't catch a bus as the traffic on Cross Rd didn't clear in time, but I caught it at the next stop as it was held up at various lights while I kept loping along. Don't know what this comes under, it's not speed-endurance as I wasn't running at my maximum all the time, just a pretty fair trot, but I was able to sprint when the next bus stop came in sight.
This was 35 years ago, now I'd just wait 15-30 minutes for the next bus.

 

[Rankor]

Is this why we got lonie?

 

[FallingLiefs]

Personally i think O'Shea is just endurance, he is just going at same speed at end of the game as he is at the start. He takes a while to work into the game and doesn't really show too much line breaking speed, it seems to be more so gut running back in defence. Mitchell is also the same. Also Pittard fits the SpeedEndurance category for me.

 

[Power freak 2008]

Speed endurance is the ability to maintain a top speed repetitively. Speed is just that speed. So this implies that a trainer would need to train a person for speed as well as the ability to apply it repetitively.

Sprinting (or absolute speed) is trained over 30-100 meters. To develop speed we do it in a relaxed manner because it is all about learning how to start, accelerate, and integrate proper technique. A player can be taught to be faster.One of the biggest problems i have when teaching running or boxing is to get people to relax. If you tense you do not recruit the right muscles and it is hard to produce power.

Strength will influence speed. The hours the boys spend in the gym in the preseason isn't only for size. The main aim of training is to increase force production. If you saw the video that REH put up of the guys sprinting you can see that when the foot strikes the ground the athletes almost pops up in the air. This is a combination of strength, power and technique.

Power is strength x speed.



One way to teach this is to imagine this explosive push-up. When the guy lands on the ground he has to land like a ninja. That is make no noise. To do that he has to absorb the impact quickly. He then has to turn that that in the other direction without the hint of stopping for even a fraction. It is the quick turnover from concentric to eccentric that creates the training effect. That is done properly the athlete develops and ability to store energy and return it like a slingshot. This is the same principle of sprinting because running is like skipping rope. We actually spring off our forefoot.





So athletes need to be trained to be strong, powerful, flexible and coordinated.

Endurance, and in particular speed endurance is affected by the aforementioned training modes. Speed, strength, power and flexibility all influence the amount of speed endurance we can train in the first place. There are also different ways to train speed endurance. One way is to go flat out but not to failure. We have seen the boys do these where they do a drill intensely but keep moving. The fatigue here should accumulate. The athlete needs to keep his intensity up over the entire workout though. The next way is to train with higher intensities for longer but with timed rest. We then have sessions that are very high in stress and quite punishing which is designed to push the athletes system to the limits.

The trainer has to decide how often to do these workouts, manage recovery and maintian strength and power gains made in the gym.

 

[Portmanteau]

Our recruiters were talking about a unique blend of speed and endurance dating back to drafting Michael Stevens in 1998.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Our recruiters were talking about a unique blend of speed and endurance dating back to drafting Michael Stevens in 1998.

I reckon Pettigrew was the first one I heard quoted given that description and Rohde first used in in 2006 or 2007 draft/trading period.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Personally i think O'Shea is just endurance, he is just going at same speed at end of the game as he is at the start. He takes a while to work into the game and doesn't really show too much line breaking speed, it seems to be more so gut running back in defence. Mitchell is also the same. Also Pittard fits the SpeedEndurance category for me.

For me O'Shea exhbits real speed when he doesn't have the ball in hand but intercepts opposition passes. He covers an amazing amount of ground in such short period. He insint good at running and bouncing and knowing what to do next scenario.

 

[tribey]

Our recruiters were talking about a unique blend of speed and endurance dating back to drafting Michael Stevens in 1998.

That freaking underage GF...

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

I found this on another thread regarding Stevens. The whole concept is extremely interesting and one can only be envious of the wealth of knowledge that Burgess and co bring to your club.

Fitness coach Andrew Russell says...
When I came to the club, Michael was the most talented pure runner here. This year he has transferred that talent and has actually become our most diverse running player, in that he has a rare blend of speed and endurance.

Although he has improved significantly this year, he is probably not aware even himself of how good he could be, given his consistently high level of training this year continues.

He still needs to work on his strength levels to become the complete player from a condition point of view.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/michael-stevens.38429/

 

[raman]

Our recruiters were talking about a unique blend of speed and endurance dating back to drafting Michael Stevens in 1998.

I thought "a unique blend of speed and endurance" got a bad name because it basically referred to someone who was an athlete more than a footballer.