St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[littlecreatures]

Lol I have done my own homework, the answer is hardly any kid were drafted out of Queensland and the academy is helping to change that, secondly the question I asked was how many qld kids you started naming a couple of nsw! Prior to the academies what percent of Queensland kids were drafted???? It’s pretty easy to figure out consider it was either 0 or 1 in most drafts

Once again, your question was “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. If you want a percentage, do your own research.

Your argument relates to NRL territory and that no players were drafted prior to academies which is evidently incorrect. If you want to isolate your argument to QLD (not sure why and what exactly the merit is), see below. Clearly there’s been a body of players for the best part of 30-40 years.

• Jason Dunstall (1985)
• Marcus Ashcroft (1988)
• Michael Voss (1992)
• Brett Voss (1995)
• David Hale (2001)
• Steven Lawrence (1994)
• Shane Morrison (1999)
• Clark Keating (1992)
• Jason Akermanis (1994)
• Nathan Clarke (1997)
• Trent Knobel (1999)
• Jamie Charman (2000)
• Nick Riewoldt (2000)
• Daniel Merrett (2002)
• Joel MacDonald (2003)
• Brad Moran (2004)
• Sam Michael (2012)
• David Armitage (2006)
• Max Hudghton (1996)
• Courtenay Dempsey (2005)
• Jesse White (2006)
• Tom Hickey (2010)
• Josh Thomas (2009)
• Zac Smith (2009)
• Alex Sexton (2011)
• Rory Thompson (2009)
• Alik Magin (2010)
• Maverick Weller (2010)

Clearly, there’s been a body of success with recruiting talent from Queensland prior to the current draft rort, and there’s more appropriate ways of continuing to grow the game in these areas, amongst others, without embedding academies firmly into the draft without paying fair value.

 

[Elixuh]

Once again, your question was “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. If you want a percentage, do your own research.

Your argument relates to NRL territory and that no players were drafted prior to academies which is evidently incorrect. If you want to isolate your argument to QLD (not sure why and what exactly the merit is), see below. Clearly there’s been a body of players for the best part of 30-40 years.

• Jason Dunstall (1985)
• Marcus Ashcroft (1988)
• Michael Voss (1992)
• Brett Voss (1995)
• David Hale (2001)
• Steven Lawrence (1994)
• Shane Morrison (1999)
• Clark Keating (1992)
• Jason Akermanis (1994)
• Nathan Clarke (1997)
• Trent Knobel (1999)
• Jamie Charman (2000)
• Nick Riewoldt (2000)
• Daniel Merrett (2002)
• Joel MacDonald (2003)
• Brad Moran (2004)
• Sam Michael (2012)
• David Armitage (2006)
• Max Hudghton (1996)
• Courtenay Dempsey (2005)
• Jesse White (2006)
• Tom Hickey (2010)
• Josh Thomas (2009)
• Zac Smith (2009)
• Alex Sexton (2011)
• Rory Thompson (2009)
• Alik Magin (2010)
• Maverick Weller (2010)

Clearly, there’s been a body of success with recruiting talent from Queensland prior to the current draft rort, and there’s more appropriate ways of continuing to grow the game in these areas, amongst others, without embedding academies firmly into the draft without paying fair value.

Boy oh boy wowee, 1 draftee a year! Woah Nelly woah. Can’t keep up with all that talent!

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The Punter for your sanity you should know the BL folk on the main board and ITT will go on all day with the inane dribblings. Not worth the effort really.

We all know changes need be made to the academies, not elimination. But tweaks to how they operate.

 

[The Punter]

The Punter for your sanity you should know the BL folk on the main board and ITT will go on all day with the inane dribblings. Not worth the effort really.

We all know changes need be made to the academies, not elimination. But tweaks to how they operate.

I finally read a response that didn't need one from me, so I'm probably done. As I said about ten pages ago, I stand by my proposal that was about twenty pages ago.

 

[Elixuh]

The Punter for your sanity you should know the BL folk on the main board and ITT will go on all day with the inane dribblings. Not worth the effort really.

We all know changes need be made to the academies, not elimination. But tweaks to how they operate.

Imagine if Ricky Ponting quit his cricket team because he wasn’t getting a ‘fair go’!

 

[mighty_lions]

Once again, your question was “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. If you want a percentage, do your own research.

Your argument relates to NRL territory and that no players were drafted prior to academies which is evidently incorrect. If you want to isolate your argument to QLD (not sure why and what exactly the merit is), see below. Clearly there’s been a body of players for the best part of 30-40 years.

• Jason Dunstall (1985)
• Marcus Ashcroft (1988)
• Michael Voss (1992)
• Brett Voss (1995)
• David Hale (2001)
• Steven Lawrence (1994)
• Shane Morrison (1999)
• Clark Keating (1992)
• Jason Akermanis (1994)
• Nathan Clarke (1997)
• Trent Knobel (1999)
• Jamie Charman (2000)
• Nick Riewoldt (2000)
• Daniel Merrett (2002)
• Joel MacDonald (2003)
• Brad Moran (2004)
• Sam Michael (2012)
• David Armitage (2006)
• Max Hudghton (1996)
• Courtenay Dempsey (2005)
• Jesse White (2006)
• Tom Hickey (2010)
• Josh Thomas (2009)
• Zac Smith (2009)
• Alex Sexton (2011)
• Rory Thompson (2009)
• Alik Magin (2010)
• Maverick Weller (2010)

Clearly, there’s been a body of success with recruiting talent from Queensland prior to the current draft rort, and there’s more appropriate ways of continuing to grow the game in these areas, amongst others, without embedding academies firmly into the draft without paying fair value.

so 1 a year, you've just answered why there needs to be academies, well done

come back to me when there's 15-20 being drafted every year consistantly

 

[The Punter]

so 1 a year, you've just answered why there needs to be academies, well done

come back to me when there's 15-20 being drafted every year consistantly

I reckon 1 out of every 3 draftees will be Queenslanders when 1 out of every 3 footy fans are Queenslanders.

My proposal ensured at least two a year (two clubs in Queensland), with other additions I'm sure through later picks in the draft that no one can reasonably take issue with.

 

[littlecreatures]

so 1 a year, you've just answered why there needs to be academies, well done

come back to me when there's 15-20 being drafted every year consistantly

Mate, we’re up to a stage where there’s 3 just going to Gold Coast every first round lol and 30% of the draft is predicted to come from the Northern zones

 

[mighty_lions]

Mate, we’re up to a stage where there’s 3 just going to Gold Coast every first round lol and 30% of the draft is predicted to come from the Northern zones

3 every year? or just last year? when its 15-20 every year from queensland then it should change, 44 from Victoria last year lol

 

[Tasmanian saint]

This is laughable you’ve named a handful of players over a span of quarter of a century from where 60 percent of the Australian population live, no wonder st kilda supporters are unhinged, now go through every Victorian you have drafted since 2000 and list them below please

It’s not just some random list of players though is it You casually leave out that Two of those players Hayes and Riewoldt are hall of fame level players that were apart of the same side that competed in grand finals, under the current system neither of those two would have been available to st kilda and that st kilda team was not making grand finals without them , that puts in perspective how ridiculous and unfair the current system is your point of view is unbelievably biased!

 

[Elixuh]

The other point working against the Sainters is…if you’re in charge of the AFL your interests are better served keeping northern clubs strong and out of basket case territory than listening to what St Kilda has to say.

 

[mighty_lions]

You casually leave out that Two of those players Hayes and Riewoldt are hall of fame level players that were apart of the same side that competed in grand finals, under the current system neither of those two would have been available to st kilda and that st kilda team was not making grand finals without them , that puts in perspective how ridiculous and unfair the current system is your point of view is unbelievably biased!

Who knows what would of happened, maybe you would of traded or drafted in even better and won the grand final this is such loser mentality it would be like me saying maybe if the grand final wasn't at the mcg then we win 2023, you are raising something from 25 years ago which shows how much of an impact the academies really have had on st Kilda, absolutely zero

 

[mighty_lions]

It’s not just some random list of players though is it You casually leave out that Two of those players Hayes and Riewoldt are hall of fame level players that were apart of the same side that competed in grand finals, under the current system neither of those two would have been available to st kilda and that st kilda team was not making grand finals without them , that puts in perspective how ridiculous and unfair the current system is your point of view is unbelievably biased!

also riewoldt/kozzie draft was a priority pick! talk about real draft rorting, you shouldn't of even had access to Koschitzke

 

[The Punter]

also riewoldt/kozzie draft was a priority pick! talk about real draft rorting, you shouldn't of even had access to Koschitzke

But giving bad teams access to the best players is why the draft was invented.

 

[mighty_lions]

But giving bad teams access to the best players is why the draft was invented.

yeah thats why st Kilda got pick 1, with his logic if Gold Coast were in, st Kilda should of got picks 1 and 2 and also take away local talent hahahaha actually laughable

 

[.Shotties.]

Once again, your question was “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. If you want a percentage, do your own research.

Your argument relates to NRL territory and that no players were drafted prior to academies which is evidently incorrect. If you want to isolate your argument to QLD (not sure why and what exactly the merit is), see below. Clearly there’s been a body of players for the best part of 30-40 years.

• Jason Dunstall (1985)
• Marcus Ashcroft (1988)
• Michael Voss (1992)
• Brett Voss (1995)
• David Hale (2001)
• Steven Lawrence (1994)
• Shane Morrison (1999)
• Clark Keating (1992)
• Jason Akermanis (1994)
• Nathan Clarke (1997)
• Trent Knobel (1999)
• Jamie Charman (2000)
• Nick Riewoldt (2000)
• Daniel Merrett (2002)
• Joel MacDonald (2003)
• Brad Moran (2004)
• Sam Michael (2012)
• David Armitage (2006)
• Max Hudghton (1996)
• Courtenay Dempsey (2005)
• Jesse White (2006)
• Tom Hickey (2010)
• Josh Thomas (2009)
• Zac Smith (2009)
• Alex Sexton (2011)
• Rory Thompson (2009)
• Alik Magin (2010)
• Maverick Weller (2010)

Clearly, there’s been a body of success with recruiting talent from Queensland prior to the current draft rort, and there’s more appropriate ways of continuing to grow the game in these areas, amongst others, without embedding academies firmly into the draft without paying fair value.

I can't be bothered trawling back to see if the argument was zero players before the academies, but I don't think a list that shows a drafting rate of less than a draftee a year, most of who weren't high in the draft makes the point that there was a reliable amount of quality coming out of QLD, or comparable to the level after the academies came in.

 

[The Punter]

yeah thats why st Kilda got pick 1, with his logic if Gold Coast were in, st Kilda should of got picks 1 and 2 and also take away local talent hahahaha actually laughable

With my proposal, GC would have had one player outside the draft (which would have been Riewoldt), as well as Sydney, Brisbane and GWS, then St Kilda would have had the first two picks in the draft. And I wouldn't have cared, or missed what I never had. But it would have been fairer.

The Lenny Hayes one doesn't work as well as Sydney had three picks in the top 10 in 1999 and passed on Hayes three times.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

also riewoldt/kozzie draft was a priority pick! talk about real draft rorting, you shouldn't of even had access to Koschitzke

A priority pick for winning less than 4 games two seasons in a row was designed to help clubs struggling on field. Brisbane won 3 premierships with an extra 1 million plus in salary cap compared to Theres opponents

 

[mighty_lions]

A priority pick for winning less than 4 games two seasons in a row was designed to help clubs struggling on field. Brisbane won 3 premierships with an extra 1 million plus in salary cap compared to Theres opponents

not quite it was 10% which was not an extra million dollars but lets not let facts get in the way of your story from 25 years ago, and quite rightly for having a percentage of interstate players which is now what the academies address
But lets drill down further it was 500k with a list of 40, a whopping $13k per player a huge advantage considering players have to relocate to a different state

that really won us 3 in a row ! a huge 13k each!

 

[StevoJenkins]

Once again, your question was “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. If you want a percentage, do your own research.

Your argument relates to NRL territory and that no players were drafted prior to academies which is evidently incorrect. If you want to isolate your argument to QLD (not sure why and what exactly the merit is), see below. Clearly there’s been a body of players for the best part of 30-40 years.

• Jason Dunstall (1985)
• Marcus Ashcroft (1988)
• Michael Voss (1992)
• Brett Voss (1995)
• David Hale (2001)
• Steven Lawrence (1994)
• Shane Morrison (1999)
• Clark Keating (1992)
• Jason Akermanis (1994)
• Nathan Clarke (1997)
• Trent Knobel (1999)
• Jamie Charman (2000)
• Nick Riewoldt (2000)
• Daniel Merrett (2002)
• Joel MacDonald (2003)
• Brad Moran (2004)
• Sam Michael (2012)
• David Armitage (2006)
• Max Hudghton (1996)
• Courtenay Dempsey (2005)
• Jesse White (2006)
• Tom Hickey (2010)
• Josh Thomas (2009)
• Zac Smith (2009)
• Alex Sexton (2011)
• Rory Thompson (2009)
• Alik Magin (2010)
• Maverick Weller (2010)

Clearly, there’s been a body of success with recruiting talent from Queensland prior to the current draft rort, and there’s more appropriate ways of continuing to grow the game in these areas, amongst others, without embedding academies firmly into the draft without paying fair value.

One draftee a year (sometimes a gap with multiple years without) is not "a body of success in Queensland". One kid vs. 70 or so other players, most of whom are from Victoria, is not a success.

Maybe you should try and "do your homework" by calculating the state representation of the remaining draftees in the draft. I can guarantee it's not even close to the same number of NSW/QLD players drafted.

Mate, we’re up to a stage where there’s 3 just going to Gold Coast every first round lol and 30% of the draft is predicted to come from the Northern zones

Okay, so if we include Annable, there are 4 top 20 players in the draft from QLD academies. Once Brisbane match, they aren't getting any of their other academy members, unless their draft hand improves. You now have a pool of a hundred and something other players to choose from. Sure, pretty much everyone gets passed after 65/70ish, but there's still talent there.

It's almost as if you equate 5 players from the draft tied to academies (not all of which are matched) to there's no good talent in the draft.

It's important to remember, Brisbane have drafted 7 players in the academy's existence, Gold Coast 10, GWS 12, and Sydney - 7. That's the total over 10ish (give or take) years. 2 of those players from Brisbane were over-agers (Coleman and Bruce). If the academies were producing 15 of the top draftees, and successfully drafted all of them, the point that the northern clubs academies compromises the draft would be valid, but that is not the case.

 

[littlecreatures]

One draftee a year (sometimes a gap with multiple years without) is not "a body of success in Queensland". One kid vs. 70 or so other players, most of whom are from Victoria, is not a success.

Maybe you should try and "do your homework" by calculating the state representation of the remaining draftees in the draft. I can guarantee it's not even close to the same number of NSW/QLD players drafted.



Okay, so if we include Annable, there are 4 top 20 players in the draft from QLD academies. Once Brisbane match, they aren't getting any of their other academy members, unless their draft hand improves. You now have a pool of a hundred and something other players to choose from. Sure, pretty much everyone gets passed after 65/70ish, but there's still talent there.

It's almost as if you equate 5 players from the draft tied to academies (not all of which are matched) to there's no good talent in the draft.

It's important to remember, Brisbane have drafted 7 players in the academy's existence, Gold Coast 10, GWS 12, and Sydney - 7. That's the total over 10ish (give or take) years. 2 of those players from Brisbane were over-agers (Coleman and Bruce). If the academies were producing 15 of the top draftees, and successfully drafted all of them, the point that the northern clubs academies compromises the draft would be valid, but that is not the case.

The argument was that AFL talent would otherwise choose NRL in Queensland without academies. That’s factually incorrect as evidenced by the 40+ players since late 1980s/early 1990s up until 2011 who have been recruited from Queensland, noting this list isn’t even exhaustive.

Clearly, there’s a level of success with pooling talent from Queensland. No one is saying the pool of talent is proportionate to Vic/WA/et, but to say it’s so dire without academies that there will be no talent due to it being diverted into NFL is factually incorrect.

The state representation for remaining states across the draft is besides the point when every club gets equal access to that talent and equal mechanisms to attract and retain that talent. You’re able to draft that talent with the same level of access just like every other club, then you get to double dip while finishing top of the ladder and getting pushed up to the top of the draft.

We (Saints) share a talent pool with 9 other clubs, so we’re actually working of a relatively diluted talent pool and really don’t have any mechanisms to attract and retain talent in comparison to the Northern academies.

The draft is basically the only mechanism of equality we can rely upon and it’s an absolute rort when first round draft hands are being pushed out behind 30 picks. No one can honestly argue that’s a good thing.

Once again, there’s more appropriate mechanisms to continuing to grow the game in Northern zones without firmly embedding it into the draft without paying fair value. All it does is serve the AFL’s commercial interests and your club’s own interest.

 

[.Shotties.]

The argument was that AFL talent would otherwise choose NRL in Queensland without academies. That’s factually incorrect as evidenced by the 40+ players since late 1980s/early 1990s up until 2011 who have been recruited from Queensland, noting this list isn’t even exhaustive.

Clearly, there’s a level of success with pooling talent from Queensland. No one is saying the pool of talent is proportionate to Vic/WA/et, but to say it’s so dire without academies that there will be no talent due to it being diverted into NFL is factually incorrect.

Again, who has said there would be no or zero talent?

 

[GC2015]

• Jason Dunstall (1985)
• Marcus Ashcroft (1988)
• Michael Voss (1992)
• Brett Voss (1995)
• David Hale (2001)
• Steven Lawrence (1994)
• Shane Morrison (1999)
• Clark Keating (1992)
• Jason Akermanis (1994)
• Nathan Clarke (1997)
• Trent Knobel (1999)
• Jamie Charman (2000)
• Nick Riewoldt (2000)
• Daniel Merrett (2002)
• Joel MacDonald (2003)
• Brad Moran (2004)
• Sam Michael (2012)
• David Armitage (2006)
• Max Hudghton (1996)
• Courtenay Dempsey (2005)
• Jesse White (2006)
• Tom Hickey (2010)
• Josh Thomas (2009)
• Zac Smith (2009)
• Alex Sexton (2011)
• Rory Thompson (2009)
• Alik Magin (2010)
• Maverick Weller (2010)

Clearly, there’s been a body of success with recruiting talent from Queensland prior to the current draft rort, and there’s more appropriate ways of continuing to grow the game in these areas, amongst others, without embedding academies firmly into the draft without paying fair value.

You listed 28 players over a 26-year period (1985-2011). In what world could that possibly be considered a body of success? 1 draftee a year from the third largest state is hardly anything to write home about. To put it in context, Victoria had 28 players drafted in the first 33 national draft picks last year alone! How many Queenslanders were drafted last year? 3 total and 1 of them was a rookie pick. Now I know some may point to 2023 and say Queensland had 5 draftees that year, but then if you go back to 2022 you'll find only 2 Queenslanders were drafted and 2021 saw just 1 Queenslander drafted into the AFL. The disparity between Queensland and Victoria in terms of draftees is really obvious, whether it's in the academy era or not.

It's great that we've been able to grow the amount of Queenslanders getting drafted into the AFL from 1 a year on average to 3 or 4 a year on average, but we're nowhere near a level playing field when compared to Victoria. You must also keep in mind that Queensland (5.6m pop) isn't that much smaller than Victoria (7m pop) unlike Western Australia (3m pop) and South Australi (1.8m). Despite having more than 3x the population of South Australia, Queensland only had 3 draftees compared to SA's 15 and WA (who are considered to be struggling to produce AFL talent at the moment) had nearly 4x the number of draftees Queensland had with 11 draftees from the west last year. Maybe this will really put it in context - the city of Geelong (280k pop) produced more draftees (4) than Queensland last year (3).

We've still got a long way to go before Queensland's footy developmental systems could be considered "a body of success" when it comes to the AFL draft. The AFL knows this and are going to continue to pursue avenues to increase those numbers. The northern academies are ticking that box at the moment so it's not surprising to see the AFL wants to keep them going in their current form.

 

[Chip Scab1]

not quite it was 10% which was not an extra million dollars but lets not let facts get in the way of your story from 25 years ago, and quite rightly for having a percentage of interstate players which is now what the academies address
But lets drill down further it was 500k with a list of 40, a whopping $13k per player a huge advantage considering players have to relocate to a different state

that really won us 3 in a row ! a huge 13k each!

Or 1 really good player?

You're last Premiership without an asterisk was...checks notes... 1922.

1944 - everyone was at War
2001-2003 - 10% more cap than your competitors despite residing in a less expensive place than Melbourne or Sydney or Perth (probably).
2024 (variety)


The Club the AFL holds so dear, Premiers, you'll be this year (get in the Q)

 

[mighty_lions]

Or 1 really good player?

You're last Premiership without an asterisk was...checks notes... 1922.

1944 - everyone was at War
2001-2003 - 10% more cap than your competitors despite residing in a less expensive place than Melbourne or Sydney or Perth (probably).
2024 (variety)


The Club the AFL holds so dear, Premiers, you'll be this year (get in the Q)

lol no asterisk mate one of the greatest premierships of all time and every chance to go back to back, it’s a great time to be a lion supporter but sure if you want an asterisk next to it go for it lol