St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[The Punter]

It’s pretty clear that if you have 10 teams in one city in a national comp and the majority of talent coming from that region that there will be significant issues with achieving a completely pure and unhindered draft. You can’t even agree on that point - which isn’t controversial - so I’m not sure what else we can say.

So the majority of the teams, talent and fans of the sport come from one place. I concede this creates issues, but ones that are impossible to fix. Any elimination or relocation of Victorian teams will result in fewer fans. It didn't matter so much in 1996 because Fitzroy had fewer than 8000 members. North had the smallest membership among Melbourne clubs in 2024 and had over 50,000 members.

The draft is fixable.

 

[Elixuh]

So the majority of the teams, talent and fans of the sport come from one place. I concede this creates issues, but ones that are impossible to fix. Any elimination or relocation of Victorian teams will result in fewer fans. It didn't matter so much in 1996 because Fitzroy had fewer than 8000 members. North had the smallest membership among Melbourne clubs in 2024 and had over 50,000 members.

The draft is fixable.

So in essence we disagree on the solution. My view is you have to create inequalities to balance other inequalities.

I think your view of an entirely unencumbered draft as being an equal and fair system is massively flawed.

 

[The Punter]

So in essence we disagree on the solution. My view is you have to create inequalities to balance other inequalities.

I think your view of an entirely unencumbered draft as being an equal and fair system is massively flawed.

And my view is an encumbered draft is pointless and massively flawed. Either have the draft as designed (the NFL designed it in 1935) or do it another way without a draft.

 

[Elixuh]

And my view is an encumbered draft is pointless and massively flawed. Either have the draft as designed (the NFL designed it in 1935) or do it another way without a draft.

The nfl doesn’t have 10 teams, over half the comp, in one city. And talent comes from across the country.

We have a system which is flawed but which is close to the best we will get with the issues I have described in mind.

St Kildas issues which are outside their control are primarily from within the VFL market as you can’t hold players and you can’t attract players. There are reasons for that.

Terrible drafting over the years hasn’t helped. This idea that things would be different if the Northern Academies didn’t exist is a pure fiction and is being used as a distraction by your board and executive for the Saints membership.

 

[WillHayward]

Free Agency is a big fairness distorter and it strongly favours the big Vic clubs. The often played Go Home Card another that favours Vic clubs, albeit we have done very nicely of late

SA also just won the under 18s as well.
Crows looking strong.

Big issue is FA isn't really working for small Melbourne clubs. North and the Saints having been talking about "war chests" for a decade but it doesn't help.

Bigger Melbourne clubs offer big games at the G and the chance of a flag.

Examples include

Tom Lynch heavily back ended contracts to Richmond.

Ben King probable move to the Pies in 2027.

 

[WillHayward]

The nfl doesn’t have 10 teams, over half the comp, in one city. And talent comes from across the country.

We have a system which is flawed but which is close to the best we will get with the issues I have described in mind.

St Kildas issues which are outside their control are primarily from within the VFL market as you can’t hold players and you can’t attract players. There are reasons for that.

Terrible drafting over the years hasn’t helped. This idea that things would be different if the Northern Academies didn’t exist is a pure fiction and is being used as a distraction by your board and executive for the Saints membership.

The national comp is doomed without northern academies because the draft player pool is dwindling in Victoria.

Get rid of northern academies means a return to the VFL and a local provincial comp.

 

[The Punter]

The nfl doesn’t have 10 teams, over half the comp, in one city. And talent comes from across the country.

We have a system which is flawed but which is close to the best we will get with the issues I have described in mind.

St Kildas issues which are outside their control are primarily from within the VFL market as you can’t hold players and you can’t attract players. There are reasons for that.

Terrible drafting over the years hasn’t helped. This idea that things would be different if the Northern Academies didn’t exist is a pure fiction and is being used as a distraction by your board and executive for the Saints membership.

Our executive might be mistaken but it is not a deliberate distraction. Our picks consistently get shunted lower and lower in the draft. I'm happy to run the experiment on an uncompromised draft to see if we can return up the ladder: the last time the draft was so unencumbered we were bottom 3 for 3 years and then started a run two years later where we played in 5 prelims and 2 grand finals in 7 years, with an administration, recruiting and home base not nearly as professional as it is now.

I understand the inclination of a Brisbane fan to keep the system as it is: you just won the premiership then added arguably the best player in the draft that no other team had access to and no other team received compensation for.

And the NFL does have a league played in a provincial sport where players cannot go to another country to ply their trade. It's an apt comparison. If the NFL's draft isn't suitable for the AFL, use a different way to get players onto lists.

 

[Elixuh]

Our executive might be mistaken but it is not a deliberate distraction. Our picks consistently get shunted lower and lower in the draft. I'm happy to run the experiment on an uncompromised draft to see if we can return up the ladder: the last time the draft was so unencumbered we were bottom 3 for 3 years and then started a run two years later where we played in 5 prelims and 2 grand finals in 7 years, with an administration, recruiting and home base not nearly as professional as it is now.

I understand the inclination of a Brisbane fan to keep the system as it is: you just won the premiership then added arguably the best player in the draft that no other team had access to and no other team received compensation for.

And the NFL does have a league played in a provincial sport where players cannot go to another country to ply their trade. It's an apt comparison. If the NFL's draft isn't suitable for the AFL, use a different way to get players onto lists.

Even with all these grand advantages the lions have we were still down the bottom of the ladder for around 10 years. So that argument doesn’t really fly.

 

[The Punter]

Even with all these grand advantages the lions have we were still down the bottom of the ladder for around 10 years. So that argument doesn’t really fly.

If you don't think a single St Kilda supporter would happily trade 10 years at the bottom for a flag, I don't know what to tell you.

The Premiers getting exclusive access to the best player in a draft renders the draft meaningless and completely ineffective. Wouldn't it just be easier if you just signed him? Why go through the charade?

 

[Elixuh]

If you don't think a single St Kilda supporter would happily trade 10 years at the bottom for a flag, I don't know what to tell you.

The Premiers getting exclusive access to the best player in a draft renders the draft meaningless and completely ineffective. Wouldn't it just be easier if you just signed him? Why go through the charade?

Not every list build results in a flag. The mighty Sainters played finals and finished 6th as recently as 2023. These arguments are getting a bit ridiculous now.

Your list is the way it is because of historically poor drafting and inability to attract and hold talent. The northern academies, fs etc have nothing to do with that.

There are plenty of great players on the lions list who the saints could have drafted as you had picks before ours.

 

[The Punter]

Not every list build results in a flag. The mighty Sainters played finals and finished 6th as recently as 2023. These arguments are getting a bit ridiculous now.

Your list is the way it is because of historically poor drafting and inability to attract and hold talent. The northern academies, fs etc have nothing to do with that.

There are plenty of great players on the lions list who the saints could have drafted as you had picks before ours.

More greatest rhetorical hits. Look to find a St Kilda fan who thinks we have drafted (or developed) our players well. You'll be looking a while.

Something else can also be true at the same time. We've fixed up our drafting, are clearly developing better, and it's getting us nowhere. We can't access the top of the draft, which is agreed to be where the best players are. A comparable stretch (which I quoted) in 2013-2015 to 2000-2002n netted us two top five picks compared to five in the earlier period. North can't climb, West Coast can't climb. The bottom is never, ever been further from the top in the AFL era. The draft is contributing to that.

 

[mighty_lions]

So the majority of the teams, talent and fans of the sport come from one place. I concede this creates issues, but ones that are impossible to fix. Any elimination or relocation of Victorian teams will result in fewer fans. It didn't matter so much in 1996 because Fitzroy had fewer than 8000 members. North had the smallest membership among Melbourne clubs in 2024 and had over 50,000 members.

The draft is fixable.

They are possible to fix, it’s called an academy

 

[Elixuh]

More greatest rhetorical hits. Look to find a St Kilda fan who thinks we have drafted (or developed) our players well. You'll be looking a while.

Something else can also be true at the same time. We've fixed up our drafting, are clearly developing better, and it's getting us nowhere. We can't access the top of the draft, which is agreed to be where the best players are. A comparable stretch (which I quoted) in 2013-2015 to 2000-2002n netted us two top five picks compared to five in the earlier period. North can't climb, West Coast can't climb. The bottom is never, ever been further from the top in the AFL era. The draft is contributing to that.

I’m on my phone so can’t do it but can you go from say 2012 to now and tell me where the saints finished on the ladder, where they picked in the draft and who they took?

 

[The Punter]

I’m on my phone so can’t do it but can you go from say 2012 to now and tell me where the saints finished on the ladder, where they picked in the draft and who they took?

There's no need for you to go on a PC to read this:

St Kilda has drafted and developed talent poorly. You won't get an argument from a St Kilda supporter on this.

It also has no relevance to the draft being broken. We haven't drafted poorly in some time now and we can't climb the ladder because we're picking at 10 instead of 7. Because of who someone's dad is.

 

[The Punter]

They are possible to fix, it’s called an academy

That's not fixing the draft, it's replacing it. Be intellectually honest: call for the draft to be abolished.

 

[littlecreatures]

This is laughable you’ve named a handful of players over a span of quarter of a century from where 60 percent of the Australian population live, no wonder st kilda supporters are unhinged, now go through every Victorian you have drafted since 2000 and list them below please

You asked the question “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. Don’t ask the question if you don’t like the answer. Evidently, there’s been a body of players drafted from QLD prior to Northern academies which now would be siphoned to 4 clubs.

 

[mighty_lions]

That's not fixing the draft, it's replacing it. Be intellectually honest: call for the draft to be abolished.

The draft doesn’t need “fixing”

 

[mighty_lions]

You asked the question “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. Don’t ask the question if you don’t like the answer. Evidently, there’s been a body of players drafted from QLD prior to Northern academies which now would be siphoned to 4 clubs.

You started listing players from nsw, which part of Queensland is NSW in

 

[mighty_lions]

You started listing players from nsw, which part of Queensland is NSW in

A body? How many what percentage of the draft ?

 

[Elixuh]

There's no need for you to go on a PC to read this:

St Kilda has drafted and developed talent poorly. You won't get an argument from a St Kilda supporter on this.

It also has no relevance to the draft being broken. We haven't drafted poorly in some time now and we can't climb the ladder because we're picking at 10 instead of 7. Because of who someone's dad is.

Yeah so hitting a few drafts well will not undo a decade of shit drafting. The lions went through this. Plenty of teams do.

We spent years right at the bottom hitting the draft hard - multiple first round picks per draft. We nailed the picks and here we are.

The saints haven’t done this.

 

[The Punter]

Yeah so hitting a few drafts well will not undo a decade of shit drafting. The lions went through this. Plenty of teams do.

We spent years right at the bottom hitting the draft hard. We nailed the picks and here we are.

The saints haven’t done this.

Yeah but that is kind of my point. There was a time when the draft did it's (only) job so well hitting "a few drafts well" sent you up the ladder. It doesn't any more, because if it did, North would be playing finals by now.

 

[mighty_lions]

Yeah but that is kind of my point. There was a time when the draft did its (only) job so well hitting "a few drafts well" sent you up the ladder. It doesn't any more, because if it did, North would be playing finals by now.

Lol what time was this??? You need to draft AND trade well, st kilda has done neither

 

[Elixuh]

Yeah but that is kind of my point. There was a time when the draft did it's (only) job so well hitting "a few drafts well" sent you up the ladder. It doesn't any more, because if it did, North would be playing finals by now.

‘there was a time’ - lol this was a few years ago.

North is a great example! They’ve lost talent, including number 1 picks. They don’t have a functioning backline. The rest of their squad is developing nicely. These builds also take time.

Our build really started in 2014. We didn’t get off the bottom of the ladder until 2019.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Almost a quarter of junior footy participation is in QLD and NSW combined. Any identifiable talent is

You asked the question “how many qld kids got drafted before academies existed vs now”. Don’t ask the question if you don’t like the answer. Evidently, there’s been a body of players drafted from QLD prior to Northern academies which now would be siphoned to 4 clubs.

Here's an interesting fact. QLD and NSW now account for 22% of all community football participation.

Football community sets new participation record in 2024

Participation in Australian Rules Football has broken the all-time record

www.afl.com.au

30,000+ (23%+) of all AUSkicker's come from QLD alone. That's more than SA at 12,000

The most awesome club just got bigger!

More than 128,000 children around Australia have joined the biggest, most awesome club of all in 2024 – NAB AFL Auskick – to break the program’s all-time registered participation record

www.afl.com.au

Northern clubs have now got to a point where there is no issues with local participation and ever growing junior talent pool.

 

[mighty_lions]

Almost a quarter of junior footy participation is in QLD and NSW combined. Any identifiable talent is

Here's an interesting fact. QLD and NSW now account for 22% of all community football participation.

Football community sets new participation record in 2024

Participation in Australian Rules Football has broken the all-time record

www.afl.com.au

30,000+ (23%+) of all AUSkicker's come from QLD alone. That's more than SA at 12,000

The most awesome club just got bigger!

More than 128,000 children around Australia have joined the biggest, most awesome club of all in 2024 – NAB AFL Auskick – to break the program’s all-time registered participation record

www.afl.com.au

Northern clubs have now got to a point where there is no issues with local participation and ever growing junior talent pool.

What’s your point ? 60 percent of the population comes from nsw and qld so it’s still under represented even at local level