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St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

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If the AFL is funding Brisbane GWS and Sydney academies they the way they are the Suns (~$2m pa). Then we are mostly there already.
$2m is the Suns' annual spend on their academy, at least some of which is funded by sponsorship, not entirely from AFL distribution.

and therein lies the rub. You use "grow the game" as a moral ground for unhindered access, a discount, and being able to bundle 3rd round picks for top 5 talent.

But if the access is taken away, it's not worth your time?
Of course it isn't. We're not a charity. We're here to win premierships, not to help other clubs win premierships.

The AFL in all their wisdom decided to hand northern clubs the responsibility of junior development when they should be focusing solely on winning premierships, because the AFL themselves did the job poorly when they tried it. They weren't willing to do what it took to do the job properly, due to their own laziness and incompetence. You can see the same laziness and incompetence on full display every time they chop and change the trade and draft rules, when entirely foreseeable outcomes come to pass, that any competent organisation would have wargamed for already.

Honestly, I'd hand back all the academies at the end of this year if the AFL were willing to take responsibility, properly this time, giving the amount of funding it actually requires to bring the skills of Queensland and NSW kids up to scratch with those playing in better youth competitions, and draw more kids to the game who wouldn't have otherwise. I see it as a win if the Lions can focus entirely on winning flags and still have more talented Queenslanders available to draft if we want to avoid the go home factor. I just don't think AFL house will do it, when they could just sit around scratching their arses and continue to make millions each year.

Why should it matter how would have "gone down?" If it makes the competition more equitable then the AFL should have the balls to go through with it regardless of what certain clubs think.
They should, but they don't. You know as well as I do that the AFL will listen to whatever Collingwood and Carlton demand of them. When one of them suffer, then someone might take it seriously.

No one's saying that the Northern clubs are out to get St Kilda, just that the system is currently set up in a way that has disadvantaged us and other clubs, particularly the other 4 non-Victorian clubs.
Your organisation is effectively saying that, by demanding the immediate dismantlement of northern academies and replacing them with NGAs. If the problem for them was the system as a whole, then they should have demanded an end to all academy access for everyone, including NGAs, with the AFL running them all instead. That would have been a stance I could respect.

Instead, it comes across as self-serving rather than principled. The Australian Rules-dominant states will produce far more NGA talent, because more of the athletic immigrant and Indigenous kids will choose to play Australian Rules if it's the dominant sport in the area and has little to no competition from the rugby codes. It'll create a system where the Mac Andrews of the world still make it to the AFL and are club-tied, but the Isaac Heeneys of the world take the riches on offer to them at a young age from the rugby codes.

St Kilda are pretending youth development is a level playing field between states when it's clearly not. It really does seem like St Kilda are saying the Northern clubs are out to get them.

I am rambling here, but my general point is asking if a true build through the draft can be achieved under the current system?
Of course. Hawthorn have done it already and Richmond are in the process of doing it now.
 
Of course. Hawthorn have done it already and Richmond are in the process of doing it now.

Two clubs that benefitted massively from all of the changes in the 2010’s. The Hawks added Frawley to a premiership quality list and peaked right as the two expansion clubs were beginning their journey. The Tigers won a flag and added the best free agent that year in Tom Lynch. Point being, they are two clubs who don’t have to sell hope because they’ve both won multiple flags in the last 10 years. It’s a completely different situation, and I’m fully aware of how pathetic the Saints look and sound when reading this back, but context matters.
 
Two clubs that benefitted massively from all of the changes in the 2010’s. The Hawks added Frawley to a premiership quality list and peaked right as the two expansion clubs were beginning their journey. The Tigers won a flag and added the best free agent that year in Tom Lynch. Point being, they are two clubs who don’t have to sell hope because they’ve both won multiple flags in the last 10 years. It’s a completely different situation, and I’m fully aware of how pathetic the Saints look and sound when reading this back, but context matters.
You're shifting the goalposts here. They both melted down after their flags and built (or are building) back up through the draft.
 
You're shifting the goalposts here. They both melted down after their flags and built (or are building) back up through the draft.

Alright, I’ll address your point directly.

The Hawks have a good list, would you argue it’s great? I’m of the opinion that they have the best coach in the league and I would argue they’re overachieving. In my opinion this list with Brad Scott coaching it looks very different.

The jury is still out on Richmond, there’s been plenty of new rebuilds that take a few scalps and then fall away badly as the reality sets in. It’s year 1 and they drafted 6 kids in one go. History says that half make it. I’m not going to use this as a measuring stick, especially when they only fast tracked this rebuild because the Taranto and Hopper quick fix backfired and 4 of their best players wanted to jump off the sinking ship.
 

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How do you reckon it would've gone down at Ikon Park last year if Carlton had been told you can have Ben Camporeale, but you can't have Lucas Camporeale? How would Collingwood fans have reacted if they were told you can have Callum Brown, but you can't have Josh Daicos? Essendon fans being told you can have Alwyn Davey, but not Jayden Davey? Hawks fans being told you can have Will McCabe, but you can't have Calsher Dear? Bulldogs fans being told you can have Mitch Wallis, but you can't have Tom Liberatore?

Not sure the big Vic clubs are going to be pleased about that suggestion from the Saints.
They would have sucked it up like every other club when a player they want is drafted by somewhere else. Or that can acquire an appropriate pick and draft them when it's their turn.
 
Alright, I’ll address your point directly.

The Hawks have a good list, would you argue it’s great? I’m of the opinion that they have the best coach in the league and I would argue they’re overachieving. In my opinion this list with Brad Scott coaching it looks very different.
I'd argue it's pretty good, not great, but then they as a team are pretty good, not great. Best coach in the league is a bold call when Dimma and Clarko have won multiple premierships, Fagan won one after multiple players did their ACL, Fly won one in his first few years, etc.

But that's all besides the point. They drafted the cattle that they're performing with, whether overachieving or not. Overachieving with poor players alone wouldn't make a top 5 team.

The jury is still out on Richmond, there’s been plenty of new rebuilds that take a few scalps and then fall away badly as the reality sets in. It’s year 1 and they drafted 6 kids in one go. History says that half make it. I’m not going to use this as a measuring stick, especially when they only fast tracked this rebuild because the Taranto and Hopper quick fix backfired and 4 of their best players wanted to jump off the sinking ship.
They'll be fine, give it a couple of years and they'll be rising pretty quickly, I predict. And there's also Melbourne who built themselves up mostly through the draft.
 
They’re the myths …. But here are the facts that explode those myths -
“… a proper examination of the fixture shows that a number of Melbourne clubs have exactly the same travel burden as the Pies, and most who have worse have chosen to take games elsewhere:

• Carlton – 6 matches outside the greater Melbourne area
• Collingwood – 6 matches outside the greater Melbourne area
• Essendon – 6 matches outside greater Melbourne area
• Geelong – 6 matches outside greater Melbourne area
• Richmond – 6 matches outside greater Melbourne area
• Melbourne – 7 matches outside greater Melbourne area (including home game taken to NT)
• Western Bulldogs 7 matches outside greater Melbourne area (including 1 home game taken to Ballarat)
• St Kilda – 7 matches outside greater Melbourne area
• Hawthorn – 10 matches outside greater Melbourne area (including 4 games sold to Tasmania)
• North Melbourne – 10 matches outside greater Melbourne area (including 2 home games taken to Hobart, 2 home games taken to WA, and a Hawks home game in TAS) …”

So by your criteria you are saying that apart from the Hawks and North who sold games interstate all the other Melbourne teams have a similar fixture?

Collingwood doesnt get favourabke fixturing that places it ahead of others that in turn makes it a more attractive destination club?

Is that what you are trying to say?
 
I disagree.
King is overrated.
The other 2 haven't proven anything.
Wilson can't even get a game.

Yeah we picked up a 2x AA for $900k pa.
You can't get a bite offering $1.7m for 1 player.

Tauru and Trav will likely be the next Coffield and Clark. Another wasted draft.

That's why we play finals and the Saints don't.
Fair call our drafting history has been pretty bad can’t hide from that . One thing I can guarantee you though after watching his vfl games tauru will be a star absolute X factor player
why would the clubs run them for no benefit wtf are you on about
Is it not a clubs responsibility to promote the game especially to juniors , every club has access to all players in the draft it’s called being fair and having an even playing field. Fair enough when a club is being setup give them priority access for 5 years , but it’s a ridiculous situation that clubs are basically given free first round picks every season on top of there normal picks . At the very least the bottom 4 clubs should be given priority to access to any players in the draft if a academy or father son falls in that zone that’s bad luck
 
I would say its fair, its father son we would have no right to them, they dont even come into the equation, effectively you still get the number 1 pick
no I didnt, if we finished last and had pick 1, and st Kilda had Riewoldt-mclaughlan touted as pick 1, I would think its entirely fair st Kilda get the father son, and we would still get the number 1 pick available
Your not getting access to the best player in the draft though are you
 
Here's the problem - you don't know when another club is going to bid on Fincher - but history shows opposition clubs will force others to use their earlier pick if it's around about the predicted bid. So let's say Fincher finishes the season well and becomes a top 12 prospect. It's almost guaranteed that a club will bid on Fincher before St Kilda's first round pick rolls around in order to take them out of the picture so they don't double up their first round draftees.

This is the exact reason Essendon traded away their pick 8 last year because they had been led to believe that St Kilda were going to bid on Kako with pick 7, even though his real draft value was around pick 15. In the end, he was bid on with pick 13 and Essendon matched the bid with several picks in the 20s & 30s. So that's the game you play when it comes to these situations. Opposition clubs won't like it if St Kilda get pick 5 + another first round pick in Fincher and will almost definitely force the Saints to use any earlier picks to avoid the double up.

So you can probably say goodbye to your pick 5 unless Fincher really drops away in terms of his draft value. Your pick 5 likely becomes a player valued in the teens + another pick or two in the 20s or 30s.
Maybe.

Ashcroft was seen as the best kid in the draft last year and he didn't get a bid until pick 4. Clubs seem to 'play nice' with these things to bank goodwill for future deals.

The Blues grabbed both Camporeale twins lower than expected.

As did Essendon and Kako.

We had the same with Owens and Windhager. Both were talked about in the late teens, early 20s range. No bids came until late.

If Fincher is a 10-15 prospect then a bid probably comes in around 18-20. Either way, if clubs are being forced to pay more for top draft picks that's a good thing.
 
So by your criteria you are saying that apart from the Hawks and North who sold games interstate all the other Melbourne teams have a similar fixture?

Collingwood doesnt get favourabke fixturing that places it ahead of others that in turn makes it a more attractive destination club?

Is that what you are trying to say?
It ain’t just me and it ain’t just “trying” - the article clearly sets out how the Pies do not get favourable treatment “that places it ahead of others” compared to the other Victorian clubs. Can you find any factual errors in the article? -
 

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I hate doing this, but I’ll do you a solid and give you the answer for free.

The lions aren’t stopping you from being successful. The other teams around you down in Melbourne who pay players millions outside the cap and prevent you from attracting any talent are. TDK is about to choose Carlton over the Saints despite the Saints offering $5m more over the life of the deal. How do you think they’re going to make TDK whole?
The saints have recognised their own shortfalls.

Every northern club & their supporters fail to recognise the significant advantage they have. Your academies give you access to talent only you can take. So you knew you had a top 5 midfielder in the draft each year for the last 3 (including this year) and you have also had Fletcher and Marshall on top.

The cost has been your first round pick and you have cleaned up a top 5 talent and a top 20 talent off the back of that as a starting point.

The reality is that if my club wanted a top 5 pick we would need to trade multiple first round picks across multiple years to get one but lose out on access in other drafts or lose a good player. You retained your entire list.

Father sons are in the same boat.

So last year we lost battle to draft at 8 and 10. You lost no one and won the flag but drafted at 5 + 20 or whenever Marshall went.

The equivalent of northern academy would be the Sandringham dragons for stkilda. But if we had that level of access every club would be crying because it’s an absolute talent factory.

If you had to pay for FAIR value to draft these kids. You wouldn’t be feeling so desperate to defend academies. You likely don’t even win your flag. Sydney likely don’t become so powerful in the last 15 years.

You all miss the absolute point of the issue as to why my club is against the current rules.
 
I wish they'd just do away with the point system.

A FS or Academy bid should have to use an actual pick in the same rnd (or within 17 picks), so no one gets pushed back.

Ie if pick 5 is used to bid on a Brisbane FS last year, they would have to use pick 18. If they traded that away - too bad - they would have to find a way to trade up into 1st rnd. They get a bargain, but at least have to use a first rounder.

If a club has pick 5, but bid is pick 6, they have to use pick 5 or choose not to draft them.

All fs, academy bids should be locked in & matched Pre draft night.

Second round will always start at pick 19
That was pretty much Amdrew Bassets main point at the best and fairest speech last year.

If Brisbane wanted to get Levi Ashcroft as premiers they would have to get pick 1.

No more 4 crappy picks = a top 5 pick via points.
 
The reality is that if my club wanted a top 5 pick we would need to trade multiple first round picks across multiple years to get one but lose out on access in other drafts or lose a good player. You retained your entire list.
Not just retain their list - they were able to add Dunkley and bring in two top 12 picks in one trade period without losing anyone of significance.
 
Why are we fighting policies that help expand the already very limited talent pool in our league? Look at all this extra talent that is now available to our sport.

Keep the northern academies. They are a roaring success. But stop giving out first round compensation picks to clubs that cannot retain players.
 
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Why are we fighting policies that help expand the already very limited talent pool in our league? Look at all this extra talent that is now available to our sport.

Keep the jrothern academies. They are a roaring success. But stop giving out first round compensation picks to clubs that cannot retain players.
That’s one way to show you have 0 understanding of the issue at hand.
 
Saints are an insipid rabble but I support them on this one. May as well just go back to zones and do away with the draft if half the top talent is going to be club tied anyway.
“Insipid rabble” yet we’re the only club that’s had the balls to call out the obvious draft rorts.
 
That was pretty much Amdrew Bassets main point at the best and fairest speech last year.

If Brisbane wanted to get Levi Ashcroft as premiers they would have to get pick 1.

No more 4 crappy picks = a top 5 pick via points.

No it isn’t. Fred Basset is talking about academies. Levi Ashcroft is a father son.

So in essence he is salty about all the top end draft picks the bris academy has produced - checks notes - pick 14 Eric Hipwood. End list.

I’m sure with the AFL basically being run by two northern club ceos that this definitely won’t fall on deaf ears.

If I’m a saints member I’d be stoked that the only time my club shoots a shot is offield to complain about the Brisbane lions.
 

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St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access


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