Opinion Is father-son access going to heavily dictate the next decade of premiers?

[Matchu]

We saw the massive influence Darcy Moore

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Darcy Moore

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28

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203cm

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100kg

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11.1

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7.0

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4.1

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1.6

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169.1

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13.9

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7.3

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6.6

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4.9

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0.7

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182.0

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87.4

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and the Daicos boys had on Collingwood winning the flag this year and one could make a strong argument that a healthy Will Ashcroft on Grand Final day would have flipped that premiership in Brisbane's favour. Is this going to be the trend moving forward? The club that gets the luckiest with the F/S rule (i.e top 10 picks) is in the best position to win a flag?

I'd even potentially put my club in this boat with Jason Horne-Francis, who technically wasn't a F/S pick, but was heavily linked to Port because of Fabian and of course ended up at Alberton after one season at the wooden spoon Roos. He joins the club and suddenly Port go from 11th to 3rd on the ladder.

My understanding is father-sons for Brisbane (L.Ashcroft), Adelaide (T.Welsh) and Carlton (B.Camporeale) are all rated as top 10 picks for next year.

Discuss.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Father/sons are very much still luck of the draw via genetics 18 years in the making.

Now that only the Northern clubs can match Acadmy bids, watch how uneven the competition becomes as at least 2 of Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast and Brisbane start regularly finishing in the top 4 every single year. That's what needs to be addressed.

Unlike a genetic luck of the draw, a club North of the border can simply pluck the most promising looking athlete who moved interstate as a kid and get priority access to them.

I know there has been debate about Nick Blakey

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Nick Blakey

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24

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196cm

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83kg

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9.9

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7.0

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2.9

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2.4

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189.1

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D

8.1

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6.3

3star

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1.9

1star

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2.1

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2.6

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189.1

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7.2

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5.2

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2.0

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1.2

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1.2

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and whether being a father/son should take priority over an academy, however the fact a father/son can even be listed in an academy is strange enough in its own right. I always assumed the concept existed to provide a pathway for talented athletes to make it at the elite level in a sport they may not have grown up playing or originally considered.

 

[Matchu]

Father/sons are very much still luck of the draw via genetics 18 years in the making.

Now that only the Northern clubs can match Acadmy bids, watch how uneven the competition becomes as at least 2 of Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast and Brisbane start regularly finishing in the top 4 every single year. That's what needs to be addressed.

Unlike a genetic luck of the draw, a club North of the border can simply pluck the most promising looking athlete who moved interstate as a kid and get priority access to them.

I know there has been debate about Nick Blakey and whether being a father/son should take priority over an academy, however the fact a father/son can even be listed in an academy is strange enough in its own right. I always assumed the concept existed to provide a pathway for talented athletes to make it at the elite level in a sport they may not have grown up playing or originally considered.

I see where you're coming from but none of the northern clubs have actually won a premiership during the academy era (2013-) which is where the argument kind of breaks down for me.

Brisbane as an example have only had one (late) first round pick come through their academy and make it at the AFL level which was Hipwood. They had two top 12 F/S picks come through last year alone and both would have played in the Grand Final in their first season had Ashcroft been healthy.

The point is that the F/S rule seems to be delivering more successful outcomes for clubs and that was on full display this year at the Pies. I'm looking at actual outcomes as opposed to predictions of future dominance.

 

[#gosaintas]

I see where you're coming from but none of the northern clubs have actually won a premiership during the academy era (2013-) which is where the argument kind of breaks down for me.

Brisbane as an example have only had one (late) first round pick come through their academy and make it at the AFL level which was Hipwood. They had two top 12 F/S picks come through last year alone and both would have played in the Grand Final in their first season had Ashcroft been healthy.

The point is that the F/S rule seems to be delivering more successful outcomes for clubs and that was on full display this year at the Pies. I'm looking at actual outcomes as opposed to predictions of future dominance.

Geelong won on the back of their F/S's

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Father/sons are very much still luck of the draw via genetics 18 years in the making.

Now that only the Northern clubs can match Acadmy bids, watch how uneven the competition becomes as at least 2 of Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast and Brisbane start regularly finishing in the top 4 every single year. That's what needs to be addressed.

Unlike a genetic luck of the draw, a club North of the border can simply pluck the most promising looking athlete who moved interstate as a kid and get priority access to them.

I know there has been debate about Nick Blakey and whether being a father/son should take priority over an academy, however the fact a father/son can even be listed in an academy is strange enough in its own right. I always assumed the concept existed to provide a pathway for talented athletes to make it at the elite level in a sport they may not have grown up playing or originally considered.

How would any of Luke Hodge’s kids know about AFL if not for the Lions academy?

We’d have lost them to badminton.

 

[GC2015]

How would any of Luke Hodge’s kids know about AFL if not for the Lions academy?

We’d have lost them to badminton.

I know you're joking but this does actually happen in the northern states. Triple premiership Lion Darryl White has two sons who played footy in Brisbane when they were younger but chose to pursue careers in basketball instead. One of them ended up playing for the Australian national team.

 

[BF Tiger]

How many F-S don’t make it or end up average role players?

 

[Golumless]

Probably - can't win a flag in this league without concessions somewhere down the line helping out.

Also counting JHF as a F/S pick is taking the piss. The key is the discount.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Father son
Home grand final
Free agency
Topping up lists

More than likely another decade of Vic teams dominating.

 

[Dogflogger]

Inside the father-son rule: How genetics have changed the AFL draft

On Wednesday and Thursday, teenagers with names familiar to older footy heads will arrive in the AFL via the father-son rule in the national draft. But does this recruitment technique give clubs a competitive advantage over others?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Dogflogger]

How many F-S don’t make it or end up average role players?

Even if they are duds they are cheaper than usual duds, other than that if you can get a handful of serviceble F/S onto one list it probably helps a fair bit from a list management point of view.

 

[Freomaniac]

We saw the massive influence Darcy Moore and the Daicos boys had on Collingwood winning the flag this year and one could make a strong argument that a healthy Will Ashcroft on Grand Final day would have flipped that premiership in Brisbane's favour. Is this going to be the trend moving forward? The club that gets the luckiest with the F/S rule (i.e top 10 picks) is in the best position to win a flag?

I'd even potentially put my club in this boat with Jason Horne-Francis, who technically wasn't a F/S pick, but was heavily linked to Port because of Fabian and of course ended up at Alberton after one season at the wooden spoon Roos. He joins the club and suddenly Port go from 11th to 3rd on the ladder.

My understanding is father-sons for Brisbane (L.Ashcroft), Adelaide (T.Welsh) and Carlton (B.Camporeale) are all rated as top 10 picks for next year.

Discuss.

funny that.

dockers only had one father son pick in my memory serves me correct: Brett Peake.

 

[Freomaniac]

Probably - can't win a flag in this league without concessions somewhere down the line helping out.

Also counting JHF as a F/S pick is taking the piss. The key is the discount.

Yeah true,

Savour those 1997 and 1998 flags mate.

Had your team had more luck, Crows could of made more grand finals and possibly should of got another flag or 2, possibly 3.

Should of made grand finals in these following years with already the 1997, 1998 and 2017 grand finals.....

-1993
-2002
-2005
-2006
-2012

 

[boncer34]

Yeah true,

Savour those 1997 and 1998 flags mate.

Had your team had more luck, Crows could of made more grand finals and possibly should of got another flag or 2, possibly 3.

Should of made grand finals in these following years with already the 1997, 1998 and 2017 grand finals.....

-1993
-2002
-2005
-2006
-2012

Nah. Essendon were the better team in 93.

I know the argument is they shouldn't have given up a 44 point lead but the flip also applies. They should never have had that lead.

 

[The 747]

How many F-S don’t make it or end up average role players?

Quite a few. My club and the Pies F/S players are probably the most visible (off the top of my head) but both clubs have taken a lot of F/S who didn't make it - and were pretty iffy draft selections even at the discount.

Obviously getting players like Hawkins and Ablett cheap made a big difference. And to be able to draft Joel Selwood at 7 and the nominal number 1 pick in one year (Hawkins) was a huge advantage and so the AFL changed those rules, like they did after the Doggies got Jamarra.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Nah. Essendon were the better team in 93.

I know the argument is they shouldn't have given up a 44 point lead but the flip also applies. They should never have had that lead.

93 is the year I curse my club not winning it all

 

[Back One Out]

Father/sons are very much still luck of the draw via genetics 18 years in the making.

Is it purely genetics?

Or is it the sons having an early interest/obsession in footy from watching their dad play AFL footy and acquiring skills from a very early age and receiving exactly the right type of encouragement and coaching from their dad all through their childhood? (also, not losing their love for the game because of pushy parenting. AFL footballer-dads would know not do that and keep it fun.)

Many other talented kids don't get that advantage. Footy is a game they see on TV and play with their mates at school and then they get more serious about it when they start playing junior footy, by which time they may developed bad habits or neglected certain skills.

I get the feeling with many players taken under the 'father-son' rule, they probably always knew their destiny was to play AFL football. There was no fairytale about doing so. They've seen it up close their entire lives, they look & learned, and knew exactly how to go about getting there. Just like any kid who follows in their father's footsteps. You see it with boxers, racecar drivers, mechanics, tradies, in business.

Obviously it helps to be naturally athletic and have good genes. But just as important is to have good habits from a young age - being active, jogging regularly, good diet, all that good stuff... But also getting in and having a crack, not being scared of contact, not sooking & walking away the first few times you get hurt.

 

[Freomaniac]

Nah. Essendon were the better team in 93.

I know the argument is they shouldn't have given up a 44 point lead but the flip also applies. They should never have had that lead.

I disagree Essendon was the Better side in 1993. There wasnt a standout side in 1993. Essendon didnt even make finals the year before in 1992, that was a 6 team finals series though. They didnt make finals in 1994, Michael Long doing his knee before the start of the 1994 season played a reason why.

1990 was also a tight season. yeah essendon was on top in 1990 with 17 wins and 5 losses. But Collingwood was 2nd, eagles 3rd and demons were 4th. all 3 sides had 16 wins each.

 

[boncer34]

I disagree Essendon was the Better side in 1993. There wasnt a standout side in 1993. Essendon didnt even make finals the year before in 1992, that was a 6 team finals series though. They didnt make finals in 1994, Michael Long doing his knee before the start of the 1994 season played a reason why.

1990 was also a tight season. yeah essendon was on top in 1990 with 17 wins and 5 losses. But Collingwood was 2nd, eagles 3rd and demons were 4th. all 3 sides had 16 wins each.

While you were looking at Essendon's ladder position in 92 and 94 did you happen to look at who finished directly below them in both of those seasons?

Essendon were better than Adelaide in '93. Simple.

 

[Dazb86]

It's still a mixed bag. Our early pick father sons don't seem to do as well as our later picks for some reason

 

[Lsta062]

I know you're joking but this does actually happen in the northern states. Triple premiership Lion Darryl White has two sons who played footy in Brisbane when they were younger but chose to pursue careers in basketball instead. One of them ended up playing for the Australian national team.

Can I ask you a question? What happened to Torney’s son Owen Torney? Do you think he’ll be drafted in the 2024 AFL draft?

He’s the potential Richmond father-son and a Gold Coast academy player that you once talked about on our board.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Father/sons are very much still luck of the draw via genetics 18 years in the making.

Now that only the Northern clubs can match Acadmy bids, watch how uneven the competition becomes as at least 2 of Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast and Brisbane start regularly finishing in the top 4 every single year. That's what needs to be addressed.

Unlike a genetic luck of the draw, a club North of the border can simply pluck the most promising looking athlete who moved interstate as a kid and get priority access to them.

I know there has been debate about Nick Blakey and whether being a father/son should take priority over an academy, however the fact a father/son can even be listed in an academy is strange enough in its own right. I always assumed the concept existed to provide a pathway for talented athletes to make it at the elite level in a sport they may not have grown up playing or originally considered.

Who cares if its luck of the draw. They are dramatically effecting premierships. Time for the league to put on its big boy pants and scrap all of these amateurish mechanisms of getting young elite talent.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Who cares if its luck of the draw. They are dramatically effecting premierships. Time for the league to put on its big boy pants and scrap all of these amateurish mechanisms of getting young elite talent.

It all has to go then.

I don't care if it's unpopular, but the acadmy set ups are far more egregious than access to father/sons.

 

[Caligo]

No.

 

[GC2015]

Can I ask you a question? What happened to Torney’s son Owen Torney? Do you think he’ll be drafted in the 2024 AFL draft?

He’s the potential Richmond father-son and a Gold Coast academy player that you once talked about on our board.

Good question. I know we let Jason go at the end of 2021 when our academy was overhauled and I believe Owen continued playing junior footy at Surfers Paradise in 2022 but I can't seem to find anything on him in 2023. Maybe he quit footy altogether because his old man was no longer involved?