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35Daicos

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INTERESTING WOODEN SPOON STATISTICS:

After the three new teams Hawthorn, North Melbourne and Footscray were admitted in 1925, Hawthorn and North claimed all wooden spoons for eight years, with the Kangaroos finishing last in 1926, 1929, 1930 and 1931 and the Hawks last in 1925, 1927, 1928 and 1932. The streak was broken when Essendon finished on the bottom of the ladder in 1933. Interestingly Footscray would not finish last until 1959.

From 1941 to 1955 inclusive with the exception of 1944 and 1951 where Geelong and Melbourne respectively finished last, all wooden spoons were won by either Hawthorn or St. Kilda. Hawthorn finished 1941, 1942, 1946, 1949, 1950 and 1953 in last position, while St. Kilda were last in 1943, 1945, 1947, 1948, 1952, 1954 and 1955.

The three 'Melbourne' teams had a firm hold on the wooden spoon from 1968-1975 inclusive. Melbourne were last in 1969 and 1974, North Melbourne took out the 1968, 1970 and 1972 wooden spoons and South Melbourne finished on the bottom of the ladder in 1971, 1973 and 1975.

The mid-late 1980s saw just two wooden spoon teams, with St. Kilda finishing bottom in 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986 and 1988 and Richmond last in 1987 and 1989.

The structure of the AFL/VFL has changed over the years due to teams being added or leaving or sides going into recess during the First and Second World Wars. This is a list of wooden spoons by ladder position - please note that there has never been a competition of 5, 7 or 13 teams so these numbers are not included.

4TH 1916 - Fitzroy (also Premiers)

6TH 1917 - Richmond

8TH 1897-1907, 1918: St Kilda 7 (1897, 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1904), Melbourne 2 (1905, 1906), Essendon 2 (1907, 1918), South Melbourne 1(1903)

9TH 1915, 1919-1924: St. Kilda 2 (1920, 1924), Melbourne 2 (1919, 1923), Geelong 1 (1915), Essendon 1 (1921), South Melbourne 1 (1922)

10TH 1908-1914: University 4 (1911, 1912, 1913, 1914), St Kilda 2 (1909, 1910), Geelong 1 (1908)

11TH 1942-1943: Hawthorn 1 (1942), St Kilda 1 (1943)

12TH 1925-1941, 1944-1986: North Melbourne 13 (1926, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1934, 1935, 1937, 1940, 1956, 1961, 1968, 1970, 1972); St. Kilda 12 (1945, 1947, 1948, 1952, 1954, 1955, 1977, 1979, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986); Hawthorn 11 (1925, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1941, 1946, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1965); South Melbourne 6 (1938, 1939, 1962, 1971, 1973, 1975); Melbourne 5 (1951, 1969, 1974, 1978, 1981); Fitzroy 5 (1936, 1963, 1964, 1966, 1980); Geelong 3 (1944, 1957, 1958); Footscray/WB 3 (1959, 1967, 1982); Collingwood 1 (1976); Essendon 1 (1933); Richmond 1 (1960)

14TH 1987-1990: Richmond 2 (1987, 1989); St. Kilda 1 (1988); Brisbane Bears 1 (1990)

15TH 1991-1994: Sydney Swans/SM 3 (1992, 1993, 1994); Brisbane Bears 1 (1991)

16TH 1995-2010: Carlton 3 (2002, 2005, 2006); Melbourne 3 (1997, 2008, 2009); Richmond 2 (2004, 2007); Fitzroy 2 (1995, 1996); Brisbane Lions 1 (1998), Collingwood 1 (1999), St. Kilda (2000), Fremantle 1 (2001), WB/Footscray 1 (2003), West Coast Eagles 1 (2010)

17TH 2011 - Gold Coast

18TH 2012-: GWS Giants 2 (2012, 2013), Carlton 2 (2015, 2018); St. Kilda 1 (2014), Essendon 1 (2016), Brisbane Lions 1 (2017)
It was a rather dubious decision, but a fair few years back the AFL ruled that Richmond (who were knocked out in a semi-final and as the lowest placed semi-final loser finished 4th after the finals) was the wooden spoon "winner" for 1916.

So, officially Fitzroy and Richmond have 7 wooden spoons each.
=====================================
I posted this on the topic earlier in the thread:
I see this topic has had a bit of a run around here in the past, but having given it a brief mention in a post in another thread thought I'd revisit it!

Many would argue that Fitzroy (last with just 2 wins and a draw at end of H&A) deserve to be classed as the 1916 Wooden Spoon "winner", and that for Richmond to be considered the wooden spooner is not fair. I always considered it football's best "fun fact" that Fitzroy were both wooden spooners and premiers in the same season, and it probably should not have been changed!!

Looking at the older AFL Record Season Guides (up to and including 2002) the AFL had Fitzroy as the 1916 Wooden Spoon team, and they included the comment "Only four clubs competed and Fitzroy finally won Premiership. Collingwood won only one match in the "Second Round" when all teams against played each other". In the 2003 book (and no doubt all of them since) Richmond is said to be the Wooden Spoon team for 1916, and no explanation is given regarding the change.

Curiously, there was an article on the AFL website (an edited version of a story published in the round-five edition of the AFL Record) as recently as 2016 which contradicts this:- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-23/fitzroys-remarkable-1916-season

IT’S PROBABLY footy’s most quirky and scarcely believable trivia question. Which team won the wooden spoon and the premiership in the same season? To the uninitiated, it’s an impossible proposition. But we assure you it’s not a trick question.

Fitzroy’s 1916 triumph is the greatest anomaly in Grand Final history.

So for that change to have been made in the AFL Record Season Guide I assume that it was decided "officially" c. 2002 to 'strip' Fitzroy of the 1916 Wooden Spoon and 'award' it to Richmond. Yet if so, why was there that Football Record/AFL website article all those years later that doesn't go along with it?! Confusing!!

I'm also puzzled as to why they bothered to mention Collingwood (in the comment about Fitzroy's 1916 season) at all in the older Season Guides. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see that what they got up to is relevant here!
 
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emuboy

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It was a rather dubious decision, but a fair few years back the AFL ruled that Richmond (who were knocked out in a semi-final and as the lowest placed semi-final loser finished 4th after the finals) was the wooden spoon "winner" for 1916.

So, officially Fitzroy and Richmond have 7 wooden spoons each.
=====================================
I posted this on the topic earlier in the thread:
I see this topic has had a bit of a run around here in the past, but having given it a brief mention in a post in another thread thought I'd revisit it!

Many would argue that Fitzroy (last with just 2 wins and a draw at end of H&A) deserve to be classed as the 1916 Wooden Spoon "winner", and that for Richmond to be considered the wooden spooner is not fair. I always considered it football's best "fun fact" that Fitzroy were both wooden spooners and premiers in the same season, and it probably should not have been changed!!

Looking at the older AFL Record Season Guides (up to and including 2002) the AFL had Fitzroy as the 1916 Wooden Spoon team, and they included the comment "Only four clubs competed and Fitzroy finally won Premiership. Collingwood won only one match in the "Second Round" when all teams against played each other". In the 2003 book (and no doubt all of them since) Richmond is said to be the Wooden Spoon team for 1916, and no explanation is given regarding the change.

Curiously, there was an article on the AFL website (an edited version of a story published in the round-five edition of the AFL Record) as recently as 2016 which contradicts this:- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-23/fitzroys-remarkable-1916-season

IT’S PROBABLY footy’s most quirky and scarcely believable trivia question. Which team won the wooden spoon and the premiership in the same season? To the uninitiated, it’s an impossible proposition. But we assure you it’s not a trick question.

Fitzroy’s 1916 triumph is the greatest anomaly in Grand Final history.

So for that change to have been made in the AFL Record Season Guide I assume that it was decided "officially" c. 2002 to 'strip' Fitzroy of the 1916 Wooden Spoon and 'award' it to Richmond. Yet if so, why was there that Football Record/AFL website article all those years later that doesn't go along with it?! Confusing!!

I'm also puzzled as to why they bothered to mention Collingwood (in the comment about Fitzroy's 1916 season) at all in the older Season Guides. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see that what they got up to is relevant here!
Only Richmond could get a wooden spoon more than 80 years after the season in question. It's strange that this quirky statistic was changed so many years later. Another quirky stat - 1916 is the only 6 year in which the Tigers played final football. Even very good Tiger teams in the 1920s, 1930s, 1960s and 1970s could not make the finals in 1926, 1936, 1966 and 1976.
 

35Daicos

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Only Richmond could get a wooden spoon more than 80 years after the season in question. It's strange that this quirky statistic was changed so many years later.
I don't recall there being a great outcry at the time when this decision must have been handed down, but I'd have thought Richmond in particular should have been rather unhappy about it. Perhaps the AFL just snuck it into the records and said nothing, and it's barely been noticed since!
 

Jukesy85

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The last time a team scored 100 points. Shows how big the streak really is.

Essendon: Round 4, 2019
Melbourne: Round 4, 2019
Brisbane: Round 3, 2019
GWS: Round 3, 2019
Western Bulldogs: Round 2, 2019
West Coast: Round 2, 2019
Geelong: Round 2, 2019
Collingwood: Round 2, 2019
Fremantle: Round 1, 2019
North Melbourne: Round 23, 2018
Adelaide: Round 23, 2018
Richmond: Round 21, 2018
Hawthorn: Round 20, 2018
Sydney: Round 17, 2018
St Kilda: Round 17, 2018
Port Adelaide: Round 13, 2018
Gold Coast: Round 2, 2018
Carlton: Round 11, 2016
Port now obviously have the second longest drought of a 100+ score - but have managed to score 87+ every game this season so far - and in ascending order as well!
R1 87 vs Melbourne, R2 88 vs Carlton, R3 90 vs Brisbane, R4 92 vs Richmond, R5 95 vs West Coast.
 

emuboy

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Richmond's senior team in the 1990s achieved something unusual - nothing!

The Tigers of the 1990s did not make a Grand Final and therefore could not win a premiership; they did not win a night premiership; they had some pretty bad years but they did not collect a wooden spoon this decade; and no Richmond player was Brownlow Medalist, Leading Goal Kicker or Rising Star.

I can't think of any other team which did not make a single addition to its trophy cabinet for an entire decade. St. Kilda in the 1930s came to mind but Bill Mohr led the goal-kicking in 1936.
 
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I don't recall there being a great outcry at the time when this decision must have been handed down, but I'd have thought Richmond in particular should have been rather unhappy about it. Perhaps the AFL just snuck it into the records and said nothing, and it's barely been noticed since!
That is exactly what happened, I reckon.

Same as changing the Essendon list of [alleged] B&F winners. Up to and including the 2004 season Guide, if the club list went back to the start of VFL times, Hugh Gavin was shown as winner of the 1903 award.

From 2005 onwards he is shown as winner of the 1902 award - a change made without explanation by AFL or EFC.

Of course, the early 2000s are when it became more widely known that the "Champion of the Colony" award was a myth and Gavin being named as 1903 winner of that was impossible - he played in the Goldfields comp in Kalgoorlie that year and couldn't have been EFC B&F either.

So no announcement = no embarrassment about stuff-up of years earlier.
 

35Daicos

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That is exactly what happened, I reckon.

Same as changing the Essendon list of [alleged] B&F winners. Up to and including the 2004 season Guide, if the club list went back to the start of VFL times, Hugh Gavin was shown as winner of the 1903 award.

From 2005 onwards he is shown as winner of the 1902 award - a change made without explanation by AFL or EFC.

Of course, the early 2000s are when it became more widely known that the "Champion of the Colony" award was a myth and Gavin being named as 1903 winner of that was impossible - he played in the Goldfields comp in Kalgoorlie that year and couldn't have been EFC B&F either.

So no announcement = no embarrassment about stuff-up of years earlier.
Yep, there was no story whatsoever made out of the fact that Dick Lee had lost one of his leading goalkicker (end of H&A) awards, after it was pointed out about a year ago that the official records had it wrong. Seriously embarrassing that should have been, especially after they gave out (retrospective) awards for such achievements (in 2004, I think), and a descendant of the Collingwood great would have taken home a sh**load of medals, one of which he wasn't entitled to! Prior to that prestigious awards ceremony somebody needed to check that everything added up okay, but a mistake that had been in the records for decades still went unnoticed!
 

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COACHES: 200+ GAMES, <50% WIN RATE AT ONE CLUB

32.95% - Bill Stephen (Fitzroy) - 68-1-145 = 214
39.91% - Ted Whitten (Footscray) - 91-0-137 = 228
44.98% - Wally Carter (North Melbourne) - 98-1-120 = 219
48.65% - Neale Daniher (Melbourne) - 108-1-114 = 223
--------------------------------------------------------------------
50.49% - Brad Scott (North Melbourne) - 104-0-102 = 206

Bill Stephen had 3 separate stints at Fitzroy and a 50% finals record.
Ted Whitten had 2 separate stints at Footscray, a 67% finals record and 1 grand final.
Wally Carter has 3 separate stints at North Melbourne, a 29% finals record and 1 grand final.
Neale Daniher had 1 stint at Melbourne, a 50% finals record and 1 grand final.
Brad Scott has had 1 stint at North Melbourne, a 50% finals record and no grand finals
 

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The Sydney Swans might have had a feeling of de ja vu - and not a good one - in their 22 point loss to Richmond on Saturday night.

The Tigers' 13.11-89 to 10.7-67 victory over the Swans was the exact same scoreline as the one in which Sydney lost the 2016 Grand Final to the Western Bulldogs.
 

emuboy

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ELUSIVE INDIVIDUAL AWARDS

The Gold Coast managed to produce a Brownlow Medalist in just their third season, but some individual awards seem to be very elusive for some clubs both in the AFL and in other high level leagues. Which individual awards have eluded certain clubs for some time? Here are some:

BROWNLOW MEDAL: No Port Adelaide player has ever won a Brownlow playing for the Power since their inception in 1997. GWS have also not had a Brownlow winner to date, but obviously their tenure has been much shorter than Port's.

COLEMAN MEDAL - Brisbane, playing as either the Bears or the Lions, has not had a player finish as leading goal-kicker for the season. Neither have Port Adelaide, nor the two relative new-comers in Gold Coast and GWS.

RISING STAR AWARD - Carlton and the Western Bulldogs have not produced a Rising Star winner for rookie of the year since its commencement in 1993.

MAGAREY MEDAL - Formed from the merger of the West Torrens Eagles and Woodville Warriors at the end of the 1990 season, the Woodville-West Torrens Eagles have achieved plenty in the SANFL in nearly 30 years since then, but no WWT Eagles player has ever won a Magarey Medal. This hoodoo goes back a long way with West Torrens and Woodville. The only Woodville player to win the award is Malcolm Blight in 1974, while you have to go all the way back to 1963 to find the last West Torrens Magarey Medalist in Lindsay Head.

MORRISH MEDAL - Previously awarded in the VFL Under 19s, this award moved to the TAC Cup when the competition commenced in 1992. Eleven of the twelve Victorian teams and even previous full-time teams the Tassie Mariners and NSW/ACT Rams have provided a Morrish Medalist, but not the Western Jets, one of the six foundation teams in this competition.
 

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rbartlett

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Only Richmond could get a wooden spoon more than 80 years after the season in question. It's strange that this quirky statistic was changed so many years later. Another quirky stat - 1916 is the only 6 year in which the Tigers played final football. Even very good Tiger teams in the 1920s, 1930s, 1960s and 1970s could not make the finals in 1926, 1936, 1966 and 1976.
Col at AFL confirmed to me a change was made in 2002 because "with all clubs competing in the finals, the interpretation was extended for that season, to include the finals, because all were taking part."
 
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Col at AFL confirmed to me a change was made in 2002 because "with all clubs competing in the finals, the interpretation was extended for that season, to include the finals, because all were taking part."
Well in that case, the interpretation is applied in an inconsistent manner.

The 1898, 1899 and 1900 seasons also had a series of home-and-away rounds and then ALL teams competing in finals. As results in 1916 at end of h&a rounds are not used to identify wooden spooners, results at end of h&a in the earlier three seasons do not count either. At end of finals in 1898 Carlton has a record of 0-3 17.5%; St Kilda has a record of 0-3 29.2%.

By the interpretation that AFL House uses for 1916, Carlton are w/s of 1898 not St Kilda.
 

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The full list of years when both Collingwood and Essendon have entered the ANZAC Day clash with a positive win record and multiple wins:

2019: Collingwood 3-2, won last 2 games; Essendon 3-2, won last 3 games

That's it. If you're wondering how many times it's been close:
- both teams with a positive win record: 5/25 (worst crowd: 88390; best crowd: 93373)
- both teams won last game: 6/25 (84894-93373)
- both teams won last 2 games: 1/25

In 2000, both teams started the year 5-0, but Collingwood lost in R6, so entered ANZAC Day with a 5-1 record while Essendon was 6-0.

At the other end of the scale:
- both teams with a negative win record: 3/25 (worst crowd: 70033; best crowd: 88999)
- both teams lost last game: 5/25 (70033-88999)
- both teams lost last 2 games: 2/25 (85082-88999)
 
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SunGirl89

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Thus from a small sample size, we should expect at least 88,000 people to tomorrow's game.

Key: home team denoted by colour of the year in the left column. 90000 crowds shaded in blue.

AFL - ANZAC Day.JPG
 

SunGirl89

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Aggregate MCG attendance for ANZAC Eve and ANZAC Day:

2015 - 58,175 + 88,395 = 146,570
2016 - 60,867 + 85,082 = 145,949
2017 - 85,657 + 87,685 = 173,342
2018 - 77,071 + 91,440 = 168,511
2019 - 72,774 + 92,241 = 165,015
 
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worbod

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Anzac Day draws in major competitions:

1914

VFL

Geelong 8.13 (61) vs Essendon 8.13 (61)

1914

VFL

Collingwood 8.8 (56) vs Carlton 6.20 (56)

1961

VFA

Box Hill 10.12 (72) vs Coburg 9.18 (72)

1984

ACTAFL

West Canberra 12.18 (90) vs Tuggeranong 13.12 (90)

1995

AFL

Collingwood 17.9 (111) vs Essendon 16.15 (111)

2008

SANFL

Norwood 11.12 (78) vs South Adelaide 11.12 (78)




Not necessarily a complete list. I have not been able to look deeply into the major leagues of NSW, Qld and ACT.
 

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Anzac Day draws in major competitions:

1914

VFL

Geelong 8.13 (61) vs Essendon 8.13 (61)

1914

VFL

Collingwood 8.8 (56) vs Carlton 6.20 (56)

1961

VFA

Box Hill 10.12 (72) vs Coburg 9.18 (72)

1984

ACTAFL

West Canberra 12.18 (90) vs Tuggeranong 13.12 (90)

1995

AFL

Collingwood 17.9 (111) vs Essendon 16.15 (111)

2008

SANFL

Norwood 11.12 (78) vs South Adelaide 11.12 (78)



Not necessarily a complete list. I have not been able to look deeply into the major leagues of NSW, Qld and ACT.
Really good stat. Though 1914 won't count, as Anzac landing took place the following year.
 

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TIMES PLAYED ON APRIL 25

40 - Essendon
35 - Collingwood
23 - Richmond
21 - Melbourne
20 - Carlton
19 - St Kilda
16 - Geelong, Sydney
13 - Hawthorn, North Melbourne
11 - Fremantle
10 - Fitzroy
9 - Western Bulldogs
5 - Brisbane
2 - Adelaide, Port Adelaide, West Coast
1 - Gold Coast, GWS, University
 

emuboy

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The Western Bulldogs after their loss to Fremantle last night slumped to a 2-4 win/loss record and while there is plenty of time for the Bulldogs to turn this around especially in a very even and unpredictable season like this one, it is looking more likely that the Bulldogs will not be playing in September this year.

If the Bulldogs don't qualify for the finals this year, it will be the third successive year that they have missed the finals since their premiership in 2016. It got me thinking; how many other teams have missed the finals for three consecutive years or more immediately after winning the flag? It was actually quite rare, and while plenty of teams have gone into medium to long term decline after Grand Final victories, most of them managed another finals appearance or two soon after their premiership. These were the only four examples I could find, and all many years ago:

HAWTHORN - 3 YEARS - 1979-1981: After beating North Melbourne in the 1978 Grand Final, Hawthorn did not make the finals in 1979, 1980 and 1981. However the Hawks quickly turned this around, finishing 3rd in 1982 and thrashing Essendon to win the 1983 premiership.

MELBOURNE - 4 YEARS - 1942-1945: The Demons ruthlessly dispatched Collingwood, Richmond and Essendon to win three successive premierships in 1939, 1940 and 1941, but the Second World War had an effect on Melbourne's team and the red and blues failed to make the finals at all in 1942-1945. The Demons returned to September action in 1946 finishing runner up to Essendon, remarkably the first time that Melbourne had finished runner up.

ESSENDON - 9 YEARS - 1913-1921: In fairness to the Bombers this drought is technically only 7 years as the club was in recess for two years (1916 & 1917) in the First World War, but it is still remarkable that close to a decade went by after Essendon beat South Melbourne in the 1912 Grand Final (second flag in a row) until they returned to the finals in 1922.

MELBOURNE - 22 YEARS - 1965-1986: This is the most amazing statistic, and unlikely to be broken. After beating Collingwood in the 1964 Grand Final, Melbourne would have to wait 23 years to appear in the finals again in 1987. And most remarkably, in all but 1976 when the Demons got sixth position, the Dees never really looked like challenging for the finals in these 22 seasons. Imagine if the Demons' 1964 premiership team got into a time machine the day after winning the Grand Final and went forward in time to the day of the Demons' next finals match, the 1987 Qualifying Final against North Melbourne. They would have found the world a very different place - decimal currency, color television, VCR's, video games, push button telephones, fax machines, Walkmans, MTV, new wave music, space shuttles, an actor holding the position of United States President and many other changes. In the VFL, they would have found no South Melbourne Swans but Sydney Swans following the relocation of the club in 1982, and two strange new entities called the West Coast Eagles and the Brisbane Bears which had just completed their first seasons in the league.
 
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