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Since 1970, only a relatively small number of sides have won 19 or more H & A games in the 41 completed 22 round seasons since then (excluding 1993).

Would Geelong's 91 Brownlow votes as a team be the fewest recieved by any side winning 19 or more games? Thankfully for this exercise 1976 and 1977 where double votes were counted no side won 19 games!
 
Catsace said:
Would Geelong's 91 Brownlow votes as a team be the fewest recieved by any side winning 19 or more games?
Click to expand...

Code: 
Year Cb Wn Vts
--------------
1971 Ha 19  87
1973 Co 19  82
1979 Ca 19  91
1985 Es 19  94
1988 Ha 19 100
1989 Ha 19 101
1991 WC 19 100
1995 Ca 20  99
2000 Es 21 116
2008 Ge 21 112
2009 St 20 110
2011 Co 20 111
2011 Ge 19  91
 
Ron The Bear said:
Code: 
Year Cb Wn Vts
--------------
1971 Ha 19  87
1973 Co 19  82
1979 Ca 19  91
1985 Es 19  94
1988 Ha 19 100
1989 Ha 19 101
1991 WC 19 100
1995 Ca 20  99
2000 Es 21 116
2008 Ge 21 112
2009 St 20 110
2011 Co 20 111
2011 Ge 19  91
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.....was surprised the excellent Carlton side of 1979 had just 91 as well, they only lost three games narrowly all year. Collingwood's 1973 side might have been a result of being a very even but unspectacular side.

Hawks 1971, again very low. perhaps Hudson being the leading goalkicker with 150 and the general reluctance of full forwards getting votes could have reduced that total. But certainly Geelong's this season is the lowest in the last 20-odd seasons for 19 wins or more. Particularly in the era where generally the winning side gets the majority of the best on grounds.
 

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In round 15 Gary Ablett polled 3 votes in a 50 point loss against Fremantle.

Chris Judd also polled 3 votes in a 53 point loss to Collingwood in round 6 of last year.

My question is who has polled 3 votes in the losing side when the margin is 40+ points.
 
St Oxley said:
My question is who has polled 3 votes in the losing side when the margin is 40+ points.
Click to expand...

Code: 
LM Player              Cb Year Rd Op  K  H  M  G
------------------------------------------------
65 Williams, Greg      Ge 1985  3 WB 17 22  6  0
60 McGregor, Anthony   Fi 1994 22 Ri 12  8  4  0
59 Bain, David         Br 1990  8 WC 16  3  7  1
57 Ablett junior, Gary GC 2011  8 Ad 18 23  0  4
55 Millane, Darren     Co 1987 20 Me 19 11  9  0
54 Dwyer, Mick         St 1989  5 Es 11  5  6  2
53 Judd, Chris         Ca 2010  6 Co 15 22  5  0
52 Buckley, Nathan     Co 1998 14 Br 22  9  4  4
51 Goodes, Adam        Sy 2009  7 Ge 14 13  4  2
50 Tzatzaris, Zeno     WB 1989 19 Ge 12  2  7  0
50 King, Clinton       Co 1999  4 Ri 12 12  3  1
50 Ablett junior, Gary GC 2011 15 Fr 20 14  4  3
48 Hughes, Danny R.    Me 1987 14 Fi 15  1  7  0
47 Lockett, Tony       St 1987  4 Me 18  2 14 12
47 Carey, Wayne        NM 1992 20 WB 23  5 17  4
46 Kelly, Paul         Sy 1992 19 WB 14 11  3  2
46 Daniher, Chris      Es 1992 24 Ge 21  7  6  0
45 Shaw, Tony          Co 1985 21 WB 30 15  6  0
45 Hanna, Mil          Ca 1991  4 Me 13  8  4  8
45 Holland, Nick       Ha 1995 21 NM 17  8  9  0
44 Knights, Matthew    Ri 1993  3 WC 21  7  4  2
44 McAdam, Gilbert     Br 1995 12 NM 18 12  8  0
43 Mossop, John        Ge 1984  8 Es 12 11 13  1
43 Greig, Keith        NM 1984 15 Me 12  4  5  0
43 Buckley, Nathan     Br 1993  7 Ha 20  8  3  0
42 Kickett, Derek      Sy 1995 11 Ha 13 14  5  2
41 Cunningham, Geoff   St 1985 18 Ha 13 10  8  0
41 Bradley, Craig      Ca 1997 18 Ad 32  8  6  0
41 West, Scott         WB 2004 14 Fr 19 14  7  3
41 Moloney, Brent      Me 2010 11 Ca 11 16  7  1
40 Pike, Martin        Fi 1996 16 Co 26  5  5  0
40 Hall, Ray           Ri 2002 22 Sy 10  2  4  4
 
I was interested in trying to determine who has played the least career games to experience both a premiership and a wooden spoon. It is proving tricky to decide what constitutes "having played for a side which won the wooden spoon." How many games would a player have to play in during one season for it to be stated that he played in a team which won the wooden spoon? What does it mean if a player plays in less than half the home and away games in a season, and the team finishes last? He has not played in the majority of games for the season, so to what extent has he "contributed" to his team's performance?

I suppose however the same could be said for players who play in premierships. There would be plenty who have not played in the majority of home and away games and yet have ended up in a Grand Final and with a premiership medal around their neck.

So if somebody wants to have a go at determining the player/s with the least career games to have experienced a premiership and a wooden spoon, best of luck to you.

In the meantime, I have decided to make a list of the most career games with a premiership and a wooden spoon, which looks like this:


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Wooden . Games played
Player . . . . .Games Premierships Spoons . in Spoon years
Craig Bradley . . 375 . . 2 . . . . . 1 . . 19/22
John Rantall . . .336 . . 1 . . . . . 1 . . 22/22
Jason Akermanis . 325 . . 3 . . . . . 1 . . 17/22
Ted Whitten . . . 321 . . 1 . . . . . 2 . . 16/18, 17/18
Dick Reynolds . . 320 . . 4 . . . . . 1 . . 15/18
Marcus Ashcroft . 318 . . 3 . . . . . 1 . . 22/22
Roger Merrett . . 313 . . 2 . . . . . 2 . . 17/22, 22/22
Alastair Lynch . .306 . . 3 . . . . . 1 . . 15/22
Paul Williams . . 306 . . 1 . . . . . 1 . . 17/22
Russell Greene . .304 . . 3 . . . . . 2 . . 22/22, 19/22
Barry Breen . . . 300 . . 1 . . . . . 2 . . 20/22, 21/22


Rantall also lined up for Fitzroy in 1980, playing only 6 games early in the season, then retiring. Thus I did not feel he had played in a wooden spoon side for that season.
 
Technically, a player named Ern Hazel experienced both within 18 VFL games. He played his first two games in St.Kilda's spoon-winning 1909 side, then one further game for the Saints before crossing to Melbourne for the remainder of 1910. The following year he switched again to Essendon, playing in the winning GF team of 1911. He played only one more AFL match.

Taking into account the requirement to play at least 50% of games in a spoon-winning team, the least games played for both a spoon and a flag are:

Code: 
Ma Player              Career  Club(s) PW Year Cb Ma PW Year Cb Ma
------------------------------------------------------------------
25 Anderson, Jack Y. 1932-1939 Ri,NM    P 1932 Ri  4  W 1935 NM 25
28 Hardy, Charlie    1921-1925 Es       W 1921 Es  8  P 1923 Es 28
35 McDonough, Jack   1902-1905 Sy,Fi    W 1903 Sy 21  P 1904 Fi 35
37 Batchelor, Keith  1952-1957 Co,NM    P 1953 Co 10  W 1956 NM 37
38 Jenkins, Tommy    1921-1927 Es,NM    W 1921 Es 12  P 1923 Es 38
41 Abernethy, Jim    1923-1932 Me       W 1923 Me 15  P 1926 Me 41
43 Clayton, Shane    1996-2004 Fi,Br,NM W 1996 Fi 13  P 1999 NM 43
44 Perry, John       1964-1974 Ri,NM    P 1967 Ri 21  W 1970 NM 44
45 Maher, Frank      1921-1928 Es       W 1921 Es 12  P 1923 Es 45
46 Warne-Smith, Ivor 1919-1932 Me       W 1919 Me  8  P 1926 Me 46
49 Young, Michael    1977-1982 Ca,Me    P 1979 Ca 22  W 1981 Me 49
50 Beckton, Norm     1921-1930 Es       W 1921 Es 14  P 1923 Es 50
 
Ron The Bear said:
Code: 
LM Player              Cb Year Rd Op  K  H  M  G
------------------------------------------------
65 Williams, Greg      Ge 1985  3 WB 17 22  6  0
60 McGregor, Anthony   Fi 1994 22 Ri 12  8  4  0
59 Bain, David         Br 1990  8 WC 16  3  7  1
57 Ablett junior, Gary GC 2011  8 Ad 18 23  0  4
55 Millane, Darren     Co 1987 20 Me 19 11  9  0
54 Dwyer, Mick         St 1989  5 Es 11  5  6  2
53 Judd, Chris         Ca 2010  6 Co 15 22  5  0
52 Buckley, Nathan     Co 1998 14 Br 22  9  4  4
51 Goodes, Adam        Sy 2009  7 Ge 14 13  4  2
50 Tzatzaris, Zeno     WB 1989 19 Ge 12  2  7  0
50 King, Clinton       Co 1999  4 Ri 12 12  3  1
50 Ablett junior, Gary GC 2011 15 Fr 20 14  4  3
48 Hughes, Danny R.    Me 1987 14 Fi 15  1  7  0
47 Lockett, Tony       St 1987  4 Me 18  2 14 12
47 Carey, Wayne        NM 1992 20 WB 23  5 17  4
46 Kelly, Paul         Sy 1992 19 WB 14 11  3  2
46 Daniher, Chris      Es 1992 24 Ge 21  7  6  0
45 Shaw, Tony          Co 1985 21 WB 30 15  6  0
45 Hanna, Mil          Ca 1991  4 Me 13  8  4  8
45 Holland, Nick       Ha 1995 21 NM 17  8  9  0
44 Knights, Matthew    Ri 1993  3 WC 21  7  4  2
44 McAdam, Gilbert     Br 1995 12 NM 18 12  8  0
43 Mossop, John        Ge 1984  8 Es 12 11 13  1
43 Greig, Keith        NM 1984 15 Me 12  4  5  0
43 Buckley, Nathan     Br 1993  7 Ha 20  8  3  0
42 Kickett, Derek      Sy 1995 11 Ha 13 14  5  2
41 Cunningham, Geoff   St 1985 18 Ha 13 10  8  0
41 Bradley, Craig      Ca 1997 18 Ad 32  8  6  0
41 West, Scott         WB 2004 14 Fr 19 14  7  3
41 Moloney, Brent      Me 2010 11 Ca 11 16  7  1
40 Pike, Martin        Fi 1996 16 Co 26  5  5  0
40 Hall, Ray           Ri 2002 22 Sy 10  2  4  4
Click to expand...

thanks ron, thats great.

a lot of those in the late 80's early 90's. an umpiring trend perhaps? or was that your field of stats?
 
St Oxley said:
thanks ron, thats great.

a lot of those in the late 80's early 90's. an umpiring trend perhaps? or was that your field of stats?
Click to expand...

Game-by-game Brownlow votes have only been recorded since 1984. Previously there was no way of knowing which matches the votes were awarded for.
 
Catsace said:
David Ugrinic, drafted with pick 13 in 1993's draft remained on Geelong's list up to 1998 from memory, and i think played at the most one pre-season Cup game. Had chronic ankle/knee injuries from memory. Not sure if he played any footy at a local level afterwards.
Click to expand...

Can't beat that, but Ivan Bartul was on Melbourne's list from '93 to '96 without playing a game. I always thought he never came over from WA at all but he does appear in the 1994 team photo (and his spectacular pose doesn't seem to be a mid 90's Photoshop job http://demonwiki.org/Ivan+Bartul) so who knows what he was up to.
 

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ok, thats why those years are stacked.

but even so, between the years 03 - 08 it only happened 2 times yet between the years 87 - 92 it occurred 11 times.

and maybe the trend is going in circles again as in 10/11 it has happened 4 times.
 
St Oxley said:
and maybe the trend is going in circles again as in 10/11 it has happened 4 times.
Click to expand...

Yep, fair point. It must've happened a bit in the past for players like Bunton and Reynolds to win multiple medals in seasons of 3 or 4 wins.

I don't have an issue with it if the umpires are being truly objective and not merely looking out for their favourite players.
 
Anyone have a link or can easily produce a table on FTA/PAY schedules for each club for the last three years, eg.
Code: 
Team        2011    2010    2009
          FTA/PAY FTA/PAY FTA/PAY
---------------------------------
Adelaide    x/x      x/x    x/x
Brisbane    x/x      x/x    x/x
Carlton     x/x      x/x    x/x
...         ...      ...    ...
 

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I'm having fun with power ratings/rankings. Using stats from the AFL site. Just a question for everyone: What stats are more important to include or mean more?

Currently my list is
Code: 
Contested Possessions
Contested Marks
Disposal Efficiency
Tackles
Clangers
One Percenters

There are plenty more I can include, what would you include?

*NOTE* This is just a basic starting point for enjoyment. I plan on building on it in the future adding weight to previous records against teams as Collingwood were undoubtedly the best team in the H&A season looking at the ladder but they couldn't beat Geelong so that should affect them when comparing the two
 
Buckets007 said:
I'm having fun with power ratings/rankings. Using stats from the AFL site. Just a question for everyone: What stats are more important to include or mean more?

Currently my list is
Code: 
Contested Possessions
Contested Marks
Disposal Efficiency
Tackles
Clangers
One Percenters

There are plenty more I can include, what would you include?

*NOTE* This is just a basic starting point for enjoyment. I plan on building on it in the future adding weight to previous records against teams as Collingwood were undoubtedly the best team in the H&A season looking at the ladder but they couldn't beat Geelong so that should affect them when comparing the two
Click to expand...
Ctd possies and ctd marks are imo most important like you have, then tackles and then DE. But clangers and 1%ers are still very important.
 
Buckets007 said:
I'm having fun with power ratings/rankings. Using stats from the AFL site. Just a question for everyone: What stats are more important to include or mean more?

Currently my list is
Code: 
Contested Possessions
Contested Marks
Disposal Efficiency
Tackles
Clangers
One Percenters

There are plenty more I can include, what would you include?

*NOTE* This is just a basic starting point for enjoyment. I plan on building on it in the future adding weight to previous records against teams as Collingwood were undoubtedly the best team in the H&A season looking at the ladder but they couldn't beat Geelong so that should affect them when comparing the two
Click to expand...
Maybe have a look at the Champion Date ranking points.
 

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