Stats questions

[Ron The Bear]

Also the average age of the current coaches would have to be the lowest for a while? Can't find Brendan McCartney's DOB anywhere but the rest of them average just on 40.

I don't have it with me either. Perhaps it's in the AFL Record Season Guide? Appreciate it if someone can post it.

Assuming for the moment a DOB of 1/1/1961, the average of all coaches' ages on the first day of the season will be 42.16, which is the lowest since 1991 (41.22).

Ad Cornes, Graham       42.97
Br Walls, Robert        40.66
Ca Parkin, David        48.52
Co Matthews, Leigh      39.05
Es Sheedy, Kevin        43.24
Fi Shaw, Robert         36.20
Ge Blight, Malcolm      41.09
Ha Joyce, Alan          48.41
Me Northey, John        47.72
NM Schimmelbusch, Wayne 38.16
Ri Bartlett, Kevin      44.04
St Sheldon, Ken         31.22
Sy Kinnear, Col         43.47
WC Malthouse, Mick      37.59
WB Wheeler, Terry       36.02

 

[35Daicos]

I don't have it with me either. Perhaps it's in the AFL Record Season Guide? Appreciate it if someone can post it.

The AFL Record Season Guide 2012 has 23/20/1960!

 

[Ron The Bear]

The AFL Record Season Guide 2012 has 23/20/1960!

Hmmm. Suspect it should be 23/12 since it was widely reported he was 50 when appointed.

 

[35Daicos]

Hmmm. Suspect it should be 23/12 since it was widely reported he was 50 when appointed.

I've had no luck in tracking down anything a bit more definitive, but an article in The Age (10th Dec.) has him at 51, so I'll guess it should be 23/10! The same article says he's 2 1/2 years younger than Rodney Eade (04/04/1958 according to last year's AFL Guide) so 23/10/1960 sounds about right. I'm sure a more definite DOB will be found soon enough!

 

[35Daicos]

2012 SEASON GUIDE UPDATES AND CORRECTIONS

https://www.afl.com.au/season guide changes/tabid/18789/default.aspx

Included here is:-

Page 339: Under Brendan McCartney’s profile, his date of birth should read 23/10/1960.

 

[Ron The Bear]

2012 SEASON GUIDE UPDATES AND CORRECTIONS

https://www.afl.com.au/season guide changes/tabid/18789/default.aspx

Included here is:-

Page 339: Under Brendan McCartney’s profile, his date of birth should read 23/10/1960.

Good find, thanks Daics.

 

[RogersResults]

Round 7 1941 V.F.A matches. (6 matches)

Pratt (Coburg) 7 goals
Lynch (Preston) 9 goals
Nash (Camberwell) 9 goals
Lyons (Prahran) 11 goals
Freyer (P. Melb) 14 goals
Vallence (W'town) 20 goals

70 goals from 6 players in the same round.
(Not necessarily the most in the Association's history, I just happened
to notice the "Orgy of Goals" headline while looking for something else.)

What are the highest League totals from 6 players in one round?

 

[emuboy]

Collingwood took everything before it in 2011, but could not defeat one team - Geelong, to whom the lost twice. This may not have been such a problem, but unfortunately, Collingwood met the Cats in the Grand Final and again lost, leaving the Magpies with just 3 losses for the season, all against the Cats and with no premiership.

Does anyone know of any other cases of this extraordinary happening, either in the AFL/VFL or the state leagues? While Collingwood paid the price for developing a bogey side in Geelong, are there other teams that had just 2 losses for the season (and may well have been premiers), both against a team that was a non-finalist or a team that finished lower in the finals?

At the other end of the scale, which lowly teams could manage to beat only one opponent in two or more games during the season? Ones I am aware of are Melbourne in 1914 (2 wins against winless University); South Melbourne in 1964 (2 victories against winless Fitzroy) and South Melbourne again in 1975, which finished last with 2 wins, both over Geelong.

 

[Catsace]

In response to Emuboy's post....in the AFL Collingwood's feat is unique in VFL/AFL history for losing to a single side more than once in a season including the GF.

I do know..in relation to the Dogs 2003, despite all Dog fans hardly being keen on Rhode as a coach, in Rd 16 that season the Dogs won their second game for the year against Geelong, with their only other two premiership points to that stage of the season being a draw against the Eagles (when Sampi missed on the siren). Think they scored one more win before year's end though against Freo.

Hard to believe that the Pies have lost to only Hawthorn and Geelong since the draw against the Dees in Rd 11 2010.

 

[RogersResults]

Collingwood took everything before it in 2011, but could not defeat one team - Geelong, to whom the lost twice. This may not have been such a problem, but unfortunately, Collingwood met the Cats in the Grand Final and again lost, leaving the Magpies with just 3 losses for the season, all against the Cats and with no premiership.

Does anyone know of any other cases of this extraordinary happening, either in the AFL/VFL or the state leagues? While Collingwood paid the price for developing a bogey side in Geelong, are there other teams that had just 2 losses for the season (and may well have been premiers), both against a team that was a non-finalist or a team that finished lower in the finals?

At the other end of the scale, which lowly teams could manage to beat only one opponent in two or more games during the season? Ones I am aware of are Melbourne in 1914 (2 wins against winless University); South Melbourne in 1964 (2 victories against winless Fitzroy) and South Melbourne again in 1975, which finished last with 2 wins, both over Geelong.

Collingwood 2011 are the only runner-up to have only lost to the Premiers.
(More facts about the 2011 GF - including that one)

I think Nth Melbourne in the VFA shortly before transferring to the League only lost the Grand Final one year.

Hang on a bit and I'll answer the 2nd part of the question.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Does anyone know of any other cases of this extraordinary happening, either in the AFL/VFL or the state leagues? While Collingwood paid the price for developing a bogey side in Geelong, are there other teams that had just 2 losses for the season (and may well have been premiers), both against a team that was a non-finalist or a team that finished lower in the finals?

As Catsace says, Collingwood's performance is unique. The other five teams which lost to one opponent for the year - Carlton 1908 v Essendon (2nd), South Melbourne 1918 v St.Kilda (4th), Collingwood 1929 v Richmond (2nd), Essendon 1950 v North Melbourne (2nd) and Essendon 2000 v Western Bulldogs (8th) - all won the flag and lost only once for the season.

At the other end of the scale, which lowly teams could manage to beat only one opponent in two or more games during the season? Ones I am aware of are Melbourne in 1914 (2 wins against winless University); South Melbourne in 1964 (2 victories against winless Fitzroy) and South Melbourne again in 1975, which finished last with 2 wins, both over Geelong.

The only other one was Carlton v St.Kilda in 1897.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What are the highest League totals from 6 players in one round?

59 1993 R6
Ablett (Ge) 14, Salmon (Es) 10, McAdam (NM) 10, Dunstall (Ha) 9, Longmire (NM) 9, Modra (Ad) 7

56 1992 R7
Dunstall (Ha) 17, Lockett (St) 10, Ablett (Ge) 9, Hutton (Br) 8, Wheildon (Fi) Brown (Ge) Kolyniuk (WB) 6

56 1996 R19
Dunstall (Ha) 14, Lockett (Sy) 12, Modra (Ad) 8, Neitz (Me) 8, Ablett (Ge) 7, Lloyd (Es) 7

55 1933 R11
Coventry (Co) 15, Johnson (Me) 12, Pratt (Sy) 10, Chandler (Ha) 7, Fitzmaurice (NM) 6, O'Brien (WB) Mohr (St) 5

54 1993 R16
Modra (Ad) 13, Silvagni (Ca) 10, Rocca (Co) 10, Longmire (NM) 8, Dunstall (Ha) 7, Lynch (Fi) O'Brien (St) 6

52 1931 R17
Margitich (Me) 12, Mohr (St) 11, Coventry (Co) 11, Freyer (Es) 7, Lewis (NM) 6, Hearn (Fi) D.Strang (Ri) 5

51 1931 R2
D.Strang (Ri) 14, Moloney (Ge) 12, Titus (Ri) 8, Morrison (WB) 7, Robertson (Sy) Allen (Ca) Arthur (Ca) Johnson (Me) 5

50 1934 R14
Coventry (Co) 14, Pratt (Sy) 11, Metherell (Ge) 8, Nash (Sy) 7, Freyer (Es) Harris (Ri) Pye (Fi) Whelan (Co) 5

50 1969 R19
McKenna (Co) 16, Barrot (Ri) 8, Wade (Ge) 8, Dillon (Me) 6, Hudson (Ha) 6, Crosswell (Ca) 6

 

[RogersResults]

59 1993 R6
Ablett (Ge) 14, Salmon (Es) 10, McAdam (NM) 10, Dunstall (Ha) 9, Longmire (NM) 9, Modra (Ad) 7

56 1992 R7
Dunstall (Ha) 17, Lockett (St) 10, Ablett (Ge) 9, Hutton (Br) 8, Wheildon (Fi) Brown (Ge) Kolyniuk (WB) 6

56 1996 R19
Dunstall (Ha) 14, Lockett (Sy) 12, Modra (Ad) 8, Neitz (Me) 8, Ablett (Ge) 7, Lloyd (Es) 7

55 1933 R11
Coventry (Co) 15, Johnson (Me) 12, Pratt (Sy) 10, Chandler (Ha) 7, Fitzmaurice (NM) 6, O'Brien (WB) Mohr (St) 5

54 1993 R16
Modra (Ad) 13, Silvagni (Ca) 10, Rocca (Co) 10, Longmire (NM) 8, Dunstall (Ha) 7, Lynch (Fi) O'Brien (St) 6

52 1931 R17
Margitich (Me) 12, Mohr (St) 11, Coventry (Co) 11, Freyer (Es) 7, Lewis (NM) 6, Hearn (Fi) D.Strang (Ri) 5

51 1931 R2
D.Strang (Ri) 14, Moloney (Ge) 12, Titus (Ri) 8, Morrison (WB) 7, Robertson (Sy) Allen (Ca) Arthur (Ca) Johnson (Me) 5

50 1934 R14
Coventry (Co) 14, Pratt (Sy) 11, Metherell (Ge) 8, Nash (Sy) 7, Freyer (Es) Harris (Ri) Pye (Fi) Whelan (Co) 5

50 1969 R19
McKenna (Co) 16, Barrot (Ri) 8, Wade (Ge) 8, Dillon (Me) 6, Hudson (Ha) 6, Crosswell (Ca) 6

Thanks for that. Interesting that with the exception of R19 1969, they are all within 4 years of each in either the 90s or 30s. Probably says something about the calibre of forwards playing at the same time in those years or the calibre and tactics of the defenders.

 

[emuboy]

Thanks Catsace, Rogers Results & Ron The Bear.

Trust Collingwood to find a unique way to lose a Grand Final.

 

[lamaros]

What is the biggest gap, in both years and games, between a players first premiership and their last?

 

[Ron The Bear]

What is the biggest gap, in both years and games, between a players first premiership and their last?

Greatest chronological differences:

Days Player                 Clubs   Career   FYr Cb  LYr Cb
-----------------------------------------------------------
5481 Tuck, Michael          Ha    1972-1991 1976 Ha 1991 Ha
4753*Baring, Fred           Es    1910-1924 1911 Es 1924 Es
4753 Bartlett, Kevin        Ri    1965-1983 1967 Ri 1980 Ri
4753 Bourke, Francis W.     Ri    1967-1981 1967 Ri 1980 Ri
4746 Davis, Barry           Es,NM 1961-1975 1962 Es 1975 NM
4382 Matthews, Leigh        Ha    1969-1985 1971 Ha 1983 Ha
4382 Wood, Bryan            Ri,Es 1972-1986 1973 Ri 1985 Es
4382 Banfield, Drew         WC    1993-2006 1994 WC 2006 WC
4375 Wade, Doug             Ge,NM 1961-1975 1963 Ge 1975 NM
4039 Griffith, Billy C.     Es    1899-1913 1901 Es 1912 Es
4018 Jesaulenko, Alex       Ca,St 1967-1981 1968 Ca 1979 Ca
4018 Jones, Peter           Ca    1966-1979 1968 Ca 1979 Ca
4018 McKay, David           Ca    1969-1981 1970 Ca 1981 Ca
4018 DiPierdomenico, Robert Ha    1975-1991 1978 Ha 1989 Ha
4018 Wanganeen, Gavin       Es,PA 1991-2006 1993 Es 2004 PA
4011 Ball, Jason            WC,Sy 1992-2005 1994 WC 2005 Sy

* Baring played 5 games in 1924 when there was no GF. Days are calculated using his final 1924 match as the endpoint. If the 1923 GF is used instead, the figure is 4410 days.


Greatest games differences:

Gms Player                 Clubs   Career   FYr Cb  LYr Cb
----------------------------------------------------------
338 Tuck, Michael          Ha    1972-1991 1976 Ha 1991 Ha
291 Bartlett, Kevin        Ri    1965-1983 1967 Ri 1980 Ri
273 Bourke, Francis W.     Ri    1967-1981 1967 Ri 1980 Ri
255 Davis, Barry           Es,NM 1961-1975 1962 Es 1975 NM
243 Matthews, Leigh        Ha    1969-1985 1971 Ha 1983 Ha
234 Banfield, Drew         WC    1993-2006 1994 WC 2006 WC
232 McKay, David           Ca    1969-1981 1970 Ca 1981 Ca
229 Doull, Bruce           Ca    1969-1986 1972 Ca 1982 Ca
222 Jones, Peter           Ca    1966-1979 1968 Ca 1979 Ca
221 Jesaulenko, Alex       Ca,St 1967-1981 1968 Ca 1979 Ca
218 Wade, Doug             Ge,NM 1961-1975 1963 Ge 1975 NM
215 Wanganeen, Gavin       Es,PA 1991-2006 1993 Es 2004 PA
204 Eade, Rodney           Ha,Br 1976-1990 1976 Ha 1986 Ha
204 DiPierdomenico, Robert Ha    1975-1991 1978 Ha 1989 Ha
202 Wood, Bryan            Ri,Es 1972-1986 1973 Ri 1985 Es

If Essendon wins the 2012 flag, Fletcher will be on 6944 days and a maximum of 356 games (with four finals), if that's what you're angling at.

 

[lamaros]

Aye, that's what I was wondering.

He might play on next year too, who knows.

 

[Catsace]

Here's a funny question i just thought of. Not sure when 'Unfurling the flag' came into vogue...whether a pennant was awarded to all Premier sides throughout history, but i am wondering what would be the winning percentage of the Premiers in the games where they have 'Unfurled the Flag'?

I know in the NBA Miami celebrated their 'presentation of the Championship rings' with a massive thumping defeat when they commenced their 2006-07 season at home in game 1.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Here's a funny question i just thought of. Not sure when 'Unfurling the flag' came into vogue...whether a pennant was awarded to all Premier sides throughout history, but i am wondering what would be the winning percentage of the Premiers in the games where they have 'Unfurled the Flag'?

I know in the NBA Miami celebrated their 'presentation of the Championship rings' with a massive thumping defeat when they commenced their 2006-07 season at home in game 1.

Someone would have to go through all the newspaper reports and determine which games those were. I'm not sure when the tradition began, either.

If we take the unfurling matches to be the reigning premier's first home match of the season, the results are 114-81-29-4, for a strike rate of 73%.

From 1898:

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LWWWLWLLWL
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[RogersResults]

Here's a funny question i just thought of. Not sure when 'Unfurling the flag' came into vogue...whether a pennant was awarded to all Premier sides throughout history, but i am wondering what would be the winning percentage of the Premiers in the games where they have 'Unfurled the Flag'?

I know in the NBA Miami celebrated their 'presentation of the Championship rings' with a massive thumping defeat when they commenced their 2006-07 season at home in game 1.

Geelong's 1952 pennant was unfurled round 6 1953 at the Kardinia Park match v Sth Melbourne. According to Geelong president, Jack Jennings, the unfurling was delayed until South Melbourne visited Geelong because of the close association of the two clubs in wartime. (South was a strong supporter of Geelong's re-admission to the competition in 1944.)

The earliest report in The Argus of a pennant being unfurled is at North Melbourne in 1904. The first League pennant's unfurling mentioned is round 1 1926 at Geelong. Other accounts of pennant unfurling are scarce. "Flag unfurling" is never used in reference to sporting pennants.

Wikipedia states, "The ritual of hoisting of the premiership flag in Australian sporting culture dates back to 1895 and is an enduring symbol in Australian sporting culture" but fails to mention which occasion this was or give any attribution. It does however have a photo of the 1906 pennant being unfurled on 27 April 1907 at Carlton - round 1 of the season. (Carlton lost to St Kilda that day.)

There was definitely a pennant for the 1896 VFA premiership, because there are reports in the press over disputes of who was going to pay for it. The Association maintained that it wouldn't as Collingwood was no longer a member, having defected to another competition - the League.

 

[LadyPants]

I've got a question. What is the quickest amount of rounds that it has taken a player to reach 100 goals?

 

[RogersResults]

I've got a question. What is the quickest amount of rounds that it has taken a player to reach 100 goals?

Bob Pratt 13 matches for 104 goals in 1934.

Next fastest is in this: http://www.slatterymedia.com/store/viewBook/afl-record-season-guide-2012

 

[LadyPants]

Wow, thanks a lot.

 

[lamaros]

Was trying to work this out by hand, but figured some of the database crew here might be faster at it:

How many of each type of draft pick (ND, PS, R) have the various clubs used in the last ten drafts (2002 - 2011)?

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Just curious if there's some sort of table somewhere of how teams have fared against the eventual premiers each year. Not necessarily displayed by each year, just how well each team tends to go in that regard.

I think Essendon's been pretty bad at that recently, up until last year.