Stats questions

[emuboy]

Is this the first year that the two opposing Grand Final coaches have had the same first name (Chris Fagan vs. Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

50

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

)?

 

[worbod]

Is this the first year that the two opposing Grand Final coaches have had the same first name (Chris Fagan vs. Chris Scott)?

It happened in 2007 with Mark Thompson and Mark Williams.

In 1999, Denis Pagan and David Parkin shared the same initials.

In 1913, the surnames of the opposing coaches were Parratt and Sparrow.

 

[uranium_death]

1988-1989 must be the only time when the same team won consecutive premierships with a different coach.
To add to the fun, both had the same given name, albeit spelled differently.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

1988-1989 must be the only time when the same team won consecutive premierships with a different coach.
To add to the fun, both had the same given name, albeit spelled differently.

That's correct. All other premiership sides that won consecutive premierships had the same coach.

Carlton (1906-1908) = Jack Worrall
Essendon (1911-1912) = Jack Worrall
Carlton (1914-1915) = Norm Clark
Richmond (1920-1921) = Dan Minogue
Essendon (1923-1924) = Syd Barker
Collingwood (1927-1930) = Jock McHale
Collingwood (1935-1936) = Jock McHale
Melbourne (1939-1941) = Frank Hughes
Essendon (1949-1950) = Dick Reynolds
Geelong (1951-1952) = Reg Hickey
Melbourne (1955-1957) = Norm Smith
Melbourne (1959-1960) = Norm Smith
Richmond (1973-1974) = Tom Hafey
Carlton (1981-1982) = David Parkin
Essendon (1984-1985) = Kevin Sheedy
Hawthorn (1988-1989) = Alan Joyce, Allan Jeans
Adelaide (1997-1998) = Malcolm Blight
Brisbane Lions (2001-2003) = Leigh Matthews
Hawthorn (2013-2015) = Alastair Clarkson
Richmond (2019-2020) = Damien Hardwick
Brisbane Lions (2024-2025) = Chris Fagan

 

[Falconista]

1988-1989 must be the only time when the same team won consecutive premierships with a different coach.
To add to the fun, both had the same given name, albeit spelled differently.

Happened in the WAFL more recently.

Subiaco won the 2006 premiership with Peter German, then 07 & 08 with Scott Watters.

 

[JP2]

With Sam Grlj set to be drafted, I have to ask: has there ever been another VFL / AFL player without a vowel or 'y' in their surname?

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I don't have a 'scientific' way of coming up with an answer, but George Bisset at no. 157 appears to be the highest ranked "GB" player on this list!: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/alltime/careergoals.html
View attachment 2435154
View attachment 2435155
The order will be based on goals kicked (with behinds scored [where known] as a tie-breaker).
View attachment 2435189
2nd^. 3rd>:
View attachment 2435193

Re George Bisset- footscray rover , ican remember reading a while back finished 2nd or 3rd in a brownlow , but controversially got reported in the last game of the year or something, where he kicked 6 goals and didnt get a vote

 

[35Daicos]

Re George Bisset- footscray rover , ican remember reading a while back finished 2nd or 3rd in a brownlow , but controversially got reported in the last game of the year or something, where he kicked 6 goals and didnt get a vote

That would refer to 1969 (Rd. 14 game), I'd say: https://web.archive.org/web/2013041...on_idIndex=0&guiltyIndex=0&AFLstatisticMenu=1


He kicked 6.4 and had 31 disposals against Carlton: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/G/George_Bisset.html

He came equal 2nd in the Brownlow in 1969: https://afltables.com/afl/brownlow/brownlow1969.html


In fact, this has the story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bisset_(footballer)

Very unlucky!

 

[emuboy]

Kevin Murray, who played 333 games for Fitzroy from 1955-1974 holds the record for the longest career without playing in a winning finals game. However Murray's opportunity to play in finals were restricted to a four year span from 1958-1961 where the Lions made the finals twice and narrowly missed twice, and only 3 of Murray's 333 games were finals matches.

Does anyone know of any other players who while not having as long a career as Murray either in number of games or span of years played in more losing finals games without ever winning one?

 

[35Daicos]

Kevin Murray, who played 333 games for Fitzroy from 1955-1974 holds the record for the longest career without playing in a winning finals game. However Murray's opportunity to play in finals were restricted to a four year span from 1958-1961 where the Lions made the finals twice and narrowly missed twice, and only 3 of Murray's 333 games were finals matches.

Does anyone know of any other players who while not having as long a career as Murray either in number of games or span of years played in more losing finals games without ever winning one?

The AFL Season Guide has this:

Just the 2 finals for the Fitzroy great: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/K/Kevin_Murray.html

Both were played in 1960. He missed the Lions' finals game in 1958 through injury:

 

[ioppolo]

Saverio Rocca

Saverio Rocca

Age

52

Ht

195cm

Wt

112kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

5.2

5star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.6

5star

plays at Collingwood whilst they're trash and North are a powerhouse, then goes to North when their glory days end and Collingwood become good. Oof

 

[GrahamClayton]

North Melbourne won the 2025 AFLW Grand Final with an 81.8% kicking accuracy - 9.2 (56). Where does this performance sit amongst high accuracy scores in a Grand Final?

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

North Melbourne won the 2025 AFLW Grand Final with an 81.8% kicking accuracy - 9.2 (56). Where does this performance sit amongst high accuracy scores in a Grand Final?

AFLW Grand Finals

• North Melbourne (2025) = 9.2.56 (81.8%)
• Brisbane Lions (2023) = 7.2.44 (77.8%)
• Adelaide (2019) = 10.3.63 (76.9%)
• Brisbane Lions (2021) = 6.2.38 (75.0%)

VFL/AFL Grand Finals

• Carlton (1906) = 15.4.94 (78.9%)
• Carlton (1972) = 28.9.177 (75.7%)
• Hawthorn (2008) = 18.7.115 (72.0%)
• North Melbourne (1975) = 19.8.122 (70.4%)

Overall between AFL and AFLW Grand Finals, it's the most accurate score in Grand Final history.

 

[GrahamClayton]

AFLW Grand Finals

• North Melbourne (2025) = 9.2.56 (81.8%)
• Brisbane Lions (2023) = 7.2.44 (77.8%)
• Adelaide (2019) = 10.3.63 (76.9%)
• Brisbane Lions (2021) = 6.2.38 (75.0%)

VFL/AFL Grand Finals

• Carlton (1906) = 15.4.94 (78.9%)
• Carlton (1972) = 28.9.172 (75.7%)
• Hawthorn (2008) = 18.7.115 (72.0%)
• North Melbourne (1975) = 19.8.122 (70.4%)

Overall between AFL and AFLW Grand Finals, it's the most accurate score in Grand Final history.

PonsfordMagpie,
Thank you for that answer - has any Grand Final in WAFL/SANFL/VFA history had a higher accuracy?

 

[35Daicos]

PonsfordMagpie,
Thank you for that answer - has any Grand Final in WAFL/SANFL/VFA history had a higher accuracy?

I can't provide a definitive answer, since I don't have all those scores (WAFL/SANFL/VFA) sitting in a spreadsheet (hopefully PonsfordMagpie does!), but a quick look at the SANFL Grand Final results throws up this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SANFL_premiers

Port Adelaide's 17.3 (85%) in 1992 beats it.

This will beat the above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_West_Australian_Football_League_premiers

That's 92.3% for East Perth. Though the maths isn't good (on Wikipedia) - that should be 12.1 (73)!

Edit: https://wafl.com.au/match/league-west-perth-v-east-perth-grand-final-1960

Looks like this was East Perth's actual score, so that rules them out!!

Wikipedia seems to have the final score correct here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_WANFL_season

I've just fixed that East Perth final score on the Wikipedia page.

Again I've only had a quick look here, but didn't see anything that tops 85% scoring accuracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VFA/VFL_premiers

BTW, this should be 177, not 172: Carlton (1972) = 28.9.172 (75.7%)

 

[uranium_death]

North Melbourne in 1998 had horrible accuracy at 8.22. 26.66667%.
Hawthorn in 1976 were pretty ordinary as well. 13.22. 37%. They could have demolished North. by 10 goals.
Essendon lost the 1948 Grand Final (in effect) purely on bad kicking. 7.27 in the first stanza, against Melbourne's 10.9 for a draw. 20.5% accuracy! That's just murder.
Melbourne won the replay comfortably.

You (usually) only get one chance to win a match. People cite 'bad luck', but a game of 2 hours never comes down to 1 moment alone.

 

[GrahamClayton]

Which goal was the last in the VFL/AFL that wasn’t caught on camera? And which was the first goal caught on film?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Graeme O'Donnell and Ron Richards aside, which other VFL/AFL players can claim equal grandson and grandfather status of VFL/AFL/W players?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Further, how many VFL/AFL players have both grandfathers who player VFL/AFL games?

 

[uranium_death]

As for grandfathers having sons and grandsons...

The Hird family (James being most prominent)
The Kennedy family (John Snr, Jnr and Josh)
Bourke family (Francis being most notable)
Silvagni family
Cordner family (plus AFLW player)

Just a few off the top of the head.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

As for grandfathers having sons and grandsons...

The Hird family (James being most prominent)
The Kennedy family (John Snr, Jnr and Josh)
Bourke family (Francis being most notable)
Silvagni family
Cordner family (plus AFLW player)

Just a few off the top of the head.

I know about those. (Darcy's too.)

But the eldest of the lots I don't think had VFL/AFL grandfathers.

 

[sabso]

I know about those. (Darcy's too.)

But the eldest of the lots I don't think had VFL/AFL grandfathers.

According to this article, there is Stan Smith (SM 1951-54), grandson of Jim McShane (geelong 1897-1901), grandfather of Tom Murphy (haw/gc 2005-14). Apparently source is Col Hutchinson.

 

[Demon in Hell]

Jack, John and Scott Howell, 3 successive generations who all played in premierships with Carlton.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

According to this article, there is Stan Smith (SM 1951-54), grandson of Jim McShane (geelong 1897-1901), grandfather of Tom Murphy (haw/gc 2005-14). Apparently source is Col Hutchinson.

OH SHIT!

Forgot about Stan Smith.

I believe he's the grandfather of Tom Murphy, who played for the Hawks and SUNS.

There's our 3rd.

 

[Rourke]

With Sam Grlj set to be drafted, I have to ask: has there ever been another VFL / AFL player without a vowel or 'y' in their surname?

No, GRLJ is the first.
Other vowel oddities:

• Ben McGLYNN has the longest surname without AEIOU, Leigh RYSWYK (one game for Brisbane) the only player with two Ys but no AEIOU
• Hewago Paul OEA the only player with 100% vowels
• Facetiously, only Atu BOSENAVULAGI has all five main vowels in his surname. Allowing Y, OAKLEY-NICHOLLS, DOUBLEDAY, HRYSOULAKIS and LOVETT-MURRAY have 5 of 6
• Cyril SEELENMEYER (6 games for University) is the only player with 5+ of any letter, and those five Es are the only true vowels in his surname