Stenglein decides

[Stiffy_18]

I think Braun would be alright. He's pretty much at his peak at the moment. Only thing I don't like is his height (or lack of it) and the fact that he's two years older than Stenglein.

And thats the reason why I thin Braun will not be the player we get. We want someone of same age or younger for Stenglein. Not a midfielder that won't be far of fom retiring when our guns hang them up

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

For me it would have to Waters or a first rounder.
I keep hearing talk about Chambers and Humm but we dont need anymore second teir midfielders we have enough in Skippy, Bode, Shuback and Mattner.

 

[Stiffy_18]

The more I think about it and after reading all the opinion on this thread and others on the same topic I feel that the AFC and WCFC will have difficulty coming to a direct agreement. I sense it could be Freo or some sort of a three-way deal.

OR NOTHING!

Why don't we just trade Stinger, Perrie and our first pick for Pavlich. Problem sovled

 

[macca23]

The more I think about it and after reading all the opinion on this thread and others on the same topic I feel that the AFC and WCFC will have difficulty coming to a direct agreement. I sense it could be Freo or some sort of a three-way deal.

OR NOTHING!

The deal will be done IMO - but there's a good chance that it might be with Freo and not WCE. They have a relatively unaccountable mid-field, and Stenglein would add some real steel to it.

 

[theorangeapple]

Surely you don't believe that. C'mon, history will tell you that in situations like Stenglein's a fair trade is reached between both parties 99% of the time. What happened last year with Nick Stevens and Jade Rawlings happens once every blue moon

i do agree i was drawing a long bow, but in reality he is out of contract and wants to play for another footy team. although, the afl system makes it very hard for players just to choose side, you would have to say that the balance of power is pretty even.

but, reading this thread it has occured to me that most crows supporters heads are getting bigger and bigger concerning stenglien. now that he has stated publicly he wants to go, all of u have suddenly changed your opinions from him being a more than handy afl player into this afl superstar. this he isnt or never will be (in our midfield at least) and our club is conservative to say the least when it comes to trading- that is why i am certain the butler and waters will be at the eagles next year.

 

[macca23]

Why don't we just trade Stinger, Perrie and our first pick for Pavlich. Problem sovled

And don't think for one moment that Adelaide won't try to do just that Stiffy - even though it's a long shot.

I would think that Adelaide would limit their interest to Schammer (and pavlich) and Waters - they both meet the mid-field criteria that Craig has said we need.

 

[theorangeapple]

Personally, I think Freo would trade Schammer for Stenglein, as they are desperate for a mid-fielder with accountability.

The competition will possibly force WCE to part with Waters.
COLOR]

here is exibit 'A'. severe over-rating of a tagger who isnt in the top 3 in the league.

i know for a fact that freo would laugh long and hard if u offered stenglien for schammer, likewise us with waters. whats happened to u guys drafting some of your home grown talent.

 

[macca23]

i do agree i was drawing a long bow, but in reality he is out of contract and wants to play for another footy team. although, the afl system makes it very hard for players just to choose side, you would have to say that the balance of power is pretty even.

but, reading this thread it has occured to me that most crows supporters heads are getting bigger and bigger concerning stenglien. now that he has stated publicly he wants to go, all of u have suddenly changed your opinions from him being a more than handy afl player into this afl superstar. this he isnt or never will be (in our midfield at least) and our club is conservative to say the least when it comes to trading- that is why i am certain the butler and waters will be at the eagles next year.

Nope, not me. I've continually scoffed at the suggestions of a second round draft pick (WCE's will be 28 or worse) for a player that was taken originally at 29 and has developed into an excellent tagger and a good mid-fielder in his own right.

What is important for people to understand is that Adelaide HAVE to play hard ball on Stenglein after publicly stuffing up the Carey trade by paying a fortune for a broken down crock and then losing a lot of public support with their process when making the coaching appointment.

The AFC will be using this trade as a vehicle to re-establish credibility and they will demand full value for a player that is very valuable to the make-up of the Crows gradually depleting mid-field.

They won't give a hairy whether it's WCE or Freo, as all they're looking for is the best deal possible. Stenglein can't refuse to go to Freo because his motive is to get to WA with WCE as a preference but he can't then make that a one and only situation.

He won't go into the pre-season draft as he wants to return to Perth for private and personal issues.

The deal will be done, and Adelaide will get very full value.

 

[macca23]

here is exibit 'A'. severe over-rating of a tagger who isnt in the top 3 in the league.

i know for a fact that freo would laugh long and hard if u offered stenglien for schammer, likewise us with waters. whats happened to u guys drafting some of your home grown talent.

And here is exhibit A of a person with no fkg idea of the relative value of players.

You can over-inflate your players and denigrate Stenglein if it makes you feel better, but at the end of the day he will bring his true value, and it won't be for the crap that you have suggested.

 

[Stiffy_18]

i do agree i was drawing a long bow, but in reality he is out of contract and wants to play for another footy team. although, the afl system makes it very hard for players just to choose side, you would have to say that the balance of power is pretty even.

but, reading this thread it has occured to me that most crows supporters heads are getting bigger and bigger concerning stenglien. now that he has stated publicly he wants to go, all of u have suddenly changed your opinions from him being a more than handy afl player into this afl superstar. this he isnt or never will be (in our midfield at least) and our club is conservative to say the least when it comes to trading- that is why i am certain the butler and waters will be at the eagles next year.

Where have I remotely hinted that

And as I have said a number of times already that I think it will either be a deal for your 1st round pick or a 3 way deal that gets us a midfielder form another club that fits our needs. I have also stated a number of times that I very much doubt that Waters and or Butler will be part of the deal.

 

[Mead]

I said this before and was roundly panned because apparently there was no way Stenglein would be prepared to go to either WA club (heh, funny that..)
I'll say it again-

If Stenglein goes home, the value Adelaide get for him will depend on whether Josh Carr is also on the market.

If Josh Carr is available, Fremantle will shell out for him, and the result will be that Stenglein will end up probably going to West Coast for a reasonable 2nd round pick, around #20. If Josh Carr remains at Port, then Stenglein will go to Fremantle, probably for something closer to a first round pick or possibly some kind of deal involving Simmonds. Fremantle have higher picks than West Coast,are also far more prepared to trade aggressively, and are in far greater need of some extra midfield grunt.

So, here it is-

If Josh Carr is available, knocking Freo out of the market.
Chambers + 2nd rounder to Carlton, Collingwood, or another similarly placed victorian club.
Higher 2nd Rounder to Adelaide.
Stenglein to West Coast

If Josh Carr isn't available-
Simmonds to Adelaide
Stenglein to West Coast

The idea of any of Butler, Waters or Seaby being traded for Stenglein is laughable. Now I've said my piece and once trade week is finished I guess we'll see who was right and who was wrong.

 

[macca23]

So, here it is-

If Josh Carr is available, knocking Freo out of the market.
Chambers + 2nd rounder to Carlton, Collingwood, or another similarly placed victorian club.
Higher 2nd Rounder to Adelaide.
Stenglein to West Coast

If Josh Carr isn't available-
Simmonds to Adelaide
Stenglein to West Coast

The idea of any of Butler, Waters or Seaby being traded for Stenglein is laughable. Now I've said my piece and once trade week is finished I guess we'll see who was right and who was wrong.

If you were the recruiting manager of the WCE, you've left out the most likely result on the above scenarios: Stenglein remains a Crow

 

[Streaker]

If Josh Carr isn't available-
Simmonds to Adelaide
Stenglein to West Coast

If I could give a Fremantle player to Adelaide and get Stenglein at West Coast I would be more than extremely pleased.

 

[Nige_Bix]

whats happened to u guys drafting some of your home grown talent.

You mean like Waters and Butler from SA at the WCFC?

 

[Deegle]

Personally from an eagles perspective, i dont think we need stenglein, i admit he is a good player but why trade the next worsfold(waters) and the next chad fletcher (butler) for a player who hasnt exactly set the league on fire

 

[Crow-mosone]

here is exibit 'A'. severe over-rating of a tagger who isnt in the top 3 in the league.

i know for a fact that freo would laugh long and hard if u offered stenglien for schammer, likewise us with waters. whats happened to u guys drafting some of your home grown talent.

you use the word 'Fact' far too liberally.

JR has already said he beleives Stinger has been tapped up by one or both clubs, and that is almost certainly true. He cannot get home without a trade - he just can't. He can either go to one of the 2 clubs, stay with us, or go to victoria.

If we don't get a satisfactory deal, he cannot go home. unlike ET, he stays here. Unless he's prepared to go to victoria, and I'd somehow doubt that.

If we do not make the trade we will still have him, but he will not be happy agreed?

Now consider Beau Waters. he is under contract, reputedly happy in WA, all is sunshine and roses. WC do not have to trade him, and probably won't. why force him out if he doesn't want to go. makes no sense. he stays.
agreed?

however, what happens IF JR & Co. get's in his ear, offers him big bucks, etc. and he decides he wants to come home. as a result of being tapped up, he goes into see the club and demands a trade to AFC.
WC do not have to trade him, he is under contract, they can keep him, but he will not be happy.

what is the difference? I don't think as much as you suggest. You could keep him, and try to convince him next year to stay, but that depends on how adamant he is.

my point, there are f-all facts surrounding this situation, things can change very quickly.

Myself I do not think Perrie + Stinga gets us Waters. However should the wind change, it probably does get us a waters who has demanded a trade.

This no doubt is what the AFC is thinking about regarding guys like waters & rivers.

 

[Deegle]

you use the word 'Fact' far too liberally.

JR has already said he beleives Stinger has been tapped up by one or both clubs, and that is almost certainly true. He cannot get home without a trade - he just can't. He can either go to one of the 2 clubs, stay with us, or go to victoria.

If we don't get a satisfactory deal, he cannot go home. unlike ET, he stays here. Unless he's prepared to go to victoria, and I'd somehow doubt that.

If we do not make the trade we will still have him, but he will not be happy agreed?

Now consider Beau Waters. he is under contract, reputedly happy in WA, all is sunshine and roses. WC do not have to trade him, and probably won't. why force him out if he doesn't want to go. makes no sense. he stays.
agreed?

however, what happens IF JR & Co. get's in his ear, offers him big bucks, etc. and he decides he wants to come home. as a result of being tapped up, he goes into see the club and demands a trade to AFC.
WC do not have to trade him, he is under contract, they can keep him, but he will not be happy.

what is the difference? I don't think as much as you suggest. You could keep him, and try to convince him next year to stay, but that depends on how adamant he is.

my point, there are f-all facts surrounding this situation, things can change very quickly.

Myself I do not think Perrie + Stinga gets us Waters. However should the wind change, it probably does get us a waters who has demanded a trade.

This no doubt is what the AFC is thinking about regarding guys like waters & rivers.

So the crows are pretty much blackmailing an 18year old kid, geez you must be real proud of your club! Such gentleman in Adelaide!

 

[Nige_Bix]

Personally from an eagles perspective, i dont think we need stenglein, i admit he is a good player but why trade the next worsfold(waters) and the next chad fletcher (butler) for a player who hasnt exactly set the league on fire

To be honest it puts your club into a bit of a bind - the number of choices is 2 - as it is here - in Melbourne its far greater and more optins are available. They may feel compelled to do a deal for his sake although in this business there is not much option for sentiment and compassion.

His only [apparent] reason is that he is homesick -there are no negative issues here - on the surface at least. I am sure Eagles fans would not want to give up the earth for him. But he in an underrated player.

 

[jc67]

So the crows are pretty much blackmailing an 18year old kid, geez you must be real proud of your club! Such gentleman in Adelaide!

It's about time my club took this sort of aproach!!!
I'm sick and tired of being nice guys with trading and finishing where nice guys do!

 

[Crow-mosone]

So the crows are pretty much blackmailing an 18year old kid, geez you must be real proud of your club! Such gentleman in Adelaide!

what? have you stopped to consider for a second what you just said or to consider what you just read????

What part of calling beau or his agent on the side:
" hey beau, we really like you, you'd fit in real well down here. your mum, your family, wouldn't it be great if they could see you play every week. We think we have an opportunity to bring you home, what are your thoughts on that. Certainly we could see you breaking into our central midfield rotation a little earlier than you might at WC, help your development etc. We'd be prepared to pay you $350k a year, that's a lot more than you're getting now but you're worth it. I am not sure this opportunity will come up every year, so think about it, maybe the timings right this year."

or something along those lines. Now, stop and ask yourself what part of that do you think is Blackmail, and do you know what Blackmail means?

It's called business, and it's called recruiting.

 

[jc67]

But he in an underrated player.

Not by people who actully watch and understand the game
Thats why we will get something worthwhile for him.

 

[Stiffy_18]

For those of you thinking that you will get Stinger for a 2nd rounder, think again.

Crows want fair deal for Stenglein
2:01:57 PM Thu 2 September, 2004
Alan Shiell
Sportal
Adelaide wants a player of 'equal value' in exchange for Tyson Stenglein, according to John Reid, the club's general manager of football operations.

"The club very clearly states that it will not accept anything other than another Tyson Stenglein or the equivalent," Reid said on Thursday after Stenglein had announced he was returning home to Perth for 'family reasons'.


Stenglein is expected to join West Coast, the club he supported as a junior, rather than Fremantle, but Reid said: "At this stage, there are two teams interested in him and his management will go down that path, I would assume, and then obviously we'll become involved."

Asked if he was aware of a suggestion that a deal had been done (for Stenglein) with West Coast two weeks ago, Reid said: "Well, if it has, Tyson certainly hasn't indicated that to us.

"I'd have no doubts there would need to have been some discussions. How far they went, I'm not certain. But I have no doubt even as recently as the middle of last week that Tyson was still really making his mind up.

"There may well have been discussions and he may have had some options to look at, but making that final decision, I know, hasn't been easy for him.

"In fairness, it's not a flippant thing from his point of view. It hasn't been an easy decision. But I'd be amazed if there weren't some discussions with either of the (Western Australian) clubs."

Reid said Adelaide considered Stenglein's value to be 'very, very high'.

"So whatever comes in return is going to have to be very, very high," he said.

"We're talking about someone who finishes in the top three or four of our club-champion award over three or four years, someone who's played 100 games, someone who's got leadership qualities, someone who is now recognised as a good a midfield/run-with/tag player - and in his own right a good midfield player - so everyone will have different values on that.

"We won't discuss that publicly but all I will say is, you equate that in player terms and it's pretty high. Our first priority will be, quite clearly, to get a player of equal value.

"We've put a lot of time, a lot of money and a lot of effort into Tyson Stenglein. He's going home at 24 years of age a very accomplished midfielder.

"This is a national competition and people who go into that industry need to accept that, so we'd want good compensation."

Reid said Adelaide had made its 'best efforts' to retain Stenglein but it had not been 'a monetary matter'.

"We've had a fair crack there but that's not the issue from his perspective," he said. "In fact, it may well be that he'll get less when he goes back to Western Australia than what we've offered.

"It's a family thing and a personal thing for Tyson, so they're sometimes very hard to debate or put forward an argument to counteract.

"I've known since the middle of the year that Tyson had some situations, family-wise, that needed attending to. We've made all efforts to try to assist in that area but they are personal matters and not for me to discuss.

"So I knew from about mid-year there was going to be an issue. We've tried very hard to resolve that but personal issues are personal issues."

West Coast has two 18-year-old South Australians on its list - Beau Waters, the Eagles' first pick (No. 11 overall) in last year's draft, and Sam Butler, their second pick (No. 20 overall).

Waters, from West Adelaide, has played 10 AFL matches this season, and Butler, from Central District, has played 11.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Can someone please post some of the good tagging jobs Stenglein did in 2004?

I'm not having a go, I only saw about half a dozen Crows games this season.

Some of you Crows fans are quick on the aggression aren't you?

It must suck to lose a player your club wants to keep (personally, I only knew the feeling briefly when Peter Matera seemed a lock for the Dees back in 1997), but everyone needs to take a deep breath and switch off the bias for a second (Eagles fans too could probably do that).

Waters, Butler, Seaby? I doubt that, the club would probably just rather keep them.

2nd round pick? Might be a bit low for the Crows, but Mead's suggestion of trading with another club to bring that pick up to the high teens/ low 20s might be a chance.

First round pick, maybe, depends how highly the Eagles rate him really.

From Freo, I think Troy Simmonds could be a chance (fit the bill for you guys?), and Troy Longmuir is likely to be looking for a new home in trade week. You won't get Schammer, he's re-signed and is very, very highly rated by Freo.

Should be interesting, Freo are usually willing to pay more than the more conservative Eagles, so you might want to talk to some of their fans too for some ideas.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Honestly,
I think we have plenty of bargaining power, as JR said two clubs want him. he has a preference, perhaps a strong preference. But if push comes to shove, and AFC & WC can't agree he has limited choices: go to melbourne via PS Draft, or move to Freo. At that point he goes to freo imo.

If 2 clubs with an antagonistic relationship like Freo & WC are after the player, a fair deal will be offered by one of them.

After the Nick Stevens incident I would expect his manager to be looking for some sort of assurance that WC were prepared to trade seriously for him.

WC & Freo for that matter usually get things done, and this will get done as well.

That summarises the situation perfectly, and I somehow think we will play hardball on this one - can't afford not to.

 

[Pheret]

Hi guys. Another Eagle here. I often dip in here as it is quite a lively board, and some good posters here, especially Stiffy18 who seems very informative. Hope not to tread on anyone's shoes-here's just my two cents worth.

A first-round pick (at best will be pick 13) is doubtful to be given up without some balancing on your clubs behalf. Apparently, we are keen on your rookie list player, Aiden Parker-another Sandgroper. I personally wouldn't be too disheartened to see us give up a 1st rounder due to the fact we'll snare a would-be top 10 pick in Mitch Morton in the third round. It therefore makes it expendable, especially in a week draft. However, obviously a second-rounder would be of more benefit to the club. I acknowledge that pick 29 is far too little compensation and would suggest that no later than around pick 22 in a deal would suffice. 22 in a draft is nothing to sneeze at. We got Butler at 20 last year (probably due to most teams being scared off by his soccer background) and Paul Johnson at 24 who apparently we rated as the 3rd best in the 2002 Draft. Some gems can be found in the early 2nd round.

I don't believe there to be any substance to Waters rumour currently circulating and Butler is by all accounts very happy here, as he seemed to be at last nights training session. These two are off limits. Seaby would make a great fit for the Crows, but with Gardiner possibly having to be shifted from the ruck for the remainder of his career, this would make Seabs the 2nd stringer of the ruck department. Kerr and Cousins have set aside their differences and won't be traded (coincidentally another former early second-round pick himself).

To get a deal done, we must look at what both teams need. Understandably, you need a ruckman to cover for Clarke's imminent retirement and some midfielders to replacing your ageing crew. We are overloaded with midfield talent. As it is, many of our midfielders either can't crack a game or don't get the game time they deserve. To get the most out of Stinger therefore, we'd have to trade from our midfield corps. Green, Humm, Munro, R. Jones, Adkins and Chambers are all our fringe midfielders, some of whom would be regulars in other teams midfield department. Personally, an on-traded pick 22, R. Jones or Adkins + Zac Beeck might be feasible and stock up two crucial areas of your squad. Many of my fellow Eagles fans might rip me for this suggestion, but you don't want Humm or Munro (they're both hacks), Green is too angry and there ever only seems to be room for either Chambers or Adkins in our squad at the one time. Despite Adkins recent outings for us, I am still firmly entrenched in Chambers' corner. Adkins disposal may be suspect at times, but his intensity is not lacking. Rowan Jones is a tremendous strong mark with leadership qualities akin to Stingers, exemplified by his vice-captaincy of the club this year. Braun for Stinger would be a last resort and is a good enough straight swap. Braun is severely underestimated but a key component to the success of our midfield. I'd hate for us to lose him.

Finally, a three-way deal isn't out of the question. An Essendon supporter came up with a suggestion earlier in this thread that may not be too far-fetched. Essendon are reportedly keen on Paul Johnson, whilst I like the look of Jason Laycock and Luke Jericho from your squad. Possibly:

Eagles: Stenglein, Jericho, Laycock
Adelaide: WC's 1st rounder, Adkins/R. Jones, Mark Johnson
Essendon: WC's 2nd rounder, Paul Johnson, Adelaide's 2nd rounder, Green

Not too sure, doesn't seem fair on Essendon and it's something off the top of my head but it's just an example of what other clubs are looking at if a third member becomes involved. Who knows, but hopefully something equitable for both clubs is resultant.