Steve Waugh

[Gough]

Biggest f***wit to ever captain Australia. Under Taylor and Border, Australia was a team that was respected both on and off the field. It seems to me that under Waugh Australia's cricketers gained a reputation for being boorish bad losers and very poor winners. Sadly, this seems to have carried on in the Ponting era. Let's be honest about this, with the talent that Waugh had at his disposal, I could have probably captained that team and had a pretty fair win loss ratio.
The fact that most teams around the world now carry on in a similar fashion to the Waugh era Australian team leads me to believe that the legacy he has left world cricket is a very negative one.
I have always admired his ability to make the most out of his ability, Mark was certainly the more gifted of the twins but the way that he conducted himself on the field left a great deal to be desired.
I expect to be slaughtered for this opinion, but I know of a number of cricket writers who would not disagree with this hypothesis.

 

[BarneyBent]

Yeah, he's a ********. Still a phenomenal player and captain though.

 

[courtjester]

Biggest f***wit to ever captain Australia. Under Taylor and Border, Australia was a team that was respected both on and off the field. It seems to me that under Waugh Australia's cricketers gained a reputation for being boorish bad losers and very poor winners. Sadly, this seems to have carried on in the Ponting era. Let's be honest about this, with the talent that Waugh had at his disposal, I could have probably captained that team and had a pretty fair win loss ratio.
The fact that most teams around the world now carry on in a similar fashion to the Waugh era Australian team leads me to believe that the legacy he has left world cricket is a very negative one.
I have always admired his ability to make the most out of his ability, Mark was certainly the more gifted of the twins but the way that he conducted himself on the field left a great deal to be desired.
I expect to be slaughtered for this opinion, but I know of a number of cricket writers who would not disagree with this hypothesis.

That's pathetic, unsubstantiated crap mate. Vitriolic and hyperbolic. Why dont you apply for a job at the Herald Sun?

Fact is Waugh's team were hardly ever losers, so they weren't poor losers and I cant recall them being poor losers.

Second fact is you have never and will never captain Australia, so who cares if you think you could have done a fair job.

Third fact is that I hear people crap on about his conduct on the field, but I'd challenge you to provide five examples of times his conduct "left a great deal to be desired".

And finally, who cares if cricket writers agree with you? What's their job? To create scandal to sell copy. Hardly leaves them unbiased. If anyone displays natural petulance or aggravation (even for five seconds), they are all over it like the bottom feeding jackals that they are.

 

[pistonbroke23]

That's pathetic, unsubstantiated crap mate. Vitriolic and hyperbolic. Why dont you apply for a job at the Herald Sun?

Fact is Waugh's team were hardly ever losers, so they weren't poor losers and I cant recall them being poor losers.

Second fact is you have never and will never captain Australia, so who cares if you think you could have done a fair job.

Third fact is that I hear people crap on about his conduct on the field, but I'd challenge you to provide five examples of times his conduct "left a great deal to be desired".

And finally, who cares if cricket writers agree with you? What's their job? To create scandal to sell copy. Hardly leaves them unbiased. If anyone displays natural petulance or aggravation (even for five seconds), they are all over it like the bottom feeding jackals that they are.

He was a good player.Not great.Unbelievably over rated by 9 commentaters.Average skipper of an increadable team.Im in Warneys corner on S Waugh.

 

[Phone]

This thread is a bit random.

Not that I really disagree with the points made, give me Mark as a player anyday and Taylor as a captain.

 

[King Elvis]

That's pathetic, unsubstantiated crap mate. Vitriolic and hyperbolic. Why dont you apply for a job at the Herald Sun?

Fact is Waugh's team were hardly ever losers, so they weren't poor losers and I cant recall them being poor losers.

Second fact is you have never and will never captain Australia, so who cares if you think you could have done a fair job.

Third fact is that I hear people crap on about his conduct on the field, but I'd challenge you to provide five examples of times his conduct "left a great deal to be desired".

And finally, who cares if cricket writers agree with you? What's their job? To create scandal to sell copy. Hardly leaves them unbiased. If anyone displays natural petulance or aggravation (even for five seconds), they are all over it like the bottom feeding jackals that they are.

Good stuff cj, totally on the money.

The bold is the main thing - our behaviour didn't change, but people didn't give a shit about perceived arrogance or aggression when we weren't winning.

 

[jiphoc]

Waugh and Ponting are in my (and a lot of friends of mine who are not bias Aussies) opinion the 2 worst captains in modern cricket for Australia. Taylor I think is genuinely accepted to have been the best.

The win/loss record Waugh had has to be ignored when you consider that he has the very best players around the world in the one team. An under 11s player would have been able to captain that team and be successful.

However this is nothing to do with Waugh or Ponting as players. Waugh in the mid 90's had a patch where he never looked like getting out and Ponting has destroyed teams single handedly and saved Australia on many occasions with the bat.

However tactically, public perception and their respective public profiles which they have portrayed are very bad if you are not wearing green and gold glasses. For those who want an example of this look no further then 2005 ashes and the big hissy fit Ponting made both on field and off field about England using perfectly legal tactics. Punter in that time would have been damn close to been hit with the charge off bring the game into disrepute (or something of the nature). Not an image you want from your captain and if certainly paid a big part in Australia loosing the ashes imo.

 

[crownie]

no doubt had some great talent under him but he played a big part in leading us to a remarkable world cup 99 win which is one of the biggest reasons why the Australian Cricket team in both forms has been near unbeatable for over a decade.

as for being poor losers well thats nearly always the tag successful sporting teams get put on them.

 

[King Elvis]

For those who want an example of this look no further then 2005 ashes and the big hissy fit Ponting made both on field and off field about England using perfectly legal tactics.

Perfectly legal, yet completely out of the spirit of the game and terrible sportsmanship.

Has since been a rule change to stop that happening, hasn't there?

 

[blackhead&boil]

I dont think waugh or ponting are the most brilliant tactical captains I've ever seen but their leadership is strong in many other ways.

also, I can't agree with the statement that australia were seen as good guys before waugh came along. in fact, one of the things that taylor first said he wanted to achieve as captain was to improve australia's image. border was nicknamed 'captain grumpy' and the aussies were far from popular.



taylor>border>ponting>waugh, if you ask m, but I wouldn't exactly say that waugh was a disgrace...

 

[Bomber Bears]

Steve Waugh is king
[youtube]YKKVFAe5ZHg[/youtube]

no one got the SCG rocking like him

 

[King Elvis]

I dont think waugh or ponting are the most brilliant tactical captains I've ever seen but their leadership is strong in many other ways.

also, I can't agree with the statement that australia were seen as good guys before waugh came along. in fact, one of the things that taylor first said he wanted to achieve as captain was to improve australia's image. border was nicknamed 'captain grumpy' and the aussies were far from popular.



taylor>border>ponting>waugh, if you ask m, but I wouldn't exactly say that waugh was a disgrace...

It's revisionist bullshit to try and denigrate two Captains who've led us through periods of unprecedent dominance.

Same as people pretend the Windies were angels back in the day.

 

[blackhead&boil]

It's revisionist bullshit to try and denigrate two Captains who've led us through periods of unprecedent dominance.

Same as people pretend the Windies were angels back in the day.

er, are you agreeing with me here? not quite sure if you're suggesting that I am denigrating past captains, or if you're backing me up...


(EDIT: just read your previous comments which clarify your position )

 

[Indian_Hotdog]

Same as people pretend the Windies were angels back in the day.

No angels but they were far more well behaved than the aussie lot.

 

[Ill Chicken]

No angels but they were far more well behaved than the aussie lot.

Example?

 

[Phone]

Michael Holding reacting to a "not out" from the umpire in 79-80.

Bit of a low blow using this picture seeing how it's my favourite cricket picture I've seen, but still....

 

[pickman]

Waugh brought a ruthless edge to the Australian side. No complaints from me for that.

 

[Santana]

Speaking of w***er teams, India have been one for quite awhile now, without having achieved all that much.

 

[pickman]

Speaking of w***er teams, India have been one for quite awhile now, without having achieved all that much.

Agree

The Indian cricket team take being a bunch of soft w***ers to a new level.

 

[jiphoc]

Perfectly legal, yet completely out of the spirit of the game and terrible sportsmanship.

Has since been a rule change to stop that happening, hasn't there?

I do not think the rule has been changed since. Besides Australia has used a similar tactic in home series recently anyway by taking top lower level fieldsman and using them as 12th men.

However all that is besides my point. Punter made a big public deal about that this and did so in the wrong way. He made both himself and the Australian cricket team look like fools by doing so as well. Sure make a comment of it if you want. However he went on and on about it and really did make a mess of the whole issue. Not what a captain is suppose to do.

 

[jiphoc]

Speaking of w***er teams, India have been one for quite awhile now, without having achieved all that much.

Without having achieved that much? Man what are you smoking?

Currently the best test side in the world and 2nd in the ODI standings.

I would say that counts for achieving something.

 

[the_sports_fan]

Back to Steve Waugh for a sec

You have to remember at the time Australia had the best spin/fast/keeper batsmen/opening batsmen combos in the world, it does create massive egos.

There were are alot of egos on that team, and Steve Waugh with his no nosense approach took the team of champions and turned them into a champion team. He set aggressive fields and maintained them, resisted the urge to put sweepers like they do now.

He lead by example on and off the field, let his actions do the talking most of the time. Majority of the time was humble in winning and gracious in losing.

I mean you can go on and on, but the background stuff what people forget is what made him great and that team great.

I think Border layed the foundation, Taylor built it up and Waugh put the icing on the cake.

 

[estibador]

There were are alot of egos on that team, and Steve Waugh with his no nosense approach took the team of champions and turned them into a champion team.

Yeah people act like anyone could win every match with the squad he had but a lot of the talent was already there before he took over and we weren't some all-conquering, record setting team back then.

I reckon there was a noticeable change in the Aussie team when he took over. They took on an ultra-professional hard edge - an absolutely relentless and ruthless approach to winning that wasn't quite there under the more jovial and relaxed Taylor.

 

[Ill Chicken]

Without having achieved that much? Man what are you smoking?

Currently the best test side in the world and 2nd in the ODI standings.

I would say that counts for achieving something.

Yeah, they're a super convincing team out of Asia.

 

[jiphoc]

Yeah, they're a super convincing team out of Asia.

Well they have not exactly been unconvincing at the same time. I still rate Saffa a better side then India though. Australia although is well behind both teams imo. England may even find themselves ahead soon with the talent coming through there (mostly Saffa expats).