Steve Waugh

[Ill Chicken]

Seriously, this era is nothing in comparison Neil Harvey era's, that was elite cricket back then.

 

[courtjester]

Seriously, this era is nothing in comparison Neil Harvey era's, that was elite cricket back then.

lol...

 

[amer]

On the subject of bowling quality, we'll be back. You only need to look at the likes of Hazlewood, Starc, George, Hilf to see that there's legit quality coming through. Can't speak for the other nations though.

 

[damochandler]

rubbish thread really. bagging a legend of the game and a champion off the field with what he has done with his charity work

with the 1998 ashes test at the mcg. dean headly won that test. it wasn't steve that lost that test

our future is bright

 

[lemmon]

What dross, India would've killed to have a character like Waugh to instill the 'win at all costs', aggressive attitude. Instead they have had guys like Dravid and Ganguly as captain who were more concerned about their own numbers then the teams. I couldn't give a stuff how the world perceives us when his attitude and captaincy has led us to where we are now, as carried on by Punter. If Clarke does one thing I hope its too maintain and protect this aggressive ethos that has characterized Australian cricket.

 

[Oliver09]

rubbish thread really. bagging a legend of the game and a champion off the field with what he has done with his charity work

with the 1998 ashes test at the mcg. dean headly won that test. it wasn't steve that lost that test

our future is bright

Headley won that test for England by getting out the tailenders that Waugh put on strike after pushing singles at the start of the over. The Poms wanted him to get a single & he did it. How often would you see Hussey do that?

 

[damochandler]

Headley won that test for England by getting out the tailenders that Waugh put on strike after pushing singles at the start of the over. The Poms wanted him to get a single & he did it. How often would you see Hussey do that?

look at the scorecard before you make a statement like that

headly got

mark waugh
slater
lehmann and
healy before he got his first tailender

 

[redragger]

Steve Waugh was a player who, when batting, put himself first & the team second. Cost us a Boxing Day Test match against England in 98. Was more worried about getting his average over 50 than batting for the team.

Quite regularly when making a 100 his strike rate would drop for the rest of his innings because he knew a not out was around the corner if he hung around long enough.

His refusal to go up the order was also a sore point for many who followed the game & inexperienced batsman at the time such as Ponting, Langer & Blewett were thrown in at the deep end & put in at 3 after Boons retirement before they were ready beause Steve wouldn't move up the order & were dropped.

His back to the wall century in the 99 World Cup was more to do with his captaincy being on the line as it was only his second or 3 third ton in one day cricket in 14 years. People believe it was this that won us the World Cup but it was Warne in the Semi & Final who won it for us. This wasn't long after Waugh dropped Warne in the West Indies which was a disgraceful decision.

Waugh had a charmed run with the selectors in the early stages of his career & was still just an average Test batsman up until about 93-94 but then became a much better player. His rise did come at the same time as the fast bowling stocks around the world started to drop & a few of the greats such as Ambrose, Walsh, Akram & Waqar got old & injuries. Ambrose for 1 used to toy with him until he had a shoulder reco in 94 but after he had that surgery he wasn't as fersome & Waugh was able to handle him a lot easier.

Waugh was a good player no doubt but the 'legend' got out of hand in the last 4-5 years of his career. The whole lucky rag & baggy green thing was just a big w**k. I would have Border & Boon (players of similar style) ahead of him any day day of the week.

What you have written are pretty much my exact thoughts on Steve Waugh. Downright selfish individual, and as you say the lucky red rag and baggy green thing was just one big wank, pandering to the Australian public and their want for patriotism.

I used to throw things at the TV when he'd be batting with the tail and get singles early in the over. Fanboys like Benaud would say 'he trusts his partner' and crap like that; the tail would inevitably shit the bed, and Waugh would be left with 90 something n.o. and everyone's sympathy. His average improved, but it cost the side 40-50 runs each time 'cause he'd refuse to hit out.

I used to have a video of the 92-93 World Series Cup highlights, and there was one moment on there that sums Steve Waugh up to a tea, and is marked indeliby in my mind.

It was from this cracking game (which was ironically won by his brother)
http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65499.html

As you can see from the scorecard, the Windies were cruising to victory before a dramatic collapse in front of a typically raucous MCG crowd.

Anyway, take note of the Logie dismissal. - 'run out'

This is the run down -

Steve Waugh comes in around the wicket to Arthurton, and bowls a yorker length ball that Arthurton jams down on and flies high in the air above Healy's head. Healy leaps up and takes with one hand and notices Logie scampering through for the single. Healy rolls the ball down, and runs Logie out at the strikers end. The entire team goes bananas, along with the crowd as they are witnessing a huge Windies collapse and improbable Aussie win. Not everyone is excited though. As the team celebrates Healy's run out, one S.Waugh stands mid-pitch cursing and complaining to the umpire that he didn't give Arthurton out caught behind (which it clearly wasn't). Don't be happy that your team just got a wicket, be pissed off that your bowling analysis hasn't got an extra wicket in its' column. I'm sure everyone by now has the picture of Waugh's petulant whingey face in their minds. It was completely typical of Waugh's me first attitude. And take note of the season this incident occurred - yep you guessed it, the 92-93 Windies tour where Waugh mailed it in batting at 3 against the big boys. Yep, no time for 'Tugga' at all...

 

[Oliver09]

look at the scorecard before you make a statement like that

headly got

mark waugh
slater
lehmann and
healy before he got his first tailender

Headley, Gough, Fraser, Cork, Malcom, Caddick or whichever middle of the road English paceman of the 90's might've got the tailend wickets but the point is Waugh put them on strike first chance he got & it was a selfish display of batting.

As the very good post by redragger says Waugh would 'trust' his tailender instead of hitting out so he would get a not out. Not a bad thing to do when you are 450 odd in the first innings of a Test Match but when a Test Match is on the line it's the wrong thing to do & any team orientated batsman wouldn't do it.

Watch Hussey bat with the tail. I saw him put on over 100 runs at the G one day (05?) with Glenn Mcgrath by manipulating the strike & knocking back the singles on offer early in an over. We were behind the 8 ball when that 10th wicket stand started but ended up in a comfortable position. Watch his innings against the Pakis this year in Sydney. Without that we are close to losing by an innings yet we end up winning. I believe Hussey should've been dropped long ago so I'm no fanboy but he has the right attitude when batting with the tail. On both these occasions Waugh would've 'trusted' his tailend partners & we would be in all sorts, just like 98.

 

[Yaaablett]

This garbage makes me sick. Steve Waugh was a great captain, a great batsman and a great patriotic Australian.

How often would he come in to bat when we were in trouble and save us?

You clowns who bag him are nothing short of pathetric, jealous nobodies.

Steve Waugh- bloody hero.

 

[Oliver09]

This garbage makes me sick. Steve Waugh was a great captain, a great batsman and a great patriotic Australian.

How often would he come in to bat when we were in trouble and save us?

You clowns who bag him are nothing short of pathetric, jealous nobodies.

Steve Waugh- bloody hero.

A Great patriotic Australian? Just because he wore a battered baggy green & his favourite singer is John Williamson. How often dis he 'save' Australia? It got to the point where we would be 3/150 & he'd make a decent score so he 'saved' the country. Absolute extreme w*nk factor. Maybe if he went in at 3 instead of staying down the order we wouldn't have beenin trouble all those times would we?

To play for as long as he did, even taking into account the dream run selectors gave him in his first 3-4 years, no doubt makes him a great player but the way the media banged on about him, especially NSW based media, was just way over the top. He seemed to revel in the image that was created by the media as well. His brother was just as good but with his more attacking, team orientated batting his average was 7-8 runs less. He made a comment once that he couldn't understand how a bloke could play & miss & scratch around for 4-5 hours & make 80-90 & everyone would say how gutsy it was yet he'd make 60-70 in a couple of hours then be dismissed & criticized for going out softly or throwing it away.

 

[Yaaablett]

A Great patriotic Australian? Just because he wore a battered baggy green & his favourite singer is John Williamson. How often dis he 'save' Australia? It got to the point where we would be 3/150 & he'd make a decent score so he 'saved' the country. Absolute extreme w*nk factor. Maybe if he went in at 3 instead of staying down the order we wouldn't have beenin trouble all those times would we?

To play for as long as he did, even taking into account the dream run selectors gave him in his first 3-4 years, no doubt makes him a great player but the way the media banged on about him, especially NSW based media, was just way over the top. He seemed to revel in the image that was created by the media as well. His brother was just as good but with his more attacking, team orientated batting his average was 7-8 runs less. He made a comment once that he couldn't understand how a bloke could play & miss & scratch around for 4-5 hours & make 80-90 & everyone would say how gutsy it was yet he'd make 60-70 in a couple of hours then be dismissed & criticized for going out softly or throwing it away.

You'd be the expert on extreme w*nk factor. A pure demonstration of the art! People like you make me sick.

Any proof on the Mark Waugh statement? Sounds like you have more against the media and selectors than the great man himself?

If you can honestly say that Steve didnt save us plenty of times then debating with you is pointless.

If people can bag this bloke for what he has done for cricket and the character he showed, the pride he evoked in playing for the baggy green, then I feel sorry for you. Life must be tough being you.

 

[Santoz]

^^^^^ What he said.

Any man that can turn a hack into cow corner off the spinners into an actual cricket shot (the slog sweep) is a hero in my book.

 

[redragger]

A Great patriotic Australian? Just because he wore a battered baggy green & his favourite singer is John Williamson. How often dis he 'save' Australia? It got to the point where we would be 3/150 & he'd make a decent score so he 'saved' the country. Absolute extreme w*nk factor. Maybe if he went in at 3 instead of staying down the order we wouldn't have beenin trouble all those times would we?

To play for as long as he did, even taking into account the dream run selectors gave him in his first 3-4 years, no doubt makes him a great player but the way the media banged on about him, especially NSW based media, was just way over the top. He seemed to revel in the image that was created by the media as well. His brother was just as good but with his more attacking, team orientated batting his average was 7-8 runs less. He made a comment once that he couldn't understand how a bloke could play & miss & scratch around for 4-5 hours & make 80-90 & everyone would say how gutsy it was yet he'd make 60-70 in a couple of hours then be dismissed & criticized for going out softly or throwing it away.

Mate you are dead on. Unfortunately for some of the bogans around here, its like shooting Bambi. They can't fathom that their 'great Aussie hero' was a fraud.

 

[Yaaablett]

Mate you are dead on. Unfortunately for some of the bogans around here, its like shooting Bambi. They can't fathom that their 'great Aussie hero' was a fraud.

Typical response from Aussie bashers. Anyone who supports our cricketers must be a bogan. Envy must be a tough thing to live with. Chin up champ you're life can't be that bad?

Fraud? Anything at all to back that statement up?

 

[redragger]

Typical response from Aussie bashers. Anyone who supports our cricketers must be a bogan. Envy must be a tough thing to live with. Chin up champ you're life can't be that bad?

Fraud? Anything at all to back that statement up?

Where have I said that I didn't support Aussie cricket?

I've given a brief rundown on my thoughts about Steve Waugh in previous posts, and supported Oliver09's thoughts as well as they pretty much mirror mine. The contrived patriotism and selfishness is my main gripe with him. As for envy? You've got to be kidding.

He endeared himself to the tabloid media, and subsequently had most of Australia sucked in (including you). One day you'll wake up and start thinking for yourself instead of following the crowd. Until then you'll stay on the Steve Waugh/James Hird/Glenn Archer bandwagon...

 

[Santoz]

I've given a brief rundown on my thoughts about Steve Waugh in previous posts, and supported Oliver09's thoughts as well as they pretty much mirror mine. The contrived patriotism and selfishness is my main gripe with him. As for envy? You've got to be kidding.

Can you explain to me how you believe he exhibited contrived patriotism?

 

[redragger]

Can you explain to me how you believe he exhibited contrived patriotism?

Have already mate. Read back through my posts...

 

[Santoz]

What you have written are pretty much my exact thoughts on Steve Waugh. Downright selfish individual, and as you say the lucky red rag and baggy green thing was just one big wank, pandering to the Australian public and their want for patriotism.

Have already mate. Read back through my posts...

I'm sorry but this is all I could find and it still doesn't explain to me at all exactly why you think his red rag and baggy green were contrived.

 

[redragger]

I'm sorry but this is all I could find and it still doesn't explain to me at all exactly why you think his red rag and baggy green were contrived.

Your detective work is on the money, they are my two examples.

Both the red rag and tattered baggy green were made an issue of and run with by the media as ockerish Australian traits. Waugh pandered to the public by continuing with this ruse. Instead of getting a new baggy green like any normal person would, he made a big song and dance by sending it to the maker and getting it refurbished. He could thus carry on the notion that he was playing in the cap that was soaked in blood, sweat, beer etc. to placate the media and public. It was a whole big wank...

 

[Ill Chicken]

I'm sorry but this is all I could find and it still doesn't explain to me at all exactly why you think his red rag and baggy green were contrived.

I thought it was pink, he was "pandering" to breast cancer research really, long before anyone had a reason to.

 

[Oliver09]

Where have I said that I didn't support Aussie cricket?

I've given a brief rundown on my thoughts about Steve Waugh in previous posts, and supported Oliver09's thoughts as well as they pretty much mirror mine. The contrived patriotism and selfishness is my main gripe with him. As for envy? You've got to be kidding.

He endeared himself to the tabloid media, and subsequently had most of Australia sucked in (including you). One day you'll wake up and start thinking for yourself instead of following the crowd. Until then you'll stay on the Steve Waugh/James Hird/Glenn Archer bandwagon...

Your last comment is so true. On Glenn Archer anyone would think Carey did his missus & not Stevens. A lot of people believe that Archer would've flogged Carey in a blue but the opposite is true. Good player but reputation blown up because he stuck by Stevens, which many others did also.

As an Essendon supporter I obviously have a soft spot for Hird but I see where you are coming from. It all went a bit over the top in the media the last 3-4 years he played. You would think he single handedly won 6 flags on his own for the club. Great player but there were plenty of others around him. As for being our saviour as coach I don't think he'd have the temprament for it, he could get sulky on the ground when things weren't going so well so who knows how he'd react in the coaches box with our current team!!

Someone said something about a pink rag & breast cancer? Might've been a 1 off if it ever happened at all. Always had a 'lucky' red rag, although we didn't hear about it until later in his career.

 

[Butts_JZZ30]

Steve Waugh was an excellent captain, sure he had a fabulous side to captain, but he managed the squad well and kept the winning attitude. I think he did a great job. He might not of been as good as AB or Taylor as a captain, but he was still certainly VERY good. Don't dismiss his ability either, he has an average over 50 and has scored numerous test 100's. He also scored against some strong attacks early in his career. He was tough, hard and uncomprising, exactly what I expect from an AUS captain.

 

[Oliver09]

You'd be the expert on extreme w*nk factor. A pure demonstration of the art! People like you make me sick.

Any proof on the Mark Waugh statement? Sounds like you have more against the media and selectors than the great man himself?

If you can honestly say that Steve didnt save us plenty of times then debating with you is pointless.

If people can bag this bloke for what he has done for cricket and the character he showed, the pride he evoked in playing for the baggy green, then I feel sorry for you. Life must be tough being you.

Mark Waugh made that comment in the mid-late 90s in an interview I read, might've been Inside Sport or something like that, don't quite remember. Can you prove that I made that up?

Any batsman at 5 is going to come in occasionally when a few wickets have fallen early but don't ever forget there was a pretty good top order that we had for the majority of his career. Maybe if he'd been at 3 he could've stopped these frequent collapses from occuring. Border might've had it a bit tougher on that front. He just got on with it & didn't play up to the whole 'Aussie battler' image, no lucky rag or battered baggy green. He even used to wear a wide brimmed white hat. Does that make him unpatriotic?

Just because I have a certain opinion on Steve Waugh doesn't mean that I hate the whole team. I also believe that cricketers represent themselves first & country second & anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Just look how often batsmen in particular will play injured so they don't give someone else a look in. Of course it also happens in footy but you have interchange & 22 players. It's the most individual team game there is. The best example of this was the last test in the 2001 Ashes when Waugh played with a torn calf. It was his last chance to play in England & he wouldn't give that up for a young player to gain experience (Katich). Sure he made a 100 but he took forever to doing it compared to the rest of the batting in that innings.

 

[blackhead&boil]

Someone said something about a pink rag & breast cancer? Might've been a 1 off if it ever happened at all. Always had a 'lucky' red rag, although we didn't hear about it until later in his career.

the red rag gradually turned pink over time as the colour faded. nothing to do with breast cancer.

and on the baggy green, it was always my understanding that every player is issued one baggy green and that is it. you'd only get another one if yours was stolen or lost.

as far as the mark waugh quote goes, it sounds familiar to me and seems to align with his overall cricket philosophy. I'd say it was genuine. pretty hard to summon up a source several years later, though.



a funny thing when you compare the career stats of steve and mark. public perception would be that mark was erratic and steve was mr consistency, but the facts don't actually support that.

steve finished with a considerably higher average, but was actually a lot less consistent than his brother. he had a very high number of ducks compared to mark (despite his run of 4 in a row), and mark had a much lower percentage of dismissals below 25. steve's average was high because when he made a score he made a BIG one. heaps of knocks of 150+ and a lot of them not out. in other words, he was good at grinding the bowlers into the ground once he was on top. mark, on the other hand, only had 1 score over 150 and many scores between 100-145 (a lot of them sequential, curiously enough).

personally, if I was a captain, I would prefer more frequent and dependable innings at a faster rate/lower average than a series of massive scores punctuating frequent failures...