Stopping the flow.

[Lach72]

The disappointing thing yesterday was the inability to stop the flow of their play in the last quarter.

It seems to me there is no instruction or plan of ho to protect the lead.
Personally what I'd like to see when we're on front as we were yesterday is a complete change of plan.

When we were 26 up and they got the next two and 3 goals our set ups should change to a defensive plan.
Play one or even two behind the ball.

The priority is to stop the run on in its tracks.
At bounces, the mindset is defensive so we can stop them getting easily away from the packs.
Once we have stopped the flow, then think about pushing forward again.
Hawthorn did this to us as soon as they got 2 goals in front to ensure we didn't get back. St Kilda did it for a half.

God knows Rhys would've been more useful there

 

[bfff]

1. Win clearances
2. Don't turn it over

When you have a lead you keep attacking.

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

we just lacked class in the midfield in the last quarter when hodge was brought into the midfield with mitchell, instead of hodge playing forward and being mostly useless prior to that. pav was brought into the mid to help wrestle things our way, but he's obviously down on form. the men we had in the middle just couldn't match it when the momentum swung.

 

[Lach72]

Exactly right.

So what do you do?

You block things up until you can steady

 

[muckypup]

Exactly right.

So what do you do?

You block things up until you can steady

Something I have wondered about for a couple of years. Our guys mostly look quite light compared to other teams? When the pressure rises they don't seem to be able hold tackles and lock it down. I do wonder about the conditioning work they do sometimes.

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

yep. you get all your ball winners into the middle and tag the runners. when you get the ball, you kick it to a mark and hold up play to wrest the momentum from the opposition.

 

[Lach72]

yep. you get all your ball winners into the middle and tag the runners. when you get the ball, you kick it to a mark and hold up play to wrest the momentum from the opposition.

When they got in front our guys were running out and there was only a sea of brown and gold...

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

when you're up you play by instinct and look dynamic, and when you're down, you end up over-thinking your movements and look stodgy. we need to act and not think.

if the club was a person, that dude would be having some kind of existential crisis. the club needs some moment of clarity or epiphany that crystallises their intent. at the moment, i don't think the coaches are sending the right messages to the playing the group. there is no reason why we can't be playing better with the team we have. collingwood have managed to get all of their players, best 22 or not, to play with the same intent. unfortunately we've got a bunch of girly girls who are either playing within themselves, or who have a problem with their ticker, which flags to me that their self doubts aren't being addressed by the coaches.

 

[SHill Shall]

I actually thought a key part of our problem was that we stopped doing what got us such a great lead. Then we had an attacking mindset, won the clearances and found running players streaming forward.

Almost invariably every time we stuffed it up during the game, we were looking backwards rather than forwards. On the few ocassions we found the ball in Q4 we were hesitant and unsure. No-one was making themselves available for an uncontested possession.

We won some of these tight games last year. Just need to get more accustomed to the pressure. This is still miles better than '09 or where I thought we'd be before the game.

 

[Sman-21]

The reason we never kill of teams an always let them back in is we stop doing what got us to that lead, we start playing defensively.
Start of the 4th quarter we went defensive.
Pav an deboer in midfield when for first 3 quarters they spent the majority of it up forward.
Because we had the defensive mindset instead of attacking we were beaten to the ball at stoppages an destroyed in midfield.

 

[Nickos66]

Stopping the flow? Pads or tampons. I'm not sure which MJ prefers.

 

[Freodoc]

Stopping the flow? Pads or tampons. I'm not sure which MJ prefers.

Really

Initially, I thought this thread was going to be about stopping the flow of negativity and absolute pettiness that has infiltrated our board over the past couple of weeks.
The above comment, I would have expected more of you than that Nicko, says it all...

I wonder if there are any posts from the REALLY DARK DAYS of the early 2000's, remember when we only won 2 games for the whole freaking season??

Lest we forget....

 

[Nickos66]

Probably should have added a face of some sort to the post. Wasn't really any malice in it tbh.

 

[apuchar]

Exactly right.

So what do you do?

You block things up until you can steady

Yep. Was not the time for Pav in the middle. Too attacking. We should have just played hard man on man in the centre square to make them fight for every possession out of the middle. the only way they could have beaten us was if they got a run on, which is exactly what we allowed them to do by letting them just walk away from centre clearances.

 

[Nodgey]

I seem to recall a player who had played under Malthouse saying that their team rule was that if the opposition got just 2 goals in a row, it was deemed a "run-on" and all players accordingly had to think more defensively. 3 in a row meant full-on defensive set-up.

It makes sense to me and definitely seems to have worked for his teams.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Pav used to be 'stopping the flow'. Used to be the only time he'd go in the middle. How times change.

 

[bauer5152]

The disappointing thing yesterday was the inability to stop the flow of their play in the last quarter.

It seems to me there is no instruction or plan of ho to protect the lead.
Personally what I'd like to see when we're on front as we were yesterday is a complete change of plan.

When we were 26 up and they got the next two and 3 goals our set ups should change to a defensive plan.
Play one or even two behind the ball.

The priority is to stop the run on in its tracks.
At bounces, the mindset is defensive so we can stop them getting easily away from the packs.
Once we have stopped the flow, then think about pushing forward again.
Hawthorn did this to us as soon as they got 2 goals in front to ensure we didn't get back. St Kilda did it for a half.

God knows Rhys would've been more useful there

Thanks you for the post.

__________________
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[dockshark]

Thanks you for the post.

ergh....WTF

 

[Lach72]

ergh....WTF

I think he likes me

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

It was pretty clear we were going down the boundary line in the last quarter, but the way we were going about it, leaving so much room in the corridor, was where Hawthorn ended up destroying us.

I agree with going down the line to slow the game down and choke Hawthorn out, but surely there are better ways to go about it? Something like all the numbers in the middle, then when we kick it out wide (hopefully to a contest where we have numerical advantage), we converge on the ball. I'd much rather the other team has the ball on centre wing than centre circle.

Obviously I don't have 30 years of football/coaching experience, but I can't understand how we allowed them that sort of space in the middle of the ground.

Oh to be a fly on the coaches box wall.

 

[EastcoastDocker]

Never had the players to be able to do this since our inception. In the middle, mundy is our best player, he'll win you the ball but he aint gonna stop his man from winning the clearance. Pav is much the same, tho now its debateable whether he can win an effective clearance, deboer and crowley will attempt to stop their opponents, but neither can be relied upon to win clearances. fyfe while being a gun is still a twig. hill doesnt have an inside game. Broughton can both win the ball and defend in a contested situation but not so much at the centre bounce

In many respects we are playing roulette in the centre square which is fine when the dice are loaded (sandilands). We havent developed a midfield or even a midfielder that can go both ways. Until we do so I think we will be highly susceptible to a big run of goals.

 

[TIME IS NOW]

We got lazy.

The goals they scored weren't from hard work, most of them were running into open goal.

We simply didnt push back hard enough and got lazy and hoped players would win the ball and kick it to them rather then be accountable.

We got very lucky with Dogs game. Look at that last 30 seconds, we had a host of players loose in the forward line. Ok so we won the ball in the middle and found Palmer who dropped an easy mark but was so open he was able to get ball through some hands to Lower who scored.

We had half a dozen players free in our half despite leading. Bulldogs gambled and threw all their players forward... we should've been accountable and manned them up or atleast got behind the ball.

History will show it as a great win and a great moment but that ball bounces another way in middle and you got Palmer, Lower, Fyfe, Mayne and couple of other players defending who exactly?

Our press is great up to a point but when thats broken we simply say bugger and dont push back. Hence the easy goals scored against us.

 

[EastcoastDocker]

gotta get the ball forward for the press to actually work. Collingwoods strategy works so well coz they can win the ball out of the middle very regularly with swan, pendles, ball and others. even if its a rushed kick they have 3 talls who are big and can create a contest.

In the 4th we couldnt win it out of the middle, when we did it was a quick kick into our forward line void of a proper key forward.

 

[malpaso]

This is why we need to get an assistant from the Swans in the offseason, they are very adept at 'locking down the play' for long periods of time even when they are struggling offensively. Annoying to watch but when your protecting a lead it's genius.

They did it against North in Melbourne earlier this year, holding onto a 1 pt lead for 3+mins after North had stormed back. Very effective..

 

[believe_it]

We got lazy.

The goals they scored weren't from hard work, most of them were running into open goal.

We simply didnt push back hard enough and got lazy and hoped players would win the ball and kick it to them rather then be accountable.

We got very lucky with Dogs game. Look at that last 30 seconds, we had a host of players loose in the forward line. Ok so we won the ball in the middle and found Palmer who dropped an easy mark but was so open he was able to get ball through some hands to Lower who scored.

We had half a dozen players free in our half despite leading. Bulldogs gambled and threw all their players forward... we should've been accountable and manned them up or atleast got behind the ball.

History will show it as a great win and a great moment but that ball bounces another way in middle and you got Palmer, Lower, Fyfe, Mayne and couple of other players defending who exactly?

Our press is great up to a point but when thats broken we simply say bugger and dont push back. Hence the easy goals scored against us.

Possibly. However in that game we were going for the win. At the weekend we tried and failed going defensively as they started to roll us. We became chasers instead of the chased. When we did go forward we didn't have the numbers and it came straight back out.