Analysis Strategy and Game Plan

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mattis117

Premium Platinum
Aug 20, 2010
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Perth, Western Australia, Australia
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Fremantle
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There's discussion happening in the JLO thread about strategy and game plan - I was surprised this didn't have its own thread as I think it deserves one. The whole AFL world is currently in a copy Collingwood mode, but you can't beat an opponent at their own game, it's usually a failing strategy. So what's going to happen in 2024?

I'm not in the AFL industry, but let's try to understand what's going on as regular punters. There are four ways in AFL in which to score, which I'll combine into two:
  1. Scores from stoppage (let's combine this with scores from centre bounce); and
  2. Scores from turnover (again, let's include scores from kick-outs, which are slightly different).
I combine these into just two scoring avenues as it simplifies the strategy discussion. Obviously, every team aims to maximise scores from every source, what tends to get lost in translation is that teams prioritise and train to win through one of them. There's many more layers to winning, e.g. in game tactics, who's playing on who, one off plays (e.g. Cox playing as a forward defender on Sicily last year). There's always an underlying strategy though, and I think this is what many struggle to understand, resulting in frustration when they don't hear what they want to hear from their club.

The head coach must select a strategy that complements the squad he has. If we look at Collingwood, we see that McRae has clearly put together a game plan where they win via score from turnover. That means they have excellent intercept ability, they intercept in areas where they can quickly counter attack, and they have the players that support the plan and can slingshot the ball rapidly. Think of Moore and Howe as the key interceptors, then they have De Goey, Crisp, and the Daicos brothers cutting teams up with power and pace through the middle. In essence, if you lose the contest to Collingwood, you've already lost the game, as they're beating you with their secondary priority. If you assume they're the best at scoring from turnover, then the only hope you have to beat them is to heavily dominate contest and play fast out of stoppage to prevent them from getting the team defense set up.

If you look at the 2nd team from last season, Brisbane, who are much more similar to Freo, they play the strategy of dominating contest, they have Neale, Dunkley et. al to win the ball at the source. They then focus on holding the ball in their forward line and forcing stoppage after stoppage. You may say, but they have Andrews and Coleman etc. to play the turnover game, well yes exactly, they have the ability to play both styles well, but they're definitely a contest first team. If your team can dominate at both scoring avenues, then you're going to be in premiership contention, as we see with Brisbane and Collingwood.

So to Freo, break down what the club has been banging on about since forever. We're a contest first team. Our priority is going to be to dominate stoppage. We have on paper a strong midfield unit, Darcy as a dominant tap ruckman feeding Fyfe, Serong, Brayshaw, Johnson, Young etc. This is also why we haven't valued wings as highly as a team that prioritises scoring from turnover. We actually want to have the additional inside mid on the short side to support winning the contest, and a fat side winger who will sacrifice his game some weeks, running up and down the field tirelessly. This is what Acres did brilliantly in 2022, he ran all day and provided an option on the fat side. That will be Sharp's job this year. But this position does not make or break our game plan, first and foremost, we must win stoppage.

Does this mean that Freo will take no risk trying to score from turnover? No it doesn't. All they're saying is that scoring from turnover is not the primary objective.

In summary, don't expect us to play like Collingwood. If we try to do that with the team we have, you'll get a worse result than what we saw last season. We don't have the midfield or wings to play like that. If we do well this year it will be because we're scoring from centre bounce like we did in 2022. That's what is so exciting about having Fyfe, Young, and Johnson looking powerful, we might just get back what made us so good in 2022. If you want to beat teams like Collingwood, you have to beat them at the contest and keep the ball out of their hands. Try to score as much as you can from centre bounce, and if you don't manage that, play in such a way that if you turn it over, they can't smash you on the rebound. Turn it over in safe areas.

End of essay haha.
 
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Good job. I was thinking a few weeks back of starting a thread like this, for those of us who want a space to think about strategy, structures, etc. rather than rating players. Can I suggest you give the thread title an "Analysis" tag?

Don't have much to say about this right now, except that I broadly agree with what you've said. The one thing that does warrant comment, though, is this: "If we do well this year it will be because we're scoring from centre bounce like we did in 2022".

I don't think that's quite right. We became a team that scored from stoppages, but we started the season being praised for an amazing team defence and intercept game, which led to us leading the comp in points from turnover differential at end of Rd 5, and at the bye being ranked #3 in scores from turnover differential:

"Under Fremantle’s bold game style in 2022, the Dockers currently lead the competition for points differential from turnovers, at +188 points after five rounds."

"Like Collingwood, the Dockers have been one of the League's great stories this season, with statistics showing they have improved dramatically in a host of key areas. They are the competition's best pressure team, a remarkable rise from 17th in the same category last year. Led by backline general Alex Pearce, they are now also the most difficult team to score against once the opposition takes the ball inside its forward 50. In 2021, Fremantle was the third easiest team to score against in that category. And to round out the rapid rise, its scores from turnover differential has gone from dead last to third in the space of 12 months. It's no wonder Justin Longmuir's team is just percentage off the competition lead."

Admittedly, the "points differential" stat shouldn't be confused with the "points scored" stat, but scoring from stoppages wasn't be commented on. By end of year, the West had us ranked #8 in scoring from stoppages:

"In 2022, Fremantle ranked inside the top six in points scored from turnovers, matching 90 per cent of premiers from the past decade, while it also ranked in the top eight for points scored from stoppages."

I don't know how reliable that report is because it flat out contradicts itself, declaring us top 6 in points scored from turnovers and then ranked 11th in the same stat 3 sentences later. And of course, this is reporting on the stats rather than the stats themselves (which I don't know where to access). But there's enough to suggest that 2022 was owed to more than scoring from the centre bounce.
 
Good job. I was thinking a few weeks back of starting a thread like this, for those of us who want a space to think about strategy, structures, etc. rather than rating players. Can I suggest you give the thread title an "Analysis" tag?

Don't have much to say about this right now, except that I broadly agree with what you've said. The one thing that does warrant comment, though, is this: "If we do well this year it will be because we're scoring from centre bounce like we did in 2022".

I don't think that's quite right. We became a team that scored from stoppages, but we started the season being praised for an amazing team defence and intercept game, which led to us leading the comp in points from turnover differential at end of Rd 5, and at the bye being ranked #3 in scores from turnover differential:

"Under Fremantle’s bold game style in 2022, the Dockers currently lead the competition for points differential from turnovers, at +188 points after five rounds."

"Like Collingwood, the Dockers have been one of the League's great stories this season, with statistics showing they have improved dramatically in a host of key areas. They are the competition's best pressure team, a remarkable rise from 17th in the same category last year. Led by backline general Alex Pearce, they are now also the most difficult team to score against once the opposition takes the ball inside its forward 50. In 2021, Fremantle was the third easiest team to score against in that category. And to round out the rapid rise, its scores from turnover differential has gone from dead last to third in the space of 12 months. It's no wonder Justin Longmuir's team is just percentage off the competition lead."

Admittedly, the "points differential" stat shouldn't be confused with the "points scored" stat, but scoring from stoppages wasn't be commented on. By end of year, the West had us ranked #8 in scoring from stoppages:

"In 2022, Fremantle ranked inside the top six in points scored from turnovers, matching 90 per cent of premiers from the past decade, while it also ranked in the top eight for points scored from stoppages."

I don't know how reliable that report is because it flat out contradicts itself, declaring us top 6 in points scored from turnovers and then ranked 11th in the same stat 3 sentences later. And of course, this is reporting on the stats rather than the stats themselves (which I don't know where to access). But there's enough to suggest that 2022 was owed to more than scoring from the centre bounce.
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I was going to say what ignoramus said. When we were on fire during 2022 we were the best turnover differential team which means we had the best balance between scoring from turnover and defending our own turnovers. We looked blisteringly fast at times playing this style even though we didn’t have the leg speed of other teams.

I also agree with mattis117 that our list is geared towards winning stoppage first and it’s obvious that our struggles in this regard was a massive reason for our slide last year.

From the match sim I watched live and the footage I have seen from this preaseason we are being encouraged to use the corridor. Against West Coast last week it was evident that this speeds up our transition and gives our forwards some really nice looks at the footy. It also looked like we don’t have the skills to execute this under the pressure of genuine contending sides, which is a bit of a worry.

I feel like winning stoppage and putting forward line pressure on is our best chance to beat sides this year but I am glad to see the team address our ball movement.
 
Good job. I was thinking a few weeks back of starting a thread like this, for those of us who want a space to think about strategy, structures, etc. rather than rating players. Can I suggest you give the thread title an "Analysis" tag?

Don't have much to say about this right now, except that I broadly agree with what you've said. The one thing that does warrant comment, though, is this: "If we do well this year it will be because we're scoring from centre bounce like we did in 2022".

I don't think that's quite right. We became a team that scored from stoppages, but we started the season being praised for an amazing team defence and intercept game, which led to us leading the comp in points from turnover differential at end of Rd 5, and at the bye being ranked #3 in scores from turnover differential:

"Under Fremantle’s bold game style in 2022, the Dockers currently lead the competition for points differential from turnovers, at +188 points after five rounds."

"Like Collingwood, the Dockers have been one of the League's great stories this season, with statistics showing they have improved dramatically in a host of key areas. They are the competition's best pressure team, a remarkable rise from 17th in the same category last year. Led by backline general Alex Pearce, they are now also the most difficult team to score against once the opposition takes the ball inside its forward 50. In 2021, Fremantle was the third easiest team to score against in that category. And to round out the rapid rise, its scores from turnover differential has gone from dead last to third in the space of 12 months. It's no wonder Justin Longmuir's team is just percentage off the competition lead."

Admittedly, the "points differential" stat shouldn't be confused with the "points scored" stat, but scoring from stoppages wasn't be commented on. By end of year, the West had us ranked #8 in scoring from stoppages:

"In 2022, Fremantle ranked inside the top six in points scored from turnovers, matching 90 per cent of premiers from the past decade, while it also ranked in the top eight for points scored from stoppages."

I don't know how reliable that report is because it flat out contradicts itself, declaring us top 6 in points scored from turnovers and then ranked 11th in the same stat 3 sentences later. And of course, this is reporting on the stats rather than the stats themselves (which I don't know where to access). But there's enough to suggest that 2022 was owed to more than scoring from the centre bounce.
You've said it a bit already, but rather than us being amazing at scoring from turnover, that points differential was more because we were very difficult to score against from turnover, which stems from the points I was making about making sure that if you're going to turn the ball over, i.e., no choice but to go to a contest, then you do so in the right area of the ground, making it difficult for the opponent to open you up if they win the contest.
This therefore stems from winning stoppage, again. If you are able to win the stoppage then you can dictate field position and play in a way that restricts the opponents ability to score from turnover.
 
Biggest issue I have with the JL method is the overuse of the handball out of the stoppage. It’s fine saying our trademark is to dominate stoppages (we were one of the worst in the AFL in this area last year incidentally, several times teams got a run on us with multiple consecutive goals kicked against us from stoppage) and we simply have to improve on this area. Expect we will with Fyfe and Young in there.

Every extra handball we use however in these intricate handball chains that the coaches seem to want to implement, increases the likelihood of a turnover against us. If you are asking our midfield group to make 6 or 7 consecutive high speed handballs out of a stoppage to find the players in the “perfect” position instead of kicking it inside 50 earlier in the chain, then there is greater risk involved and a higher chance of an errant handball at someone knees or behind them slightly.

Serong Aish, Brayshaw are all relatively small guys to be looping handballs over the heads of some of the giants today in the modern game too, and the amount of times that goes wrong is incredibly frustrating. Especially from centre bounce with 6:6:6 rule. Throw it on the boot and launch it inside 50 the first chance you get from centre bounce is a much more productive strategy IMO.
 
At the start of 22, I saw Slayshaw and Serong waxing via hands on their way out of a stoppage and it was, I swear, the hottest and most crisp exchange I have ever witnessed on the paddock in 40-odd years of watching footy. Funny thing was, they flipped it back and forth between each other one extra time and I swear they did it just because they could.

That year we also saw Brodie getting hands free and out while being tackled. Just standing up and doing what he came to do. He played his one club with absolute nonchalance.

Fast forward to 23 and we were seeing sloppy daisychains of hands being forced back on themselves until they collapsed. We saw the oppo know Brodie's one way out and chopping it off as it was happening.

The crispness was gone but the rote method remained. We gave up on thinking and just kept doing what had been drilled.

I don't mind if we flip the ball around a bit to find the best way out, but we need to be SUPER clean and we need to realise the best way out isn't always the one we practised. More freedom in the moment, less belief that the opposition are just going to let you do what you drilled.

The thing that teams who play the Richmond way rely on is having contested-ball winners on every line. So you don't have to move it forward with absolute precision. You just know the nuggety little freak you got it in the vicinity of is going to do all he can to win it and move it on in turn.

That ability we had to surgically transfer the pill with millimetre-perfect hands is a wonderful thing to have but you are deadset ****ed if you rely on it.

I think Serong and Brayshaw know this. I hope the backline does.

I also think Fyfey has learned that he can't smash his way through any more and he will use first hands opportunity. When he began, Fyfe used to handpass it to where he thought Fyfe would get it but we didn't have a team of Fyfes and it often came unstuck. I reckon the response and anticipation relflexes of our current onball unit is much better and we will see Fyfe win ball and immediately and successfully flick it to a moving target more often.

At least, that's what I hope.

In terms of intiaiting fast movement out of defence, one thing we should be able to do with Jacko, Fyfe and Darcy playing is have that outlet kick coming out.

I will murder something if I see Luke Ryan longbomb it to Darcy over and over again, just ignoring any other way.
 
Biggest issue I have with the JL method is the overuse of the handball out of the stoppage. It’s fine saying our trademark is to dominate stoppages (we were one of the worst in the AFL in this area last year incidentally, several times teams got a run on us with multiple consecutive goals kicked against us from stoppage) and we simply have to improve on this area. Expect we will with Fyfe and Young in there.

Every extra handball we use however in these intricate handball chains that the coaches seem to want to implement, increases the likelihood of a turnover against us. If you are asking our midfield group to make 6 or 7 consecutive high speed handballs out of a stoppage to find the players in the “perfect” position instead of kicking it inside 50 earlier in the chain, then there is greater risk involved and a higher chance of an errant handball at someone knees or behind them slightly.

Serong Aish, Brayshaw are all relatively small guys to be looping handballs over the heads of some of the giants today in the modern game too, and the amount of times that goes wrong is incredibly frustrating. Especially from centre bounce with 6:6:6 rule. Throw it on the boot and launch it inside 50 the first chance you get from centre bounce is a much more productive strategy IMO.
Some of what I saw in the trial games was going out wider with the exit from the contest. This lead to some creative and risky disposals, through legs and wotnot, plus requiring players keeping shape out wider, but pretty effective in getting away in the end.
 
Myself and many others will be disappointed if the coaching panel haven't changed our kick-out procedure

The long bomb from Ryan just does not work and is very predictable...maybe even a play from say Clark or Warner whereby they go for a gallop before kicking it in occasionally

Will watch tonight with interest

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

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Myself and many others will be disappointed if the coaching panel haven't changed our kick-out procedure

The long bomb from Ryan just does not work and is very predictable...maybe even a play from say Clark or Warner whereby they go for a gallop before kicking it in occasionally

Will watch tonight with interest

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Even when Port went long bomb from kick out it tonight it was corridor i.e. backing your players to half the first contest and if you win the second one you’re having a shot at the other end in 2-3 more disposals.

It just seems our kick outs have two options - the opposition rebounding it back in or the ball going out of bounds.
 
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Strategy and game plan?
 
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Strategy and game plan?

If that game was anything to go by this thread we’ll have three Vent threads on this board:
1. The actual Vent Thread.
2. This thread.
3. The JL thread where half this board will be wanting him sacked and are having a sh**fight with the other half of the board that are making as many BS excuses as possible to defend him.

You can’t take too much from Pre Season but ** me that was poor. I can live with the forward being a bit sh but the midfield was close to full strength and I’m not sure backline improvements are going to make much difference.
 
Horrendous stuff tonight to be honest.
Just so concerning.

I’ll write Damian Barrett’s piece on freo a week early now in his next sliding doors column:

IF Brandon Walker and Corey Wagner are not in the Dockers best 22 for round 1 against Brisbane to add some desperately needed speed and dare…

THEN coach Justin Longmuir better start looking for a new job very quickly because he won’t last 5 games serving up that rubbish
 
If you watched the game you’d say this:

  1. Handball into traffic making it hard to escape congestion.
  2. In the backline, mark the ball, then do anything you can to slow ball movement down. Never, ever, run the ball, take a risk, kick the ball on a sharp angle to open up play…Port might get the ball back…instead we can give them the ball back later and let them run the length of the field.
  3. From kick outs, just kick to the one spot on the left wing/flank so Port know where to go.
  4. When kicking the ball past the halfway line kick straight to the two key backs after playing slow all the way up the field. (See plan for McGovern and Barrass filed under “hey this worked so good in the past, lets do it some more!”
In short do everything possible to give the ball back to the opposition and give us no chance of scoring in any free and flowing way
 
Horrendous stuff tonight to be honest.
Just so concerning.

I’ll write Damian Barrett’s piece on freo a week early now in his next sliding doors column:

IF Brandon Walker and Corey Wagner are not in the Dockers best 22 for round 1 against Brisbane to add some desperately needed speed and dare…

THEN coach Justin Longmuir better start looking for a new job very quickly because he won’t last 5 games serving up that rubbish
My biggest fear is Dockers going 0-6 this season.

The 1st 3 games are not easy.

If we can play as well as rounds 3-8 in 2022, we will have a solid season or at worst be competitive.
 
My biggest fear is Dockers going 0-6 this season.

The 1st 3 games are not easy.

If we can play as well as rounds 3-8 in 2022, we will have a solid season or at worst be competitive.

Might need to get absolutely smashed by Brisbane in round one to realise the slow risk free game plan won’t work. A poor loss in round two of 2022 was what made us make some changes and it turned the season around massively.

I fear if we lose round two then it’s going to be a very very long year.
 
Might need to get absolutely smashed by Brisbane in round one to realise the slow risk free game plan won’t work. A poor loss in round two of 2022 was what made us make some changes and it turned the season around massively.

I fear if we lose round two then it’s going to be a very very long year.

Yep...

after round 6 our next home games after the eagles are dogs, swans and collingwood. Dogs would be the most likely to get a win out of those 3.

Its weird because there has been various seasons where a nasty round 2 loss gave us the kick up the bum we needed to lift up for next week.

I remember round 2 in 2017 where Freo had that 89 point loss vs port in Adelaide oval.

Ross Lyon had no choice but to boot out the old dudes and bring some kids in. 6 days later we beat the dogs by 16 points.

Round 2 in 2022, we had that bad loss to the saints at home by 10 points in Perth. 7 days later we won the derby 47-102.
 
What I don’t understand that we don’t have 3 or 4 set ups from kick outs and the same forward set on centre bounces.

JLo got to go.

Worst thing is JL doesn’t even seem to recognise it’s a problem (and it’s not just kick outs it’s defensive 50 rebounds in general). He lists all these other issues which tbh are valid but completely ignores this.

There was one point yesterday where the commentators pointed out that we’d had 3 inside fifties from 30+ rebound fifties. That’s an absolute disgrace.

I’m not sure I can remember conceding a goal because of a genuinely poor kicking error either so. It’s not like it’s just skills based - in fact I don’t think it’s even 10% bad skills. It’s lack of confidence and a game plan issue.

I think we’re trying to give ourselves time to set up our own structures tbh but it’s also allowing the opposition to do the same. It means we’re in a better spot defensively if it comes back in but eventually the dam wall is going to break if you’re just defending.
 
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