Sugar Withdrawal.

[Docker Clint]

So is it right? Have I been starving myself (literally) fat?

Yes.

Can I really eat myself thin?

Yes

Or will I hit a limit whereby I need to alter my (healthy) diet?

No. It may plateau a bit, perhaps not. Never starve yourself of energy and more importantly never starve yourself of nutrients.

 

[dmc333]

I found it amazing the things that contain sugar that you really don't realise, thing like Corn Syrup can be found in all sorts of food products.

Reason being, it's subsidised to buggery in the US.

 

[sherrin_footy]

A question for you then sherrin (or whomever would like to help). Sorry it's a story....

I'm 183cm, now 130kg....nearly 30. The highest I reached (when I gave up on doctors) was 143kg. Always been heavy, even when elite fitness (<6% body fat) I was 92kg.

I live a mostly sedentary lifestyle, mostly due to osteo-arthritis, and some other medical issues. For 2-3 years the treatment involved courses of a cortisone-based medication which resulted in rapid weight gain (3-5kg the first week of treatment, 2kg per week thereafter). At the completion of a course I 'crashed' and was almost unable to move, gradually recovering to the point where I could get around during the day, just nothing strenuous or long period of time.

.....

I've been keeping a diary of my food intake for the last 4 months or so now. For two months, I maintained my 'diet' - basically eating as little as possible and surviving on water. Fruit, Vegetables, Meat, Rice/Pasta. Certainly healthier products than anyone else I know. I was averaging around 5000 kilojoules a day.

My weight stayed almost constant...I dropped a kilo or two along the way.

After a month, I went to see a dietician, who amongst other things found dangerously high levels of water in my blood (her comparison was steroid abusers and chemotherapy patients IIRC) I reduced my water intake - dropping from approximately 4L a day, to about 1L. I dropped 6kg the first week, and 2kg each the next three weeks.

Then for two weeks it stagnated, then after a fight (almost literally) with my doctor over the accuracy of my diary, I decided to prove a point, I'd eat as much as he believed I "had to" to maintain a weight of 130kg (14000 kilojoules).

To date I haven't got close (apart from Xmas day) - but my weight is steadily dropping about 2kg a week.

===============
One answer was my body was basically starving itself, and converting any sustenance it could into fat (hence the huge water retention). Now I'm eating normally (HUGE) amounts of food, it's no longer holding onto everything, and is releasing some for energy consumption (or something).

So is it right? Have I been starving myself (literally) fat? Can I really eat myself thin? Or will I hit a limit whereby I need to alter my (healthy) diet?

Interesting post, clearly you come from an interesting background. You must have been a beast at 6% bf whilst 92kg at about 1.8m. That's actually my next long term goal, i'm 1.82m and id love to be 90kg at 10% bf.

Basically, yeah i believe you were starving yourself fat. It's a pretty hard concept to grab.

When i ever aim to lower my bodyfat, i always start calories a bit higher than what's expected (but not high enough that im gaining ofcourse). This is because our bodies aren't simple machines that follow the rules strictly. Then i know i'll always be one step ahead of my body, having an extra trick by then lowering calories by another 200, or exercising and burning off that extra 200 calories each day (either way, creates a bigger deficit in calories by 200).


at 5000 kilojoules a day, thats 1250 calories. That's ridiculously low for someone at your weight. Your body has lost weight initially (as seen by your results) and then it would have plateaued, as also seen by your results. You are eating so dangerously low, your body is thinking that it must hold onto each bit of fat you have. Thus your weight has stagnated, as your body has gone into this dire state to save everything it has, because it's supplies are running so low. Your body saves fat for the emergency situations.. for example (yes a bit drastic, but it gets my point across) if you are stuck in the desert/island with no food, your body can live longer if you have a greater amount of stored fat. Obviously the drawback, as humans is it doesn't look quite appealing and it has other negative health effects.


So, what do i recommend from now?

I think you should 'reset' your body so to speak. I think you should go ahead, have two - three weeks eating at about 3500 calories, possibly even a bit more. I think this will have physiological benefits, such as providing your body with more energy etc. Note, at your height and weight, 3000 calories isn't anything MAJORLY excessive. I think it will also have major pyschological benefits for you. I couldn't imagine eating off 1250 calories for so long. So eat more, and freshen yourself a bit mentally. Before you start this time period, weigh yourself for three morning straight on an empty stomach and get an average of what you weighed in the beginning. Then at the end, do the same. You might gain a little bit of weight, but that's fine. Think of it as, gaining a little bit now, to lose a lot in the long run, instead of stagnating for the long run.

From then,
i think you eat 2700 calories and track your weight for a week. If it doesn't drop (we are aiming for approximately half a kilo a week, but you should see more in the first few weeks) at all, then we lower the calories by 200. Then we may see your weight dropping by .5kg a week. Once your body adjusts to this level of food, then we create a bigger deficit by either adding cardio or further dropping the calories. It forces your body to burn fat for fuel.


I'm a member of a fitness forum, and someone there has created this post which i will link you too. It's a bit of a read, however it covers MOST of the basics for fat loss. You can read it here : http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121831491

What macro's were your 1250 calories? by this, i mean what percentage of your total calories was coming from carbs, protein, and fat?

I hope you didn't have incredibly low fat, as it's essential for the body. Here is a good article on following a low fat diet.
http://www.anthonycolpo.com/low_fat_diet_dangerous.html

With your condition, you said you find it hard to exercise. Have you tried swimming? It's pretty easy on the joints.

I think i have covered most things. If i remember anything else, i'll make sure to post it/edit this post.

 

[Jafa]

Well for the record removing all the crap and having the withdrawals have been worth it

6 kgs in 4 weeks so far.

Well done. Feels great doesn't it.

I have dumped a load of shit from my diet in recent times and have been doing a strength orientated weights routine (as opposed to bodybuilding). The bodyfat is just starting to melt away and I am eating alot more than I once did.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I don't know why (probably because you're in the main agreeing with me - but that post made more sense than 2 years of my gp, and 6 months with a dietician. I won't quote it, but some points/answers:

Beast - I was working manual labour whilst at school, playing sports 4 nights a week and both weekends. I was eating massive quantities of (mostly good) food, but burning it off. I was also 17 which helps.

There's no way I can hit 3500 calories. I'm lucky to hit 3000 with drinking coke instead of water, takeaways, etc. I can eat 2000 pretty easy, and 2500 if I drink something other than water.

I was about 75% carbs, 15% fat, 15% protein. I'm now closer to 60/20/20.

I'm a woeful swimmer, but do what I can. Just one lap is enough to make me tired, and about 6 is all I can do.

 

[Bombers_Forever]

I did the same thing when I got braces - I know most people keep eating what they previously did but I decided I didn't want stains on my teeth.

It was tough, but you get used to it. One big help was Extra - that was obviously good for my teeth but it tasted so much like sugar. I think if you can pick those sort of foods, that certainly helps. If you remove everything sweet (and I mean everything), that is when you won't cope.

 

[Black Flag]

This is a great vid on the dangers of sugar.... very long, but after you watch it, you should be pretty well informed.

[YOUTUBE]dBnniua6-oM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Cap]

Could you please expand on what you removed?

Just for my own interest.

Thanks

Well for starters I don't use any sauces on my meals so your pasta sauces and the like. Reduction in carbs so only 2 pieces of bread a day (or its equivalent), reduction in meat to 150g a day and utilising alot more fish. Other things which I have reduction consumption in Tomatoes, Hot Chips,Beer and any empty carbs like white bread.

 

[Cap]

Well done. Feels great doesn't it.

I have dumped a load of shit from my diet in recent times and have been doing a strength orientated weights routine (as opposed to bodybuilding). The bodyfat is just starting to melt away and I am eating alot more than I once did.

cheers and it does surprisingly.

I'm currently going to the gym about 3 times a week doing cardo for about 40mins

I don't have time at the moment to get into a routine hence the diet. but in 3 or 4 months time i'm going to look into a weights program hence the desire to start slim.

 

[rocker_oz33]

l have reduced my sugar intake in the last 6 months or so l used to drink alot of soft drink eat some cakes (snot blocks) and l probably ate few to many carbs.now l halved amount of soft drink and only drink low sugar ones and drink more water.l don't eat many cakes even thou l like snot blocks and added more vegies and noddles to my diet.And got my metabolism back in to line my doing cardio for 30 mins to a hour a day for months and still do 3 days of some kind cardio.l have only lost about 8 kg in that time but am only a little bloke but l feel so much better.but every now and then l feel little flat and need a sugar fix.

 

[sherrin_footy]

I don't know why (probably because you're in the main agreeing with me - but that post made more sense than 2 years of my gp, and 6 months with a dietician. I won't quote it, but some points/answers:

Beast - I was working manual labour whilst at school, playing sports 4 nights a week and both weekends. I was eating massive quantities of (mostly good) food, but burning it off. I was also 17 which helps.

There's no way I can hit 3500 calories. I'm lucky to hit 3000 with drinking coke instead of water, takeaways, etc. I can eat 2000 pretty easy, and 2500 if I drink something other than water.

I was about 75% carbs, 15% fat, 15% protein. I'm now closer to 60/20/20.

I'm a woeful swimmer, but do what I can. Just one lap is enough to make me tired, and about 6 is all I can do.

No way you can hit that many calories because you simply can't eat that much? I always hear people say that, and it always blows my mind. Im trying to gain weight and i have to restrict myself to about 2700 calories, and im usually still pretty hungry. I gain weight very easily, and i can easily gain a kilo a week eating only 2700 calories. On the two weeks off, i reckon you should enjoy yourself, eat your favourite take out, have a few beers, have a meat pie or whatever, you should get my point.

I would probably alter your 60/20/20 ratio a bit too. I'd probably make it more of a 40/40/20..or possibly a 35/45/20.
If you're not the greatest swimmer, you could always find a pool that's about up to your arm pits, or a bit lower and run laps in a pool at a high intensity. It's a lot harder than it sounds.

This is a great vid on the dangers of sugar.... very long, but after you watch it, you should be pretty well informed.

[youtube]dBnniua6-oM[/youtube]

I've watched a fair bit of that video before..until someone pointed out the flaws of it. Also had scientific research to back it up. I'll see if i can find that now.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Update: It's been nearly a month, so thought I'd pop back in.

I'm down to 128kg, having been as low as 125. The weight has plateud in the last few weeks. My eating has picked up to about 2200 a day now, higher if I have a soft-drink. I've got my ratios (C/P/F) to 50/30/20, and have just found a low-carb energy drink (I know, but it's better than coffee/coke and wakes me up) which should drop it to about 45/33/22.

I feel so much better though. I'm walking 3-4k a day (haven't done that for 10 years, since the second knee op) and whilst still sedentary otherwise, have the energy (and lack of pain) to do more 'normal' things.

Despite not losing much weight (15kg in total), I've now dropped 4 shirt sizes and 3 pant sizes since I started - to the point the clothes I'm wearing are 'designed' for someone my size.

No real point to the post, just felt like sharing.

 

[Macca19]

Not losing much weight? 15kg is heaps.

Good work

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

well, most of the weight came off in the first few weeks (6kg of water in week 1, 3x2kg....then only another 3kg in 3 months).

I'm getting noticeably smaller, but the scales aren't changing. Don't really mind, I feel 1000% better and can do much more...the weight will (hopefully) come down eventually.

 

[nicky]

Sugar? What's that?(diabetic here)

Have you heard about that guy who runs a program in arizona which cures people of diabetes? (type 1 and type 2)

Anyway, I've found an alternative to sugar called xylitol. Which sounds like a chemical but it's 100% natural and it's like the mirror image to sugar, in that, it doesn't require insulin to metabolise, it's good for your teeth and contains 5% of the carbs sugar has. You can get it from any health food store.

 

[nicky]

well, most of the weight came off in the first few weeks (6kg of water in week 1, 3x2kg....then only another 3kg in 3 months).

I'm getting noticeably smaller, but the scales aren't changing. Don't really mind, I feel 1000% better and can do much more...the weight will (hopefully) come down eventually.

I HIGHLY recommend acupuncture for weight loss. Not only will you lose weight but you will find you stop craving the wrong things, you will feel the best you've felt in your life. Your organs will begin to work in harmony along with your emotions.

*just make sure the doctor is chinese

 

[BomberGal]

I HIGHLY recommend acupuncture for weight loss. Not only will you lose weight but you will find you stop craving the wrong things, you will feel the best you've felt in your life. Your organs will begin to work in harmony along with your emotions.

*just make sure the doctor is chinese

*make sure you eat properly and exercise and you'll probably lose weight anyway

BTW I actually can't tell if the post above the one I quoted is a troll. When people say something is "not a chemical!!" it usually sets off the alarm bells...

 

[nicky]

*make sure you eat properly and exercise and you'll probably lose weight anyway

Of course bombergal, i've been doing that for years. I'm just sharing with simon nesbit the wonders of chinese medicine.

 

[BomberGal]

Update: It's been nearly a month, so thought I'd pop back in.

I'm down to 128kg, having been as low as 125. The weight has plateud in the last few weeks. My eating has picked up to about 2200 a day now, higher if I have a soft-drink. I've got my ratios (C/P/F) to 50/30/20, and have just found a low-carb energy drink (I know, but it's better than coffee/coke and wakes me up) which should drop it to about 45/33/22.

I feel so much better though. I'm walking 3-4k a day (haven't done that for 10 years, since the second knee op) and whilst still sedentary otherwise, have the energy (and lack of pain) to do more 'normal' things.

Despite not losing much weight (15kg in total), I've now dropped 4 shirt sizes and 3 pant sizes since I started - to the point the clothes I'm wearing are 'designed' for someone my size.

No real point to the post, just felt like sharing.

Hey, 15kg is a great start.

Just a pointer, I know this thread is about sugar withdrawal, but do you really need that soft drink? If you must drink anything, at least make it a diet one. Yes I know what people say about it not helping you lose weight, but you know what, I've drunk a lot (actually, far too much) of diet soft drinks and have managed to lose about 30kg. Although I never made the switch, I've been drinking diet soft drinks for about ten years now anyway. But it's all about overall diet.

I got quite sick last year and had to cut down dramatically on Coke Zero anyway, it made me very sad

 

[nicky]

BTW I actually can't tell if the post above the one I quoted is a troll. When people say something is "not a chemical!!" it usually sets off the alarm bells...

are you talking about my post regarding xylitol?

if so that was definitely NOT a troll, it was discovered by the finnish in WW2 because they had a sugar shortage. It comes from a tree, maybe birch, i can't remember, but it's natural.

 

[BomberGal]

are you talking about my post regarding xylitol?

if so that was definitely NOT a troll, it was discovered by the finnish in WW2 because they had a sugar shortage. It comes from a tree, maybe birch, i can't remember, but it's natural.

No no. I looked up xylitol, that's fine. The statement 'it's not a chemical' really irks me. Everything is a chemical, and this distinction between natural and 'not natural' is crap.

 

[nicky]

No no. I looked up xylitol, that's fine. The statement 'it's not a chemical' really irks me. Everything is a chemical, and this distinction between natural and 'not natural' is crap.

Non scientists (me) classify things found from a tree natural and will distinguish them as non chemicals compared to things like artificial sweeteners.

 

[BomberGal]

Non scientists (me) classify things found from a tree natural and will distinguish them as non chemicals compared to things like artificial sweeteners.

Sure, but your body doesn't distinguish them that way, which is where it's important. And when I hear the statement "it's not a chemical", like I said, it sets off alarm bells that some pseudoscience is probably about to follow...!

I don't see the point in the distinction other than to make something sound better for you than it necessarily is, to sell the product. 'Natural' is not an advantage.

 

[nicky]

Sure, but your body doesn't distinguish them that way, which is where it's important. And when I hear the statement "it's not a chemical", like I said, it sets off alarm bells that some pseudoscience is probably about to follow...!

I don't see the point in the distinction other than to make something sound better for you than it necessarily is, to sell the product. 'Natural' is not an advantage.

Wouldn't "natural" wholefoods be better for you than foods made in a laboratory?

 

[BomberGal]

Wouldn't "natural" wholefoods be better for you than foods made in a laboratory?

Why?

There's no reasoning for this.