Surely we can teach people to read

[Kwality]

How do kids progress at school if they cant read?

.... about 50,000 students Australia-wide began secondary school in 2019 with bare minimum reading skills, if any.

..... total government spending on schools increased from $36.4bn in 2007-08 to $65.58bn in 2018-19

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

Secondary students’ achievement in writing is now below the 2011 national average, according to analysis of NAPLAN trends, with boys’ performance trailing two years behind that of girls when they reach Year 9.

By that stage, more than one-in-five students do not meet the national minimum standard, posing a significant risk for their final years of formal education.

The demise has prompted a national think tank to call for the introduction of an annual English proficiency test for all students at each year level. Tougher entry requirements for university teacher training courses have also been recommended in a bid to ensure candidates’ own literacy skills are up to standard.

“Australian students’ declining achievement in NAPLAN, as well as in international test regimes such as the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) and Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (PIRLS), is of concern to parents, employer groups and tertiary institutions who question the preparedness of many school leavers for adult life and the workforce,” they write.

“Initial teacher education programs have largely dropped the ball on writing instruction, at least in terms of ensuring that all graduating teachers demonstrate sophisticated control of the rules and conventions of English. It is possible that the loss of teacher expertise in English language usage may be insurmountable.”

The report, which comes as ACARA evaluates feedback to its recently released draft curriculum before a final version is presented to education ministers later this year, is likely to compound existing concerns about the nation’s falling education standards.

“It is well past time for a forensic investigation into why they have to do this and who is responsible for the demonstrable decline in Australian literacy standards and practices.”

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[kickazz]

I wonder how much of this is attributable to the growing reluctance to have low IQ children attend special schools. Many these days are going to mainstream schools and really struggle, they just don't get it

 

[Kwality]

I wonder how much of this is attributable to the growing reluctance to have low IQ children attend special schools. Many these days are going to mainstream schools and really struggle, they just don't get it

Contributing but its deeper than that. Kids being promoted when those responsible must be aware of what they are doing. Its being condoned.

 

[Kwality]

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

'....the just released Centre for Independent Studies paper Writing Matters: Reversing a Legacy of Policy Failure in Australian Education notes, to understand the parlous state of literacy and writing skills one needs to return to the heady days of the late 1960s and early ’70s when English teaching underwent a dramatic and far-reaching revolution.'

It was a revolution, Black Paper 1975: The Fight for Education argued, that wreaked “havoc with little or no opposition”, when more formal approaches to teaching English – including grammar, spelling, syntax, clear thinking and writing a succinct, legible and properly structured essay – disappeared.

Such was the power of the new orthodoxy that The Literacy Challenge, the report of a 1992 federal parliamentary inquiry, concluded: “The current approach to literacy learning in Australian schools focuses on the whole language or natural learning approach.”


This is thinking that delivered our current problems:
'The sad reality is the demise of English has happened under Labor and Liberal governments, state and federal, and the latest iteration of the Australian national curriculum proves nothing has changed. Dracula is still in charge of the blood bank and, until politicians act decisively and sideline those responsible for condemning generations of students to illiteracy, nothing will improve.'

 

[Suspense]

Such was the power of the new orthodoxy that The Literacy Challenge, the report of a 1992 federal parliamentary inquiry, concluded: “The current approach to literacy learning in Australian schools focuses on the whole language or natural learning approach.”

I'm not a literacy teacher - but from what I know - I think 'whole of language' literacy has a some good points about how we use language - but swung too far away from phonics for a good while. From what I understand, too many kids just didn't have the basics of reading down before the texts started to become more challenging.

Things have swung back the other way in recent years with evidence-based phonics checks, in early primary, now being a national priority.

Anecdotally, in secondary school, I've found that a lot of kids just hate reading - particularly in low SES areas. Either they weren't taught how to read from a very young age, or they were in a primary school that didn't teach reading skills very well (some Primary schools are glorified day-care centres). By the time they get to Secondary school, remedial literacy programs are challenging as they often need to be individualised ($$$) - and the kids are still expected to read and understand texts that are above their level in their mainstream classes.

I also think that reading has a lot to compete with in today's world. When I was in Primary School, the internet was the sole domain of university greybeards, TV was crap, there were like 3 good video games a year and they could be completed within an hour - reading was, by default, one of the best forms of entertainment available (it still is, it just doesn't have the same instant-gratification dopamine hit of Netflix, social media, video games etc.).

 

[Kwality]

reading has a lot to compete with in today's world.

Its one of those skills that allow an individual to improve their own knowledge, all you need is an inquiring mind.

With podcasts becoming increasingly popularity, the written word seems to being underestimated as a primary building block of education of our kids.

I've employed people who are limited by their inability to read & write, or with numbers. Often it is well hidden.

Our educators should be judged by those without the most basic skills from schooling.

 

[Jack Richards]

I wonder how much of this is attributable to the growing reluctance to have low IQ children attend special schools. Many these days are going to mainstream schools and really struggle, they just don't get it

A little, but not a lot. There are many contributing factors.

Lack of funding for kids with additional needs is a biggie. As a teacher, it is almost impossible to get funding for kids with behavioural issues or needs such as ADHD and if you are lucky, you might get say 5-10hrs. To go to a special need school, you need to have an IQ of 70 or below.

Some of the parents of kids with needs, might also be intellectually disabled themselves.

To get back onto the point of reading. Yes we can teach kids to read. However there is a miriad of factors that contribute to an effective classroom:
- Targeted Feedback
- Clear learning intentions
- Worked examples and explicit instruction.

But there are just as many factors that hinder seeing this result:
- absenteeism
- Cultural attitudes
- Class sizes.

Hattie identifies that class size shouldn't affect results and has very little impact on effective results. But if you have a class of 26, it is very hard to give targeted feedback to students in a timely manner in a 60minute session where you have to model the focus of the lesson, show an example, doing reading groups and gain feedback off students. I generally aim for 10-15minutes of explicit instruction, 30-35 minutes of individual work and 10minutes conclusion where we discuss what we learnt and how we went.

Cultural attitudes is a big one. Yes we can teach how to read, but if its not encouraged at home and the skills aren't being consolidated, then how do we expect student growth? I would be lucky to have 6 students read 5 or more nights a week. The excuse from parents of "We are busy and dont have time, its up to them to do it" doesn't cut the mustard. Also the mentality of schools shouldnt be giving homework in primary school is what causes this learnt attitude that goes for generations and then we have adults who grow up illiterate and cant and dont want to help their kids because they didn't have the parenting who put the focus in when kids are young and instead those kids just sit on their phone, video games and socialise rather than spend time reading books.

In many countries that have great academic growth, they have generations of respect and attitudes to education. A lot of asian countries put emphasis on education as they believe the younger kids roles is to look after the elders when they are adults so they need to have a good job.

Lastly, the english language is hard to master with different digraphs, trigraphs etc. Letters have multiple sounds can also make it hard to decode texts.

 

[Kwality]

A little, but not a lot. There are many contributing factors.

Lack of funding for kids with additional needs is a biggie. As a teacher, it is almost impossible to get funding for kids with behavioural issues or needs such as ADHD and if you are lucky, you might get say 5-10hrs. To go to a special need school, you need to have an IQ of 70 or below.

Some of the parents of kids with needs, might also be intellectually disabled themselves.

To get back onto the point of reading. Yes we can teach kids to read. However there is a miriad of factors that contribute to an effective classroom:
- Targeted Feedback
- Clear learning intentions
- Worked examples and explicit instruction.

But there are just as many factors that hinder seeing this result:
- absenteeism
- Cultural attitudes
- Class sizes.

Hattie identifies that class size shouldn't affect results and has very little impact on effective results. But if you have a class of 26, it is very hard to give targeted feedback to students in a timely manner in a 60minute session where you have to model the focus of the lesson, show an example, doing reading groups and gain feedback off students. I generally aim for 10-15minutes of explicit instruction, 30-35 minutes of individual work and 10minutes conclusion where we discuss what we learnt and how we went.

Cultural attitudes is a big one. Yes we can teach how to read, but if its not encouraged at home and the skills aren't being consolidated, then how do we expect student growth? I would be lucky to have 6 students read 5 or more nights a week. The excuse from parents of "We are busy and dont have time, its up to them to do it" doesn't cut the mustard. Also the mentality of schools shouldnt be giving homework in primary school is what causes this learnt attitude that goes for generations and then we have adults who grow up illiterate and cant and dont want to help their kids because they didn't have the parenting who put the focus in when kids are young and instead those kids just sit on their phone, video games and socialise rather than spend time reading books.

In many countries that have great academic growth, they have generations of respect and attitudes to education. A lot of asian countries put emphasis on education as they believe the younger kids roles is to look after the elders when they are adults so they need to have a good job.

Lastly, the english language is hard to master with different digraphs, trigraphs etc. Letters have multiple sounds can also make it hard to decode texts.

At what point does the education system accept that a kid cannot read, write or not add up ?
What action is taken?

 

[Jack Richards]

At what point does the education system accept that a kid cannot read, write or not add up ?
What action is taken?

The education system doesn't accept that kids can't read, write and do maths. I dont accept that either. All students can learn, just at different rates and different styles.

In the mainstream setting, They will say as teachers we need to make reasonable adjustments which range from things such as additional focus group intervention all the way up to a modified weekly timetable and activities.

The VCAA have done well to develop a pre foundation curriculum for Victorian Students (Levels A-D) for those who aren't at a prep/foundation level which a lot of special school are working at.

As a teacher, I develop Individual Learning Plans for my students who are behind or have a disability (and as such funding for an aide) and hold Student Support Group meetings (if and when parents show up). Ive also taught grade 4 and had to make velcro activities such as one to 10 match and letters of the alphabet for a student working at kinder/foundation level.

Even special schools have it a lot harder and still trying to teach reading, writing and maths.

 

[Kwality]

The education system doesn't accept that kids can't read, write and do maths. I dont accept that either. All students can learn, just at different rates and different styles.

In the mainstream setting, They will say as teachers we need to make reasonable adjustments which range from things such as additional focus group intervention all the way up to a modified weekly timetable and activities.

The VCAA have done well to develop a pre foundation curriculum for Victorian Students (Levels A-D) for those who aren't at a prep/foundation level which a lot of special school are working at.

As a teacher, I develop Individual Learning Plans for my students who are behind or have a disability (and as such funding for an aide) and hold Student Support Group meetings (if and when parents show up). Ive also taught grade 4 and had to make velcro activities such as one to 10 match and letters of the alphabet for a student working at kinder/foundation level.

Even special schools have it a lot harder and still trying to teach reading, writing and maths.

I've employed people that werent able to read, could not write legibly & couldnt add up. They had adapted to hide their problems.

 

[Jack Richards]

I've employed people that werent able to read, could not write legibly & couldnt add up. They had adapted to hide their problems.

Plenty of fantastic intellectually disabled kids who just need a fair go and job chance. Our school captain last year was desperately trying to get an apprenticeship as a plumber but no one was prepared to offer him a go as he couldn't drive.

 

[Kwality]

Plenty of fantastic intellectually disabled kids who just need a fair go and job chance. Our school captain last year was desperately trying to get an apprenticeship as a plumber but no one was prepared to offer him a go as he couldn't drive.

The majority of the guys I employed were truck drivers & I discovered their limitations when looking to move them into operational roles.

 

[Kwality]

Plenty of fantastic intellectually disabled kids who just need a fair go and job chance. Our school captain last year was desperately trying to get an apprenticeship as a plumber but no one was prepared to offer him a go as he couldn't drive.

Not being able to drive a manual puts you at a disadvantage, unnecessarily so.

 

[Kram]

Plenty of fantastic intellectually disabled kids who just need a fair go and job chance. Our school captain last year was desperately trying to get an apprenticeship as a plumber but no one was prepared to offer him a go as he couldn't drive.

Well that's hardly surprising when it's pretty much impossible to do the plumbing trade without one.

Not being able to drive a manual puts you at a disadvantage, unnecessarily so.

Aren't most work vehicles still manual?

 

[Kwality]

Well that's hardly surprising when it's pretty much impossible to to do the plumbing trade without one.

Aren't most work vehicles still manual?

Only need one for whether you can drive a manual to be a decision maker.

 

[Kwality]

Good to see the Minister cares, sadly the States appear to have gone missing.

'Education Minister Alan Tudge says the board of the country’s schooling authority must substantially rewrite its draft national curriculum, warning he will not endorse the proposed document amid concern student outcomes would be harmed.

Mr Tudge urged the board to seriously consider recent feedback from education experts, who have flagged concerns that
the proposed changes amounted to a weakening of learning standards.'

Some of these groups, such as Australia’s peak mathematics association, believe that the current draft will take Australian kids backwards,” he wrote. “If the current draft is simply tweaked, it will not be supported. It needs fundamental changes.”

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Kwality]

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

poor-literacy-standards-targeted/news-story/03aadb8322a835ec8a009088ec26ffd6

Writing on the wall as poor literacy standards targeted

“I could read three or four-letter words, but not much else,” he says. “I’d get to a six or seven-letter word and just give up.”

Illiteracy has plagued .... for most of his life. At school, he’d often struggle to concentrate and would “play up a lot” as a result.

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 47 per cent of Tasmania’s adult males and 53 per cent of females are considered “functionally illiterate”, meaning they struggle with the basic skills needed to read a form or brochure or understand a newspaper article.'



WE have a long way to go ....

 

[Kwality]

The education system doesn't accept that kids can't read, write and do maths. I dont accept that either. All students can learn, just at different rates and different styles.

In the mainstream setting, They will say as teachers we need to make reasonable adjustments which range from things such as additional focus group intervention all the way up to a modified weekly timetable and activities.

The VCAA have done well to develop a pre foundation curriculum for Victorian Students (Levels A-D) for those who aren't at a prep/foundation level which a lot of special school are working at.

As a teacher, I develop Individual Learning Plans for my students who are behind or have a disability (and as such funding for an aide) and hold Student Support Group meetings (if and when parents show up). Ive also taught grade 4 and had to make velcro activities such as one to 10 match and letters of the alphabet for a student working at kinder/foundation level.

Even special schools have it a lot harder and still trying to teach reading, writing and maths.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-03/

eddie-betts-football-return-ntfl-team-debut-palmerston-magpies/100588462

"I couldn't read or write when I got drafted [to the AFL] and it was really tough."

"I want kids to go to school, I want kids to graduate and I want kids to learn to read and write."

Betts said feats on the field would be secondary to being able to embark on something as important as improving education in remote communities.

"Footy was on the back burner for me," he said.

"I've always wanted to work within communities. I've always wanted to help Aboriginal kids go to school."

 

[Jack Richards]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-03/

eddie-betts-football-return-ntfl-team-debut-palmerston-magpies/100588462

"I couldn't read or write when I got drafted [to the AFL] and it was really tough."

"I want kids to go to school, I want kids to graduate and I want kids to learn to read and write."

Betts said feats on the field would be secondary to being able to embark on something as important as improving education in remote communities.

"Footy was on the back burner for me," he said.

"I've always wanted to work within communities. I've always wanted to help Aboriginal kids go to school."

Think you might need to go back and read my post.

 

[Kwality]

Think you might need to go back and read my post.

Sadly Jack you are part of the problem - you need to own the failure. You pervaricate as many academics do.

Sure its not easy to stop kids falling through the cracks, but thats the failing of those responsible for the likes of Eddie Betts not being able to read or write.

 

[Jack Richards]

Sadly Jack you are part of the problem - you need to own the failure. You pervaricate as many academics do.

Sure its not easy to stop kids falling through the cracks, but thats the failing of those responsible for the likes of Eddie Betts not being able to read or write.

But how is it all the teacher's fault? I also don't act in an evasive way (so cut the fancy talk). I certainly own my failings but in this instance I don't think I failed anything.

Let make it more clear as I dont think I can be any less evasive:

I believe it is a tripod system: each leg of the tripod is needed to hold something up
- The parents/carers
- The teacher
- The child

The teacher is needed to be able to differentiate the program and use student data. But a teacher cannot do it all on their own with 20+ other students with no support from parents and students. As I have said many times, all kids can learn! I believe that! I also act it. I did it.

Parents/carers also need to be on board and support learning at home. Reading each night with a child, support student learning goals and take an active role in student learning. Gone are the days where parents take the teacher's side and work with them e.g "What can we do to support our child at home". Now it's "What are you going to do about it!". The amount of times I get reading logs with only 1 night reading a week is scary and only half the homework books returned each week out of 21 students.

Last leg is the child. No student learns at the same rate. If they did, then they would all be the same academic level at the end of year 12. Some students are just not mentally ready. Also if a student is away a lot, up late at night and not getting enough sleep, it would play a huge impact in academic growth.

They say kids should start school at 6 years old, rather than 5. Yet we see them starting at 5. Some students have additional learning needs that don't get addressed. I know I wasn't mentally ready for year 11 and 12 exams and struggled. I entered uni as a mature age student and sat an exam. Came out with a slightly higher than average general knowledge.

 

[Kwality]

But how is it all the teacher's fault? I also don't act in an evasive way (so cut the fancy talk). I certainly own my failings but in this instance I don't think I failed anything.

Let make it more clear as I dont think I can be any less evasive:

I believe it is a tripod system: each leg of the tripod is needed to hold something up
- The parents/carers
- The teacher
- The child

The teacher is needed to be able to differentiate the program and use student data. But a teacher cannot do it all on their own with 20+ other students with no support from parents and students. As I have said many times, all kids can learn! I believe that! I also act it. I did it.

Parents/carers also need to be on board and support learning at home. Reading each night with a child, support student learning goals and take an active role in student learning. Gone are the days where parents take the teacher's side and work with them e.g "What can we do to support our child at home". Now it's "What are you going to do about it!". The amount of times I get reading logs with only 1 night reading a week is scary and only half the homework books returned each week out of 21 students.

Last leg is the child. No student learns at the same rate. If they did, then they would all be the same academic level at the end of year 12. Some students are just not mentally ready. Also if a student is away a lot, up late at night and not getting enough sleep, it would play a huge impact in academic growth.

They say kids should start school at 6 years old, rather than 5. Yet we see them starting at 5. Some students have additional learning needs that don't get addressed. I know I wasn't mentally ready for year 11 and 12 exams and struggled. I entered uni as a mature age student and sat an exam. Came out with a slightly higher than average general knowledge.

You said:
The education system doesn't accept that kids can't read, write and do maths. I dont accept that either. All students can learn, just at different rates and different styles.

I tell you people are leaving school that cant read & write. These people are not silly.

 

[Jack Richards]

You said:
The education system doesn't accept that kids can't read, write and do maths. I dont accept that either. All students can learn, just at different rates and different styles.

I tell you people are leaving school that cant read & write. These people are not silly.

How is what I said wrong or evasive?

All students can learn. They just learn at different rates and styles.

If we all learnt at the same rate we would all have the same academic scores. Clearly that isn't happening as all students are different hence the 7 main learning styles.

To put the blame solely on teachers is an insult and unfair. When you consider the amount of differentiation, planning, resource making, additional admin (phone calls, meetings, student wellbeing issues) they follow up on day in and day out with only 2-3hrs of time release.

Hence why I said it was a tripod approach

If you or anyone else think they can do better, go get a degree and jump into the profession.

 

[Kram]

There's always been quite a few kids out my way that barely even go to school even from a young age, why the government or general pubic don't seem to care and bother to do anything about it is beyond me.

 

[Kwality]

How is what I said wrong or evasive?

All students can learn. They just learn at different rates and styles.

If we all learnt at the same rate we would all have the same academic scores. Clearly that isn't happening as all students are different hence the 7 main learning styles.

To put the blame solely on teachers is an insult and unfair. When you consider the amount of differentiation, planning, resource making, additional admin (phone calls, meetings, student wellbeing issues) they follow up on day in and day out with only 2-3hrs of time release.

Hence why I said it was a tripod approach

If you or anyone else think they can do better, go get a degree and jump into the profession.

I suggested you prevaricate. Of course its a problem for the profession so I apologise for directing it at to you personally Jack, & good on you for standing up.
I accept that its an oversimplication to point to 'read & write', but they are the building blocks that can be weaponised at any age to help yourself, along with hard work.
No one should get into high school without reading & writing.