Swan vs Judd 2011

[Hodgepodge]

V

Swan is timing his run for the finals whereas Judd was better early. Who will be the better midfielder in 2011?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...pid1=491&tid2=4&pid2=109&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Swan is probably the most underrated player in the game, whilst Judd is a little overrated. I would take Swan in my team everyday of the week and the stats you posted confirms that HP.

Swan has more disposals, marks, goals, more inside 50s, more goals contributed and is a better user of the ball than Judd. Not that football pundits will take notice of that though, because they are largely ignorant and have preconcieved ideas about both players.

 

[Glassjaw]

Judd by so much it isn't even funny.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Swan has more disposals, marks, goals, more inside 50s, more goals contributed and is a better user of the ball than Judd. Not that football pundits will take notice of that though, because they are largely ignorant and have preconcieved ideas about both players.

I think preconceived ideas is the key phrase here. I would like the users to put those aside and have a look at the form of both players.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I think preconceived ideas is the key phrase here. I would like the users to put those aside and have a look at the form of both players.

That would be very nice, but unlikely to happen unfortunately HP. People have made up their mind that last seasons MVP is a plodder, despite him obviously having more impact on games than Chris Judd.

I love both players, but there is no doubt in my mind that Swan has been the better player over the last 3 years.

 

[liam_13]

Swan has more disposals, marks, goals, more inside 50s, more goals contributed and is a better user of the ball than Judd. Not that football pundits will take notice of that though, because they are largely ignorant and have preconcieved ideas about both players.

Yes, because looking at stats clearly makes you more open-minded and able to see past your old ideas then 'football pundits.'

Judd. Has had a few poor games but has dragged Carlton across the line more then Swan has had to, partly because Swan plays in a superior team. But Judds performances versus Sydney, North (4th quarter) and Essendon were all better then Swans games/quarters imo.

Very close, and may have voted to early. Swan has 2 games of H&A left + more then likely more finals then Judd, so with the small gap between them he could overtake Judd.

 

[Monkey King]

Yes, because looking at stats clearly makes you more open-minded and able to see past your old ideas then 'football pundits.'

Judd. Has had a few poor games but has dragged Carlton across the line more then Swan has had to, partly because Swan plays in a superior team. But Judds performances versus Sydney, North (4th quarter) and Essendon were all better then Swans games/quarters imo.

Very close, and may have voted to early. Swan has 2 games of H&A left + more then likely more finals then Judd, so with the small gap between them he could overtake Judd.

Yep. Judd. Swan is underrated by many; almost as much as these two Hawks posters underrate Judd or most things Navy Blue. I've seen the claim Judd doesn't have as much impact due to his disposal, but seriously, Judd's disposal/decision making is chronically underrated on BF. At times it can be just sublime, other times it can be bloody awful. Some people seem to focus only on the awful, such is their bent. Still, Judd's DE% is pretty much the standard for those averaging 14+ CP's a match.

What's seemingly ignored here though, is Judd's impact is just as great, if not greater, inside the pack than outside; where get's more 1st possession, contested ball, clearances, tackles and works harder for teammates than Swan. For a sizable percentage of the time, he either wins the ball it or kills it. Additionally, he has this uncanny ability of doing when his team needs him to most.

Then you throw in his leadership and ability to lift his teammates, which they all speak of. In a team like Carlton, this is an invaluable trait I couldn't see Swan emulating.

 

[DTShowtime]

Dane Swan hurts you on the scoreboard, Judd doesn't.

 

[Kong]

Juddy.

 

[entourage]

Swan is much more damaging with the ball, but Judd GETS you the ball in the first place. Diff players, hard to split-so obviously i go with swan

 

[Monkey King]

Judd also has the ability to attempt to take on a tackler and drop the ball without giving away a free kick (who doesn't these days. More interesting to me is that players are allowed to hold on to Judd during his passage to the ball, as though he actually has possession)

Also has the ability to get clearly beaten by McPhee and elbow pavlich in the head in the game and still manage to poll 3 best and fairest brownlow votes. (That this never even happened shows you're overcome by your emotions, rather than by what actually happened. Juddy had 30 touches, half of them contested. Was given 2 Brownlow votes. Could you please state which other players you think deserved those votes and why? Incidental contact shouldn't have anything to do with Brownlow votes. McPhee played better on Judd than expected.

Judd is the umpires pet. Nothing more

What a pity you're missing out on one of the games players.

Bolded response.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Juddy had 30 touches, half of them contested. Was given 2 Brownlow votes. Could you please state which other players you think deserved those votes and why?

30 disposals with no impact which was why McPhee was given the job next time.

Sandilands had 19 disposals, 1 goal and 49 hitouts, in a winning side. He matched Judd in contested possessions and clearances. Had 1 more tackle and kicked a goal, plus dominated the ruck.

But I don't bother questioning the Brownlow, the votes just don't reliably go to the best players.

 

[Squida25]

Oh look another Judd thread by Hodepodge.

Here's a few more 2011 stats from the AFL site that aren't shown from HP's link.

Clearances per game
Judd - 6.8
Swan - 6.0

Contested Possessions per game
Judd - 14.3
Swan - 12.7

Uncontested Possessions per game
Judd - 12.4
Swan - 18.1

Clangers
Judd - 2.9
Swan - 3.0

Disposal Efficiency
Judd - 67%
Swan - 70%

The choice is yours

 

[Hodgepodge]

Oh look another Judd thread by Hodepodge.

Here's a few more 2011 stats from the AFL site that aren't shown from HP's link.

Clearances per game
Judd - 6.8
Swan - 6.0

Contested Possessions per game
Judd - 14.3
Swan - 12.7

Uncontested Possessions per game
Judd - 12.4
Swan - 18.1

Clangers
Judd - 2.9
Swan - 3.0

Disposal Efficiency
Judd - 67%
Swan - 70%

The choice is yours

Thanks for adding more stats to the comparison, I think the data you have put up is pretty even in every category, except maybe uncontested possession where Swan is clearly ahead.

 

[the distributer]

Both guns, judd was better up until two games ago and has had the better year, swan looks unstoppable ATM though, both clearly top 3 mids in the comp.

 

[Squida25]

Thanks for adding more stats to the comparison, I think the data you have put up is pretty even in every category, except maybe uncontested possession where Swan is clearly ahead.

I heard Judd the dudd can't kick and is a turnover king .

 

[Hodgepodge]

I heard Judd the dudd can't kick and is a turnover king .

You'd expect Swan to have more clangers than just about anybody because he wins so much of the ball.

 

[PP34]

Judd easily stupid thread. Pendles > Swan this year.

 

[the distributer]

You'd expect Swan to have more clangers than just about anybody because he wins so much of the ball.

We also kick long more often, in saying that though judds disposal isn't as bad as some people make out, normally running flat knacker when he kicks with opponants in hot pursuit.

 

[themidlandmaster]

Swan.

Personally, I think Judd's disposal as pretty poor, especially considering how often he handballs it. With a ratio of grater than 1:1, you'd want a better disposal efficiency than 67%

Also, Swan averages a goal and a half a game

 

[The Edukator]

Swan can only dream of emulating Judds leadership and influence without the ball.

Judd

 

[Monkey King]

30 disposals with no impact

Pfft! Rubbish! I was at that game. This is the same mindless generic crap you always trot out. The only blokes individually better than Judd were Barlow and Sandi.

Sandilands had 19 disposals, 1 goal and 49 hitouts, in a winning side. He matched Judd in contested possessions and clearances.

Not a bad call. Could have gone to Sandilands without any argument from me. But this is the first step in a line of thinking. Sandi is a ruckman and it's generally a given that rucks don't poll as well as mids. Additionally, given McPhee was riding Judd's arse Barker-style the whole game, whereas Carlton No.1 ruck went down with injury; it's perfectly reasonable one performance be downgraded a tad while the upgraded.

So where is the inconguancy Fasta was alluding to? There is none. Judd getting two votes was entirely reasonable. I doubt Fasta would have had any clue as to who was more deserving of votes in that game, as highlighted by his 3 votes claim for Judd. Instead he's tried to parrot the Judd myth without putting any thought into it.

 

[Monkey King]

Personally, I think Judd's disposal as pretty poor, especially considering how often he handballs it. With a ratio of grater than 1:1, you'd want a better disposal efficiency than 67%

Eh Ablett has a similar ratio and is lauded for his disposal, despite his DE% representing just one disposal p/game better than Judd. Ablett also has only one less clanger for the season after discounting FA's.

The Judd disposal claim is mostly for those who don't genuinely watch games and instead instead rely on common misconception. I've seen Judd kick goals from the centre square, deliver lace out passes, fire out deft handballs and a range of other sublime disposal. I've also seen him shuffle out handballs to no-one under extreme pressure and fluff kicks under no pressure. People focus on what they want to according to their bent, the OP demonstrates this principle probably better than anybody.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Pfft! Rubbish! I was at that game. This is the same mindless generic crap you always trot out. The only blokes individually better than Judd were Barlow and Sandi.

Had fewer clearances in that game than he did against us in his last game. Got a lot of touches on the stat sheet, but no impact.

Not a bad call. Could have gone to Sandilands without any argument from me. But this is the first step in a line of thinking. Sandi is a ruckman and it's generally a given that rucks don't poll as well as mids.

Players in losing sides generally don't poll as well either.

So where is the inconguancy Fasta was alluding to? There is none. Judd getting two votes was entirely reasonable.

Inconsistency?

The Brownlow is what it is, it rarely goes to the best player in a season.

 

[jdemp]

Maybe you should start a poll with who has more hair, Judd or NicNat, then you can get the result you are after.

And to say Judd doesn't impact the scoreboard is pathetic, 32 goal assists, the most in the comp says otherwise you peasant.