Autopsy Swans v Tigers discuss

[The King!]

Why do you think I give a toss what you will or will not tolerate ? It isn't about you. I wasn't even posting about you.

You implore me to re-watch the game so that I can find more players to criticise. What patronising sh*t. I watched it once and I saw a bunch of guys in red & white giving their utmost who don't deserve to be criticsed by keyboard heroes who have little idea of what they're going through.

Have you played footy at any decent level ? Player are human. Armchair warriors yelling at the telly forget that they have a finite amount of energy. There are only so many contests they can crack into, especially when they're part of an inexperienced side trying to cover that lack of experience by sheer effort. A lot of turnovers, a lot of chasing.

I'm sick of fair weather fans pouring sh*t on players who are giving their all in really difficult circumstances. Stop judging and start supporting.

Have you played footy at a decent level?

 

[caesar88]

Why do you think I give a toss what you will or will not tolerate ? It isn't about you. I wasn't even posting about you.

You implore me to re-watch the game so that I can find more players to criticise. What patronising sh*t. I watched it once and I saw a bunch of guys in red & white giving their utmost who don't deserve to be criticsed by keyboard heroes who have little idea of what they're going through.

Have you played footy at any decent level ? Player are human. Armchair warriors yelling at the telly forget that they have a finite amount of energy. There are only so many contests they can crack into, especially when they're part of an inexperienced side trying to cover that lack of experience by sheer effort. A lot of turnovers, a lot of chasing.

I'm sick of fair weather fans pouring sh*t on players who are giving their all in really difficult circumstances. Stop judging and start supporting.

Nice melt.

For the record if you respond to one of my posts with your own patronising rant, pretty obvious I am going to think you are referring to me.

 

[Kapers]

Why do you think I give a toss what you will or will not tolerate ? It isn't about you. I wasn't even posting about you.

You implore me to re-watch the game so that I can find more players to criticise. What patronising sh*t. I watched it once and I saw a bunch of guys in red & white giving their utmost who don't deserve to be criticsed by keyboard heroes who have little idea of what they're going through.

Have you played footy at any decent level ? Player are human. Armchair warriors yelling at the telly forget that they have a finite amount of energy. There are only so many contests they can crack into, especially when they're part of an inexperienced side trying to cover that lack of experience by sheer effort. A lot of turnovers, a lot of chasing.

I'm sick of fair weather fans pouring sh*t on players who are giving their all in really difficult circumstances. Stop judging and start supporting.

I agree with the sentiment, probably not directed at the right person.

 

[bungee]

I think he's probably at his wits end. He has been dealt the hardest hand of any coach in the AFL this year IMO. Already going in as a young developing team, then undergoing the lockdown and the season resumption, then he's dealt a colossal injury crisis, and then on the morning he finds out his two best players are out for the season, he has to spend his morning doing a presser based on comments an opposition coach made.

I don't blame him for being fired up.

Not excusing yesterday's performance, I do think we went too conservative and that was clearly instructional, but as Horse himself said, there were other factors, like encountering a premiership defence that looked rock solid and gave us nothing. (As well as the work rate which I maintain was not there, which makes it hard to get any kind of attacking play happening.)

Stop the criticising crap. our work rate was there.

We took the reigning premiers with more than 2/3 of their premiership team playing and missing few if any key postion players. They had a powerful forward line, a well organised defence and their 2nd choice ruck is still a genuine ruckman. We had Stevic hand them a goal head start, we lost two of our very best players and finished the game under-manned. We had almost all of our key postion players out. We had an inexperienced medium tall defender as our ruck and we gave away height in almost every key position. We had a short-arse and a rookie making up our forward line so we had to run the ball forward and often chase turnovers back. That takes real effort.

We added two more to the long injury list of top 22 players that we went in with, yet if we take away the goal that Stevic kicked for them we fell short by just a couple of points and could still have pinched the game except for some wayward kicking.

The effort was there. The coaching moves worked. The game plan held. With very few exceptions the players gave their all.

I agree Horse was right to be pissed off. Softdick packed their forward line. Not Horse. If we had Reiwoldt and Lynch we'd have no trouble kicking a big score. Softdick is the one under pressure. He's the one with the premiership window open and a team full of experience and talent. He should be looking at back-to-back premierships. The opportunity beckons but he can't get it up.

Nice melt.

For the record if you respond to one of my posts with your own patronising rant, pretty obvious I am going to think you are referring to me.

For the record. I was responding to your own little melt when you assumed I was referring to you in my original post

 

[bungee]

Have you played footy at a decent level?

Only at uni, but that's nowhere near as tough as senior AFL. Why do you ask ?

 

[caesar88]

Stop the criticising crap. our work rate was there.

We took the reigning premiers with more than 2/3 of their premiership team playing and missing few if any key postion players. They had a powerful forward line, a well organised defence and their 2nd choice ruck is still a genuine ruckman. We had Stevic hand them a goal head start, we lost two of our very best players and finished the game under-manned. We had almost all of our key postion players out. We had an inexperienced medium tall defender as our ruck and we gave away height in almost every key position. We had a short-arse and a rookie making up our forward line so we had to run the ball forward and often chase turnovers back. That takes real effort.

We added two more to the long injury list of top 22 players that we went in with, yet if we take away the goal that Stevic kicked for them we fell short by just a couple of points and could still have pinched the game except for some wayward kicking.

The effort was there. The coaching moves worked. The game plan held. With very few exceptions the players gave their all.

I agree Horse was right to be pissed off. Softdick packed their forward line. Not Horse. If we had Reiwoldt and Lynch we'd have no trouble kicking a big score. Softdick is the one under pressure. He's the one with the premiership window open and a team full of experience and talent. He should be looking at back-to-back premierships. The opportunity beckons but he can't get it up.

For the record. I was responding to your own little melt when you assumed I was referring to you in my original post

We may have to agree to disagree. I didn't think the work rate was there and that's just how I saw it. You don't have to like it.

But very confused how you can say anyone who watched the game on the weekend, or any game over the last few years, and come on here to discuss it, is a fair-weather supporter? Whether any of us have anything good or bad to say, we're all here watching and supporting the boys and wanting the club to succeed aren't we?

 

[bungee]

We may have to agree to disagree. I didn't think the work rate was there and that's just how I saw it. You don't have to like it.

But very confused how you can say anyone who watched the game on the weekend, or any game over the last few years, and come on here to discuss it, is a fair-weather supporter? Whether any of us have anything good or bad to say, we're all here watching and supporting the boys and wanting the club to succeed aren't we?

That's not what I said at all. FFS learn to read

 

[The King!]

Only at uni, but that's nowhere near as tough as senior AFL. Why do you ask ?

just presumed you must have played quite a bit

what position did you play

 

[caesar88]

That's not what I said at all. FFS learn to read

I'm sick of fair weather fans pouring sh*t on players who are giving their all in really difficult circumstances. Stop judging and start supporting.

 

[SeanM]

Sometimes I think it is hard to judge workrate on television.

End of the game in those conditions they would have all been physically exhausted and had heavy legs. So it is harder to do things at 100% intensity or be able to do repeat sprints.

Also with slippery conditions, I think there is a slower approach to making a front on tackle. So there is a greater tendency to corral players.

 

[bungee]

"Very confused how you can say anyone who watched the game on the weekend, or any game over the last few years, and come on here to discuss it, is a fair-weather supporter?"

I didn't write this. You did.

 

[bungee]

Sometimes I think it is hard to judge workrate on television.

End of the game in those conditions they would have all been physically exhausted and had heavy legs. So it is harder to do things at 100% intensity or be able to do repeat sprints.

Also with slippery conditions, I think there is a slower approach to making a front on tackle. So there is a greater tendency to corral players.

Exactly. Two men down in the wet and our lack of key talls meant we more often had to run the ball rather than kicking long to a turnover. On TV it's hard to see how much work is being done off the ball to try to get into space.

 

[caesar88]

Sometimes I think it is hard to judge workrate on television.

End of the game in those conditions they would have all been physically exhausted and had heavy legs. So it is harder to do things at 100% intensity or be able to do repeat sprints.

Also with slippery conditions, I think there is a slower approach to making a front on tackle. So there is a greater tendency to corral players.

Actually Fox make it really easy to judge. They film half the game from the ISS so you can generally get a good look at who is doing what all over the ground.

It's also not just in uncontested situations but in the contests. Ie. who won a hard ball but didn't follow it up with a second or third effort? Who was content to stand by and let a team-mate be put under pressure rather than shepherd? Who gave up on a tackle they could've easily made?

 

[bungee]

just presumed you must have played quite a bit

what position did you play

Fwd pocket or HFF mostly though a few times I played sometimes backed up in the ruck at school. I'm 186 cm (or used to be).

Sorry. Back on topic. That was a low scoring affair but I thought our guys gave it a real crack. Any criticism for lack of team effort simply isn't justified (and just to be clear, we don't always agree but I'm not saying that you're one who's being overly critical).

Look at it the game from the point of view of a young team looking for positives, we kicked twice as many goals as Richmond after quarter time and held them goalless for two quarters. As expected we got smashed in the hitouts but were only slightly down on clearances despite losing Joey early. Big kudos to our young mids who got stuck in.

We laid more tackles (a good measure of intent) and we won more contested ball, important when Richmond pride themselves on beating their man. In terms of putting up a contest our young team more than held their own.

 

[The King!]

Fwd pocket or HFF mostly though a few times I played sometimes backed up in the ruck at school. I'm 186 cm (or used to be).

Sorry. Back on topic. That was a low scoring affair but I thought our guys gave it a real crack. Any criticism for lack of team effort simply isn't justified (and just to be clear, we don't always agree but I'm not saying that you're one who's being overly critical).

Look at it the game from the point of view of a young team looking for positives, we kicked twice as many goals as Richmond after quarter time and held them goalless for two quarters. As expected we got smashed in the hitouts but were only slightly down on clearances despite losing Joey early. Big kudos to our young mids who got stuck in.

We laid more tackles (a good measure of intent) and we won more contested ball, important when Richmond pride themselves on beating their man. In terms of putting up a contest our young team more than held their own.

Same height and sometimes played ruck. Seems crazy in hindsight quite liked it

I think our effort was ok, I think Hardwick was over the top but we were too defensive imo

Just a putrid game all round

Richmond play like millionaires

 

[bungee]

Actually Fox make it really easy to judge. They film half the game from the ISS so you can generally get a good look at who is doing what all over the ground.

It's also not just in uncontested situations but in the contests. Ie. who won a hard ball but didn't follow it up with a second or third effort? Who was content to stand by and let a team-mate be put under pressure rather than shepherd? Who gave up on a tackle they could've easily made?

The coaches have the best view of all. Multiple angles. Live view. Various replays and analysis from assistants. They also know what the player has been instructed to do and can measure that against how well they do it. They know where each player is in their development and they know exactly what each player is capable of. They're all former players who understand the game so much more than any of us can. They can far more critically judge a player's commitment and effort than any fan can, no matter how many viewing angles we have or how many games we watch.

 

[caesar88]

The coaches have the best view of all. Multiple angles. Live view. Various replays and analysis from assistants. They also know what the player has been instructed to do and can measure that against how well they do it. They know where each player is in their development and they know exactly what each player is capable of. They're all former players who understand the game so much more than any of us can. They can far more critically judge a player's commitment and effort than any fan can, no matter how many viewing angles we have or how many games we watch.

We might as well shut this site down then if our opinions are all meaningless when compared to the professionals?

 

[bungee]

Same height and sometimes played ruck. Seems crazy in hindsight quite liked it

I think our effort was ok, I think Hardwick was over the top but we were too defensive imo

Just a putrid game all round

Richmond play like millionaires

What a coincidence. 186cm is nothing at senior level and I never had the bulk.

Swans made a big call playing Fox instead of Aliir but it paid off. Aliir would have struggled one-on-one. Fox won some well deserved coaches' votes. I woud love to see him pull more good games out of his hat as he's a decent size, has a good leap and a bit of pace. I thought our defence were outgunned but overall they got the points. Mills was brilliant. I just wish we could have two of him with one in the midfield. Hayward played his best game for the year, from a low base. Cunningham too. We knew we'd struggle up forward but both teams were woefully inaccurate. 4.10 vs 3.8 is an ugly score line but both had chances. It could just as easily have been 10.4 vs 8.3. Certainly many of ours were gettable. I know Sinclair and Reid aren't your faves but we could really do with a genuine forward/ruck at the moment. They only need to bring the ball to ground and make a contest.

I'd put taylor or gray in for Kennedy this week. Rowbottom is on fire

 

[bungee]

We might as well shut this site down then if our opinions are all meaningless when compared to the professionals?

Just saying, none of us are experts so we should be circumspect in any criticism. Besides, not every post has to be a criticism. You used to be a lot more positive in your posts. What happened to that ?

 

[caesar88]

Just saying, none of us are experts so we should be circumspect in any criticism. Besides, not every post has to be a criticism. You used to be a lot more positive in your posts. What happened to that ?

I like to think I still am. We are 2-4 and 17th on the ladder but I have a lot more faith in this list than many others do. But there's a lot that has me concerned right now as a supporter wanting us to succeed. They're all relatively short-term problems that could be easily improved, but I don't think it hurts to discuss them.

- A lot of guys experienced and inexperienced are horribly out of form.

- Horse is trying to figure out what to do with this team (which I like, but it means mistakes will be made.)

- (So far) it's been yet another failed bunch of recruits from last off-season.

- There hasn't been the kind of consistent, hungry Swans effort we're used to. I really don't think it's a big deal to point this out - I'm sure even the boys would acknowledge plenty of instances over the last few weeks where they could've wanted it more, but we're not privy to the team reviews.

- Injuries have killed us, though this is no one's fault.

What positives have there been?

- Papley's leading the Coleman ??
- Some stand out games from Heeney ??
- Rowbottom ??
- Pick 2 might be ours ??
- More kids might get a chance ??

That's just the reality of this season. If there are positives, I try to celebrate them. If there are negatives, I don't see the point in glossing over them. Unfortunately it's just been the kind of difficult year where really not a lot has gone right.

 

[SeanM]

At the end of last season I was optimistic that we could be a mid table side. Even though we were not getting results. It seemed like our younger players were putting in good performances and improving. But this year quite a few are in poor form. Not sure if that is the inconsistency of youth.

I feel Longmire has tried different things to mixed results. I think initially we tried to move the ball quickly, surge forward and pin the opposition in their half. But against Essendon and Bulldogs we got exposed a lot on the counter attack especially early in the game. Against West Coast we tried to play high tempo and run the ball through the middle. Against Richmond we tried to keep possession more with a slower tempo.

Initially I was against debuting first year players early. But now I am looking forward to seeing a few of the younger players get debuts.

I am still finding the games interesting even when we lose. It is important to find small positives in each match. I am always impressed with players who can still play well and keep trying to the end in a losing team. Like Rowbottom and Mcinerney against West Coast.

 

[bungee]

At the end of last season I was optimistic that we could be a mid table side. Even though we were not getting results. It seemed like our younger players were putting in good performances and improving. But this year quite a few are in poor form. Not sure if that is the inconsistency of youth.

I feel Longmire has tried different things to mixed results. I think initially we tried to move the ball quickly, surge forward and pin the opposition in their half. But against Essendon and Bulldogs we got exposed a lot on the counter attack especially early in the game. Against West Coast we tried to play high tempo and run the ball through the middle. Against Richmond we tried to keep possession more with a slower tempo.

Initially I was against debuting first year players early. But now I am looking forward to seeing a few of the younger players get debuts.

I am still finding the games interesting even when we lose. It is important to find small positives in each match. I am always impressed with players who can still play well and keep trying to the end in a losing team. Like Rowbottom and Mcinerney against West Coast.

Dead right. I think many younger players who thrived with senior players around them are far more exposed, especially this year. I've written about this before. We've had the biggest list overhaul of all teams in the past few years. Young players have been forced to find a way. Guys like Ronke, Dawson, McCartin, Aliir would all thrive in a much more experienced side where they'd have far more support. It's a tough workplace for Swans players.

When you're surrounded by experienced defenders like Nick Smith, Macca, Grundy, Rampe and Richards it's easier to play well as the 6th defender. If you've only got Rampe with any deep experience it's hard. Even a player as talented as Mills can have a bad day. Look at how well Mills played in the state of origin side when he was surrounded by talent. As did Papley. See how much Buddy lifts our forward line.

Aliir is a good example who's struggling a bit, not because he's gone backwards as a player but because he's had to carry a lot more responsibility. Young players across the board are under much more pressure. Look at Hewett, who had a solid start in the midfield playing 24 games in 2016, when Kennedy, Hanners, Jack and Parker took the brunt of the work. These days Hewett has lost much of that support. He's got a weight of expectation on him.

So, like you, I applaud those players who can lift their games in such adversity. I also go a little easier on those who are struggling to adapt.

 

[dosser]

There are some great tweets out there at the moment.
"Isaac Heeney is a huge loss for the swans at the moment but fortunately they've got another 74,999 players to choose from."

And

"Rhyce Shaw has until COB Thursday to submit his game plan and match tactics to Damien Hardwick for approval."

 

[Dubsforsam1]

The other thing to remember is the team/units cant train together which has a far more detrimental impact on younger and more inexperienced teams

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[MarkP]

'Out of line' Dimma apologises to Horse after Mrs Hardwick backlash

Damien Hardwick has said sorry to John Longmire for his post-match comments last week

www.afl.com.au

Whelp we gave him a kick but he had the nuts to ring Horse. Not all would do it and the best thing his comments were an apology with no "buts" in it - so many apologies these days have caveats attached to them.

Well done Hardwick and case closed in my books.