List Mgmt. Taking Stock

[SaintsSeptember]

So right here right now, with our current list.
Who are our best 22? Assume everyone fit. Assume we want to win rather than develop the youth.

Mine is:

Fisher, Simpkin, Gilbert
Roberton, Dempster, Gwilt
Dal Santo, Montagna, Ray
Lee, Armitage , Schnieder
Milne , Riewoldt, Jones

McEvoy, Steven, Hayes,

Geary, Ross, Newnes : Saunders

Its not perfect and its not a development team, but I cant help thinking we'd have done all right if all these guys had been able to play.

It looks a bit tall in the backline, but I'd fancy if Dempster was playing on Eddy Betts, Eddy wouldn't kick many. Gilbert also plays OK at low level.

Its a lot of work for McEvoy ( and no backup at all ).
The other option is to play Stanley as a ruck/fwd either instead of Lee or as well as.

 

[Squizz]

I thought this was a share tip thread ... "Talking Stocks" ... disappointed.

 

[Squizz]

For mine, it's just going to be so different in only a few weeks.

Players will retire, we'll probably get a FA and a mature backman, and the good kids (including Murdoch, Wright and Webster - not listed above) will start another pre-season.

Then you might get a development spurt out of Spence and maybe a Minchington. Who knows with Pierce if he can keep putting weight on without losing mobility.

Maybe Saad will recapture form.

Maister and Stanley are probably still best 22 when fit and played in the right position.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

So right here right now, with our current list.
Who are our best 22? Assume everyone fit. Assume we want to win rather than develop the youth.

Mine is:

Fisher, Simpkin, Gilbert
Roberton, Dempster, Gwilt
Dal Santo, Montagna, Ray
Lee, Armitage , Schnieder
Milne , Riewoldt, Jones

McEvoy, Steven, Hayes,

Geary, Ross, Newnes : Saunders

.

Who is this new CHF you talk of?

 

[hayes]

Geary Fisher Gwilt
Roberton Gilbert Dempster
Schneider Hayes Dal
Montagna Roo Stanley
Milne Lee/Maister Saad

Macca Steven Armo

Jones Newnes Ross Saunders

Something like that. Stanley in to backup Macca or go back if needed. But yeah injuries to the backline have been a killer.

Biggest changes/stuff ups to start the season IMO were too many small forwards and new faces in the backline. You aren't going anywhere without a solid back 6. We might have been undersized last year but the guys back there had been playing with each other for years so there was a lot of familiarity, we had new faces like Stanley, Siposs and Roberton back there who had played almost no football together. Throw in Fisher playing on one foot and it was always going to be a disaster. Don't need to say much about the mosquito fleet, I just remember all of Milne, Saad, Milera and TDL all in the team at once. May it never happen again.

If we have minimal injuries next year our tanking could be in jeopardy.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Trading Pick 47 for TDL has to be one of the most stupid decisions in recent history...could have been J. Tippett, Jack Frost, Hartigan, Sully...anyone really!

 

[Sheeza69]

I thought this was a share tip thread ... "Talking Stocks" ... disappointed.

Go to Hot Copper for your shareholder tips..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Who is this new CHF you talk of?

Its just a spot In reality I don't think we need another dedicated forward there , and mids can rotated through.

 

[aussierulesrules]

If we have minimal injuries next year our tanking could be in jeopardy.

Injuries have certainly killed us this year, but I think there's a fair chance we'll trade 2 or 3 out of our current best 22 at the end of the year and we may also lose a couple to retirement, so that will pretty much ensure that we don't win too many next year, I expect. If we get more injuries on top of that, it could get, what's the word for it? Ah yes, ugly!

 

[God Save Max King]

B: Gwilt, Fisher, Geary
HB: Gilbert, Dempster, Roberton
C: Montagna, Hayes, Dal Santo (not a bad midfield )
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Lee
FF: Hickey, Maister, Saad
R: McEvoy, Steven, Armitage
INT: Milne, Ross, Newnes SUB: Ray

I would say that eventually one of Maister/Hickey/McEvoy will have to go. Saunders would be pushing for a spot with Ray probably losing out eventually. CJ would have a spot ahead of a forward but with the structure the coaches like to play I don't see him getting a game.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

B: Gwilt, Fisher, Geary
HB: Gilbert, Dempster, Roberton
C: Montagna, Hayes, Dal Santo (not a bad midfield )
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Lee
FF: Hickey, Maister, Saad
R: McEvoy, Steven, Armitage
INT: Milne, Ross, Newnes SUB: Ray

I would say that eventually one of Maister/Hickey/McEvoy will have to go. Saunders would be pushing for a spot with Ray probably losing out eventually. CJ would have a spot ahead of a forward but with the structure the coaches like to play I don't see him getting a game.

I agree, Stanley in the mix too. I prefer Hickey as a ruck, Maister as a forward and Stanley as a rucking forward. Meanwhile Pierce is developing nicely ( so maybe we can do a monster trade for McEvoy ).
Very tall with all of Hickey, Maister, Reiwoldt, and Lee forward.

I wouldn't call it urgent though, are Carlton in dire straits because they have Hampson, Warnock and Kreuzer ( and Rowe ).

 

[Defacto]

So right here right now, with our current list.
Who are our best 22? Assume everyone fit. Assume we want to win rather than develop the youth.

Mine is:

Fisher, Simpkin, Gilbert
Roberton, Dempster, Gwilt
Dal Santo, Montagna, Ray
Lee, Armitage , Schnieder
Milne , Riewoldt, Jones

McEvoy, Steven, Hayes,

Geary, Ross, Newnes : Saunders

Its not perfect and its not a development team, but I cant help thinking we'd have done all right if all these guys had been able to play.

It looks a bit tall in the backline, but I'd fancy if Dempster was playing on Eddy Betts, Eddy wouldn't kick many. Gilbert also plays OK at low level.

Its a lot of work for McEvoy ( and no backup at all ).
The other option is to play Stanley as a ruck/fwd either instead of Lee or as well as.

there is no way simpkin is best 22. he's lucky to be in the side as it currently stands with all the injured personel

 

[Defacto]

B: Gwilt, Fisher, Geary
HB: Gilbert, Dempster, Roberton
C: Montagna, Hayes, Dal Santo (not a bad midfield )
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Lee
FF: Hickey, Maister, Saad
R: McEvoy, Steven, Armitage
INT: Milne, Ross, Newnes SUB: Ray

I would say that eventually one of Maister/Hickey/McEvoy will have to go. Saunders would be pushing for a spot with Ray probably losing out eventually. CJ would have a spot ahead of a forward but with the structure the coaches like to play I don't see him getting a game.

pretty good side. only thing i would be against is having hickey in there, he is not a fwd. stanley would take his spot up fwd in a heart beat

for me something like
B Geary Fisher Gwilt
HB Gilbert Dempster Roberton
C Montagna Armitage Dal
HF Schneider Roo Lee
F Stanley Maister Milne
R McEvoy Hayes Steven
INT Jones Ray Newnes
SUB Ross

i just realised the problem with doing this is some of the players are considered better based on their name to a certain extent due to injuries. for instance fisher, schneider, hayes have been injured for parts pf the season with being meh in games. some we need to move on and play sparingly for the sake of development

 

[Mowman]

Let's hope we trade and draft very well this year, because any of those best 22 sides isn't going to worry any other side in the league over next couple of years

 

[borderbarry]

Will it be a good idea to hold onto Milney, when his trial will probably occur next year? I know he is the only decent small forward on our list, but this has been his worst year for quite a while. Maybe we should be getting some games into Minchington at gthis stage.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Wright Gwilt Dempster
Roberton Fisher Newnes
Gilbert Armitage Montagna
Siposs Riewoldt Stanley
Schneider Lee Maister
McEvoy Geary, Steven

Dal Santo, Saunders, Ray (Murdoch)

I believe Milney will retire and so will Lenny.

 

[Baldur]

Let's hope we trade and draft very well this year, because any of those best 22 sides isn't going to worry any other side in the league over next couple of years

Agree in fact I look at our list and can see one young A grader at present Jack Steven. That's all folks. Some of the younger kids may become A graders. But then again maybe they will not. How many are breaking the door down, winning raising star awards etc? Nil Nada None

We appear to have the basis of the infantry required to bulk out a team. But Dal, Monti, Roo etc are not going to be around in four or so years. We need at least

- Two big key position backs
- A genuine champion key position forward
- A grade silk in the centre
- A ruckman that can win hitouts to advantage

Maybe Macca can become that ruckman but otherwise they will all need to be drafted in at the end of this year or the next, then developed without losing any young talent we already have. Which means we must keep most of our older talent to teach and train.

Therefore we must nail this years and next years drafts and trading. Something like we did in 2000 and 2001.

2000 - Gehrig, Milne, Riewoldt, Kosi
2001 - Ball, Dal, Maguire, Monti

If we do not we will sit in the bottom rungs for year after year. We may get a priority pick next year, we may not. If we pick any more mid size or small forwards you will hear my scream of rage from St Kilda to Brisbane.

As for our chances of winning games next year. The only teams below us at present are GWS and Melbourne. GWS is choka full of first round picks, so many they do not know how to use them all, like Gold Coast this year they will come good. Melbourne has lots of talented kids, their development has been a shambles. Jackson is a very good CEO, that will not last. And no team above us looks ready to drop hard to the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Rors]

Will it be a good idea to hold onto Milney, when his trial will probably occur next year? I know he is the only decent small forward on our list, but this has been his worst year for quite a while. Maybe we should be getting some games into Minchington at gthis stage.

Pretty sure Milne will be deregistered under AFL rules if the Commital Mention on September 13th confirms the case will go to trial...

I could be wrong though

 

[Squizz]

Pretty sure Milne will be deregistered under AFL rules if the Commital Mention on September 13th confirms the case will go to trial...

I could be wrong though

Whilst I haven't been following the matter closely, isn't the filth player going to trial for assault later in the year (but has won a rising star nomination in the meantime)?

Possibly the AFL would act once a trial starts?

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Whilst I haven't been following the matter closely, isn't the filth player going to trial for assault later in the year (but has won a rising star nomination in the meantime)?

Possibly the AFL would act once a trial starts?

Correct.

 

[stkildathunda]

Not to mention Liam Jurrah

 

[Baldur]

We will not be signing Milne at the end of this year. His form has not warrented another year. Even if we where tempted becouse he is a champion and may come good. The court case would make us reconsider. There is no way the club is going to wear the bad odour of signing a player facing rape charges unless he is a vital part of a team about to attempt to win us a flag.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Baldur, some great insights there. And the thing to remember for all of us is that, aside from the high picks like Roo, Kosi and Ball, nobody would have been that impressed with Dal, etc IN 2001 OR 2002. Newnes, Ross, etc, are pretty much the same.

 

[Sainttony]

With all the gloom and doom after the 101 point loss I wanted to put some perspective on our younger players and compare their current out put to the erly days of some of our current champions. This is only a snap shot but helps us understand the time development takes.

I have taken the average kicks, marks and DT points for Dal, Monty and Gary Ablett and compared them to Nathan Wright, Seb Ross and jack Newnes all in their first two years.

Dal Santo
2002
10.6 disposals
2.7 marks
45.4 DT

2003
19 disposals
5.1 marks
88.6 DT

Years until he averaged 90 DT points 3 years

Montagna
2003
10.4 disposals
2.5 marks
45.4 DT

2004
11.2 disp
3.1 marks
54 DT

Years until he averaged 90 DT. 6 years


Gary Ablett
2002
8.3 disp
1.1 marks
36.9 DT

2003
14.9 disp
2.8 marks
68.1 DT

Years until he averaged 90 DT. 5 years

Newnes
2012
12.3 disp
3.4 marks
52.7 DT

2013
15.1 disp
4.3 marks
58.1 DT

Seb Ross
2013
8.5 disp
3.0 marks
55.2 DT


Wright
2013
12 disp
2.0 marks
41.9 DT

So what this says is that development takes time and the players we have recruited could all be as good as Dal and Monty. It would be nice if they could develop as quickly as Dal did but he would appear to be one out of the box and it would be unlikely that they will.

My view is that they will need around 4 seasons to be to the competitive standard we need but all seem to be tracking fine. In fact Jack Newnes is tracking not that far below Ablett.

You would have to take into account the fact that the game has changed since 2002 03 and figures will be greater now but even take off a few stats for each still says they will be very good players and possibly even great players. We just have to give them time. Not all gloom and doom

 

[SaintLex]

Great post Sainttony

Only thing is here:

Seb Ross
2013
8.5 disp
3.0 marks
55.2 DT

Ross had 1 game in 2012, averaging 8 disp and 0 marks. He's averaging 15 disp, 3 marks this year.