Talls in Draft 2006

[Doggies05']

Scotty Clayton reckons that we should just go with the best pick available even if it is a midfielder, i would agree.

Its all good and well for us to pick a KPP, yet we have them sitting on our list at the moment. Walsh, Skipper, Wells, Tiller.

If we are to go for a KPP, ill throw up Ben Reid. He is expected to be available at our pick. 194cm, strong hands and a great kick at goal, problem is that he is 77kg and probably wont play AFL in 2007.

Any other suggestions, what are your views on the way to approach our first few picks?

 

[Dry Rot]

A hypothetical:

1. Let's say we retain our first round pick in say the next 3 drafts

2. Let's say that we have a pick in the range of 11-16

3. Let's say that each year, the best available is someone of Higgins or Ray's size, but lesser abilities

4. Only one of Williams, Walsh and Morgan work out

5. Darcy and Grant have retired in that timeframe

Where does this policy leave us in future years re talls and team balance?

 

[OldSchool]

A hypothetical:

1. Let's say we retain our first round pick in say the next 3 drafts

2. Let's say that we have a pick in the range of 11-16

3. Let's say that each year, the best available is someone of Higgins or Ray's size, but lesser abilities

4. Only one of Williams, Walsh and Morgan work out

5. Darcy and Grant have retired in that timeframe

Where does this policy leave us in future years re talls and team balance?

I think we all agree that the Dogs need to add a quality key position player who is ready to go however drafting the player who is clearly the best available with the first round selection shouldn't be compromised.
The trade for Aker who is a midfielder/small forward type, albeit a sensational player, for a 2nd round selection does however put pressure on the club to use the 1st round pick on a KPP.
Perhaps trade week might sort out who we should be drafting.

 

[Ysaye]

You have to go after one of Reiwoldt, McKenzie or Reid don't you?

Look at West Coast - if they win today, it was because they bothered to stick with a FF in Lynch rather than just play shorts all the time, not because of any differences in their midfield.

 

[OldSchool]

You have to go after one of Reiwoldt, McKenzie or Reid don't you?

Look at West Coast - if they win today, it was because they bothered to stick with a FF in Lynch rather than just play shorts all the time, not because of any differences in their midfield.

McKenzie does not appear to be a great selection at number 11 and ried is very light on and will need time so he does not answer and short term needs. Riewoldt is a good prospect.

 

[bullish23]

Scotty Clayton reckons that we should just go with the best pick available even if it is a midfielder, i would agree.

Its all good and well for us to pick a KPP, yet we have them sitting on our list at the moment. Walsh, Skipper, Wells, Tiller.

Two of those will be delisted (wells and walsh) and possibly a third (skipper) if you believe some of the trade threads.

We need a tall. I am not to concerned if he isn't going to play for the dogs in 07, but hopefully he will be able to hold down a spot in werribee seniors and look to play a few games in 08 and in 09 be a regular.

Grant has one year left and Darcy possibly 2. If Darcy does a knee again then he is gone for a good. Who is going to replace them ?

Why did WCE win this year as opposed to last year? Because in 06 they had Lynch at FF and not Chick.

 

[linkman]

Clayton has been very successful at this and I think we need to keep the faith.

Take the best and use them at a later date.

Some Doggies supporters need to be capable of "letting go" We may need to draft the best available and use that at some later stage to get what we want.

Aker is a case in pint. We will have to give somerthing up to get him. Mayble that is a Ray or a Faulkner or a Williams type. Someone who was the best available when our selcetion came up, and who provide us with the opportunity to get what we need somewhere down the track..

Before I get a million threads that Ray is safe and I "am an idiot" - I know. I am smply uing an example that sometimes we need to give soemthing away to get what we want.

 

[Dry Rot]

Take the best and use them at a later date.

Piggyback two smalls when we need talls?

 

[stefoid]

Clayton has been very successful at this and I think we need to keep the faith.

Take the best and use them at a later date.

Some Doggies supporters need to be capable of "letting go" We may need to draft the best available and use that at some later stage to get what we want.

Aker is a case in pint. We will have to give somerthing up to get him. Mayble that is a Ray or a Faulkner or a Williams type. Someone who was the best available when our selcetion came up, and who provide us with the opportunity to get what we need somewhere down the track..

Before I get a million threads that Ray is safe and I "am an idiot" - I know. I am smply uing an example that sometimes we need to give soemthing away to get what we want.

if you run the club with a hard-nosed attitude like that, then you cannot expect loyalty the other way - at some stage teams are going to be waving huge checkbooks in front of cooney and griffen, and we will reap what we sow in that regard.

 

[The nix]

I think we all agree that the Dogs need to add a quality key position player who is ready to go however drafting the player who is clearly the best available with the first round selection shouldn't be compromised.
The trade for Aker who is a midfielder/small forward type, albeit a sensational player, for a 2nd round selection does however put pressure on the club to use the 1st round pick on a KPP.
Perhaps trade week might sort out who we should be drafting.

The answer is simple then ....why bother wasting even our 2nd round pick on Akker. Most people seem to think that we are automatically going to take him. To be honest, we shouldn't take Akker.

That way we aren't pressured to take "any" KPP with our 1st selection.

Plus, a guy like Akker will definately be disliked by other players at the club before he even gets there - why upset team morale? I don't think he'll add value to the team when compared to what a 1st or even 2nd round pick can bring in the long-term (or short-term even).

Besides, if we are giving any early picks away it should be for Polak. I am surprised that it is Richmond and not us, that are making the big play for him.

 

[memberforever]

We don't need talls in the forward line, we need a strong centre half back. We have kicked more goals than any other team for the past two years. Its the back line thats the problem. Grant is now too old to play back there and Harris is exposed once Hargrave, Gilbee and Morris run down the ground. Also, Hargrave and Morris at 190cm are forced to play on taller players, we need to free them up to pick up the half forward flankers. Wight with an extra 10kilos, maybe be ok in the future, Williams is untried and Morgan is a likely type for Full back or CHB (remember he stitched up fervola a few years ago).

Therefore, we need a strong CHB, or full back (Harris to CHB).

 

[westdog54]

We don't need talls in the forward line, we need a strong centre half back. We have kicked more goals than any other team for the past two years. Its the back line thats the problem. Grant is now too old to play back there and Harris is exposed once Hargrave, Gilbee and Morris run down the ground. Also, Hargrave and Morris at 190cm are forced to play on taller players, we need to free them up to pick up the half forward flankers. Wight with an extra 10kilos, maybe be ok in the future, Williams is untried and Morgan is a likely type for Full back or CHB (remember he stitched up fervola a few years ago).

Therefore, we need a strong CHB, or full back (Harris to CHB).

Wight will pick up at least 5-10 kgs and a bit more of an engine over preseason, and is showing himself to be a very handy defender, the last few games of this season have probably saved his career. Morgan has also shown himself to be handy if not outstanding down back, both of these blokes can provide good backup to Harris, and Hargrave and Morris have both shown they can punch above their weight if called upon. I'm not saying we probably don't need another key defender but I don't think that the problem is as bad as is being made out.

 

[Dog Town]

Wight will pick up at least 5-10 kgs and a bit more of an engine over preseason, and is showing himself to be a very handy defender, the last few games of this season have probably saved his career.

Probably 2 or 3 kg is a bit more realistic. I think strength is more important than weight anyway. It is pretty obvious that even though he is pretty slight he has added a heap of strength in his 4 seasons. He is about on track to where we thought he would be. We just tend to lose track of time. When he was drafted 4 or 5 years was about the predicted time before we would see results.

 

[scooter600x]

We don't need talls in the forward line, we need a strong centre half back. We have kicked more goals than any other team for the past two years. Its the back line thats the problem. Grant is now too old to play back there and Harris is exposed once Hargrave, Gilbee and Morris run down the ground. Also, Hargrave and Morris at 190cm are forced to play on taller players, we need to free them up to pick up the half forward flankers. Wight with an extra 10kilos, maybe be ok in the future, Williams is untried and Morgan is a likely type for Full back or CHB (remember he stitched up fervola a few years ago).

Therefore, we need a strong CHB, or full back (Harris to CHB).

That's a falacy.

We get big scores kicked against us because our midfield has to push too far forward. If our midfield don't take risks and run hard forward, we can't pinpoint Johnno or Matt Robbins. If we bomb long it gets run out too easily.

No backline could handle the ball coming in that quick.

Harris, Grant, Wight, Hargrave and Morris can do the job.

We get big scores kicked against us because of our forward line, not our backline.

 

[Dry Rot]

That's a falacy.

We get big scores kicked against us because our midfield has to push too far forward. If our midfield don't take risks and run hard forward, we can't pinpoint Johnno or Matt Robbins. If we bomb long it gets run out too easily.

No backline could handle the ball coming in that quick.

Harris, Grant, Wight, Hargrave and Morris can do the job.

We get big scores kicked against us because of our forward line, not our backline.

Good post. Seems to be a view around here that because we mostly kick big scores, all is right up forward.

Agree with the reasons you gave. In particular, if our midfield is under pressure from the top sides and we have to bomb it long like anyone else, we have no tall targets to make a contest.

I'd also add the midfield to this equation. Needs to approach defensive abilities of the Swans and Crows, and really scrap when it has to.

PS Also when you get smashed in the clearances, you can expect the ball heading in the direction of our backline. Very often.

 

[stefoid]

anyone watching the finals could see the pressure being applied to the midfields made pinpoint passing into the F50 very rare.

 

[Dog Town]

anyone watching the finals could see the pressure being applied to the midfields made pinpoint passing into the F50 very rare.

By the same token contested marks were equally rare with only 7 for the entire game for the winners with most of them being around the ground. I think it is improvements in all areas that will help us not simply adding a big body to the forward line. Our forward line definetly contributes to our leaky defence and this has been the way since the Wallace days but it is by no means the sole contributor and I dont think our forward line is completely stuffed.

The major negative for our forward line at the moment is that 3 major parts of it are out with long term injuries. How quickly these guys get back to somewhere approaching their best footy will have a major impact on how we go in the next year or two. With a fully fit forward line it is better and even more balanced than West Coats IMO and I truly believe that. I think one tall is all that is really needed up forward to help Grant and he doesn't need to be Tredrea or Hall. Whether that player comes from our current list I am not sure. I dont think we can rely on Darcy next year so that is where we probably need to look a getting someone in to give us some depth. Johnson and Murphy will share the lead up role IMO when we get both of them in the side at once.

As DR said if we are getting completely slaughtered at the stoppages then it is putting our defence under the pump straight away. Our general competitive work around the ground needs to improve and Eade has already improved it out of sight. We also forget that we are one of the few teams that doesn't put numbers behind the ball in any big way. While the crows and swans are lauded for the way they keep teams to low scores they also push more numbers back than most teams and use this as an attacking weapon because it opens up space for guys like O'Keefe to push up as a CHF. I dont know if Eade will change much about the way we play but one thing I do know is that West Coast also pushed forward very hard through the midfield to unlock both the crows and the swans and were able to do it without coughing up massive amounts of goals. So I just think it is a balance of things that we need to get.

The actual thread topic is probably a different issue because anything we draft needs to be with a view to 3 or 4 years down the track and further. We will go best available again but I hope we pick a well rounded crop of players. Melbourne has showed that you can change your midfield pretty quickly. Ball winners generally come on quicker than otside players or talls so that is probably an area we can work on through the draft quicker than other areas.

I would look at Riewoldt around our pick as he is already having a big impact at vfl level and he is the only tall I have seen outside of the national champs. Most seem to think he would be around the mark for us. The likes of Gumbeton , Hansen , Sellars , Thorpe and Luenberger are tipped to be snaped up pretty early from what I have read. If Reiwoldt was still available then he would have to be looked at. Selwood is an inside midfielder who looked fantastic this time last year but has dropped in some peoples minds. I would have no problem with picking him up. I know doc rates Albert Proud as a midfielder and then the nippier Clayton type outside players will come into it as well. Jetta , Collard and the like seem like they wil be around our pick as outside players not that I know a great deal about them.

 

[Sedat!]

That's a falacy.

We get big scores kicked against us because our midfield has to push too far forward. If our midfield don't take risks and run hard forward, we can't pinpoint Johnno or Matt Robbins. If we bomb long it gets run out too easily.

No backline could handle the ball coming in that quick.

Harris, Grant, Wight, Hargrave and Morris can do the job.

We get big scores kicked against us because of our forward line, not our backline.

Agree wholeheartedly. Our backline suffers because there is far too much clean and easy ball coming into it courtesy of the opposition's midfield. This clean delivery happens because we are one of the worst teams in the competition at the clearances and stoppages. The games where we won our share of the midfield clearances, our backline showed how resolute they can be as a unit. The loss of Hahn's grunt at the stoppages hurt us immeasurably in this regard after the mid-season break.

Darcy seems to have been completely forgotten in all the discussion. He is a ready-made and hugely talented recruit for us, and he's had virtually 2 years away from the bash and crash: physically he will be flying come Round 1 next season. It's actually a blessing in disguise that he has missed the last 2 years because it has fast-tracked the development of Minsoin and Street and we will also get him back fit and fresh when we are (hopefully) entering our "contending" phase. No reason why he could not play another 3 or even 4 seasons in this role. His presence alone up forward will make life much tougher for opposition defences, and also make us less predicatable going forward. It will also make all our other forwards that more dangerous as a result.

 

[Dry Rot]

Darcy seems to have been completely forgotten in all the discussion. He is a ready-made and hugely talented recruit for us, and he's had virtually 2 years away from the bash and crash: physically he will be flying come Round 1 next season.

Only time will tell - could well be the opposite story.

I think most of us have a bit of a blinkered view of his prospects next season.

 

[Gooka]

I find it strange the amount of people who seem to think Darcy in the forward line will change all our problems.

Not saying he won't help a lot, but he's never kicked massive numbers of goals. He's played some good cameos up forward but he was a gun ruckman, not a gun forward before injury. I hope he turns into a gun forward, but it might not happen.

 

[Dry Rot]

I hope he turns into a gun forward, but it might not happen.

That's right, and it will be a miracle if Grant stays injury free for another season.

 

[Dog Town]

I think the main thing with Darcy will be getting confidence in the joint which is always the biggest thing with a knee. Once he does that then he will see the benefits of having two seasons off provided that he doesn't do it again.

 

[Sedat!]

I find it strange the amount of people who seem to think Darcy in the forward line will change all our problems.

Not saying he won't help a lot, but he's never kicked massive numbers of goals. He's played some good cameos up forward but he was a gun ruckman, not a gun forward before injury. I hope he turns into a gun forward, but it might not happen.

Of course it will. He is a big body and can take a strong contested mark. At 198cms, he will be a handful for the opposition's best key defender, which frees up immeasurable space for players like Johnson, Robbins, Murphy, Hahn, Gia and others. He can also provide some ruck relief on occassions, which will naturally improve our ability to win the clearances. It will have a domino effect. I think that we are being overly pessimistic when it comes to Darcy - he is a top shelf footballer, physically fresh from 2 years out of the game, and will be hungry and desperate to re-establish his AFL career.

 

[Borgsta]

Darcy - he is a top shelf footballer, physically fresh from 2 years out of the game, and will be hungry and desperate to re-establish his AFL career.

Well the top half of his body is fresh anyway. The bottom half is recovering from 2 knee reconstructions.

 

[Sedat!]

Well the top half of his body is fresh anyway. The bottom half is recovering from 2 knee reconstructions.

Provided the structural nature of his injury has been addressed, his lower half will also be in top shape. No quads, hammies, calves, groins, OP - he's had pretty much a complete rest for 2 years.