Tasmania

[Rob]

There’s no money is Tassie and it’s not growing. The AFL won’t go there.

South Melbourne moved to Sydney due to money. Every team that’s been added since has been done for the purposes of money. Can’t people see the theme?

LOL, yeah. The Gold Coast and GWS are just almighty cash cows. The money that they'll generate will be in the billions.

It's about gaining supporters. If it was about money, GC and GWS would never have gotten past the first stage.

 

[blaze036]

LOL, yeah. The Gold Coast and GWS are just almighty cash cows. The money that they'll generate will be in the billions.

It's about gaining supporters. If it was about money, GC and GWS would never have gotten past the first stage.

Supports are just part of gaining money. U srsly dont understand how business works.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

LOL, yeah. The Gold Coast and GWS are just almighty cash cows. The money that they'll generate will be in the billions.

It's about gaining supporters. If it was about money, GC and GWS would never have gotten past the first stage.

Money meaning the payback, not the cost.

You think it’s the goal of the AFL to forever fund clubs in Western Sydney and the Gold Coast? The forecasted payoffs for GC and GWS are very long term, but the ultimate goal is absolutely for them to be super powerful cash cows in a few decades time – because they’ll tap into and attract huge supporter bases. So in a way our arguments are probably one and the same.

Sure they’re making huge investment now - on the assumption it’ll pay itself back many times over in the future. The payback is the decider in whether something gets off the ground, not the size of the initial cost.

The game of Australian Rules is funded by the money generated by interest in the AFL competition. No other league contributes cash. There’s no money in Tassie and its not growing. The AFL won’t go there unless things change dramatically.

 

[blaze036]

The AFL won’t go there unless things change dramatically.

NOONE will go there unless things change dramatically

 

[Rob]

Supports are just part of gaining money. U srsly dont understand how business works.

You don't understand how the AFL works. Go and have a read of the AFL's governing documents, and tell me where it says anything about making money. The AFL isn't a privately owned company with shareholders. Every cent earned goes back into the game.

The only incentive to make money comes from the ability to use money to expand the game. More money means more towards game development, promotion, Auskick and the like. Money is simply a means to an end - being greater interest and support for the game. For that reason more money is obviously a better result.

On a commercial basis, Gold Coast, and especially GWS, is suicide. Even if they are a success (to which there are absolutely no guarantees), it's probably going to take 20 or 30 years to recoup the cost. The reason it's going ahead is for one reason only - to expand the supporter base for the league and game. If you think otherwise then you don't have a clue what's going on. The reason Tassie doesn't have a team is the same - it won't expand the supporter base for the league and game as everyone there already follows football and the AFL.

 

[sherrinorburley]

LOL, yeah. The Gold Coast and GWS are just almighty cash cows. The money that they'll generate will be in the billions.

It's about gaining supporters. If it was about money, GC and GWS would never have gotten past the first stage.

Tasmania would have a team at a fraction of the cost of the 2nd Queensland & NSW teams.

Anti TAS sentiment in this thread is too funny. They have no friggin idea

 

[Gak Attack]

Tasmania would have a team at a fraction of the cost of the 2nd Queensland & NSW teams.

Anti TAS sentiment in this thread is too funny. They have no friggin idea

I did have a good laugh at it reading some. We may not make the AFL money but we would be able to support ourselves, I mean we are paying for 6 games a year as it is to pump up at least one club that can't support itself.

The VFL argument I saw is laughable, clearly presented by someone with no idea of how footy works at a local level in this state. The team ran at a loss because it was in the VFL... in another state and trying to do it with players traveling from all over the place. Early on it got good crowds and wasn't doing too bad but the deal with Norf seemed to kill off any interest in the team and as it became South based the North and NW lost interest to where it barely got half a page in the papers here. The local players were getting paid barely a cent and given the hours and weekends lost to it you can see why a lot of Northern players and some from the South couldn't be bothered when they could earn more playing locally. How this can be compared to a team in the highest league playing 11 games probably at home against other AFL teams I just cannot see how you could link the two.

If we can't get our own team because they're worried about us economically I just wish we would tell the money grabbing Melbourne clubs to **** off, we seem to be managing to pay to keep these clubs alive OK. In reality our best bet is to try and get our own A-League team down here, the only thing likely to change the AFL's mind is when they risk losing control of the market here, while they have it and we pump up their existing teams with $$$ they will leave it as is.

Half the problem has been the North/South issue. When there's a higher population in the North but the biggest city is in the South this is always going to happen. Rightly or wrongly with the upgrades to both stadiums we could happily split home games making it a truely statewide supported team. Also I would imagine when teams would only be coming down once every 2 years or so there would be a large number of fans from the Victorian teams spending the little time and money it will cost to come over to have a weekend here. With some of the big clubs, if the services were there for them to all travel you could expect a big boost to any local crowd.

 

[Oakland Raider]

Tasmania would have a team at a fraction of the cost of the 2nd Queensland & NSW teams.

Anti TAS sentiment in this thread is too funny. They have no friggin idea

Not to mention less travelling for all teams bar Sydney & Brisbane.

Tasmania is/would be win win.

 

[Rob]

Tasmania would have a team at a fraction of the cost of the 2nd Queensland & NSW teams.

I think you're probably right. Which would seem to prove that the AFL clearly isn't in it for the money - If Tassie would cost less, then why go to West Sydney?

 

[blaze036]

The amount of times ive read from a tasmanian "were keeping some victorian teams alive (i assume ur refering to Hawthorn and North) is funny. Im sure ur 500 grand a year (approx, the point still stands) is all thats keeping north melbourne afloat. And with the inequal pay scale to smaller clubs annouced clubs like north dont even need to go donw to tassy anymore, but probably still will do to boost supporter numbers.

GWS/GC are so clearly better options than tassy, whos population is stalled/going backwards and economy is piss weak, plus putting a team there would not grow the game, just weaken victorian clubs as they lose tassy based supporters instead of getting NEW supports from NEW MASSIVE markets. Sure in the SHORT TERM a tassy team is a better idea. in the LONG TERM a gc/gws team means a bigger sport a lot more money more support better everything. A tasmanian team would not be able to compete financially in this times of HUGE off field spending just to keep up. A Tasmanian team could MAYBE survive financially (after selling games and getting huge grants from the AFL every year) but there off field spending would be at record low lvls and they would be an embarrassment. There sponsership money would be laughable low relativly to teams like GWS (who already have Skoda amoung a few others). YES mars said they would sponser u, but only after the deal was announced it wouldnt happen which means it was likely they weren't entirely serious about it as they did not announce that intention to the AFL when they had a chance to.

And rofl at the suggestion of an A-League team comming down, over half of them are financially screwed now, they would laugh at the suggestion of going to Tasmania.

I hope the Tasmanians who read this are mature enough to realize this isn't an attack on Tasmania, i would like a Tasmanian team but im merely pointing out the flaws and the bonuses of choosing gws/gc

 

[blaze036]

On a commercial basis, Gold Coast, and especially GWS, is suicide. Even if they are a success (to which there are absolutely no guarantees), it's probably going to take 20 or 30 years to recoup the cost. The reason it's going ahead is for one reason only - to expand the supporter base for the league and game. If you think otherwise then you don't have a clue what's going on. The reason Tassie doesn't have a team is the same - it won't expand the supporter base for the league and game as everyone there already follows football and the AFL.

20-30 years to recoup the cost? umm they've already added many many many millions to the TV deal (the new teams add in more games to the season plus rate extreamly well). On a commercial basis suicide? holy shit man can u stop stating ur ******ed opinion as fact when you have ZERO idea of the facts and figures.

 

[chesson]

I think you're probably right. Which would seem to prove that the AFL clearly isn't in it for the money - If Tassie would cost less, then why go to West Sydney?

Good question.

At an educated guess, dimewits ego and unlimited budget.

 

[chesson]

i would like a Tasmanian team but im merely pointing out the flaws and the bonuses of choosing gws/gc

You have not pointed out anything that resembles common sense.

 

[blaze036]

You have not pointed out anything that resembles common sense.

Unless someone comes up with credible documents that contradict the AFL's assessment that Tasmania is financially unviable, none of the pro-Tasmanian points contain much common sense either

 

[Nick Lions]

Personally, I believe the AFL should have expanded into Tasmania and the Northern Territory as opposed to Gold Coast and GWS (shudder). Tasmania is exclusively an Australian Rules state (with the exception of cricket I believe?), produces quality young footballers, has a large current supporter base and has current facilities equipped for football in Aurora Stadium and Bellerive Oval. Obviously if the grounds were to host AFL games they would require facelifts to reach a sufficient seating capacity, but Carrara got one with the help of the state government.
Northern Territory is in the same boat. They are an Australian Rules state, with their own competition and a side in the NEAFL (2011 premiership winning side at that!!). They also have a number of talented young players coming through the ranks, and would attract the required supporter base to be eligible for an AFL side. They also have TIO stadium, which would also require work but is a very good football ground.
If the AFL's argument is that they do not see any chance of economic development in Tasmania, I don't understand why they have chosen Gold Coast or Greater Western Sydney, whilst economic growth is on the rise in both areas, it is my understanding that majority of the people moving to these areas are "new Australians", people from Asian, Middle Eastern and Pacific Islander backgrounds, areas with traditionally strong soccer and rugby followings. Obviously some "new Australians" will adopt our sport, but it seems the AFL is taking a very big risk, banking that these citizens will adopt Australian Rules.
GWS is probably more puzzling because of the lack of players coming from the area (other than GWS and Sydney Swans reserves, there is not currently a NSW side in the NEAFL) and the fact that Rugby League does not even attract large membership numbers or crowd figures in its HOME STATE.
Surely a low to middle range guaranteed membership figure and supporter base, is better than a potential mid range membership figure and supporter base. Of course this is on the assumption that big Melbourne clubs like Collingwood, Carlton, Hawthorn etc. would have high membership figures and supporter bases.
These new expansion clubs are highly unlikely to reach the supporter bases or membership figures of clubs like Collingwood and Hawthorn.

 

[Oakland Raider]

Very credible assessment there Nick Lions.

AFL assessment...lulz.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Newcastle, Canberra, Wollongong and Sunshine Coast are all bigger than Hobart.

Do they deserve an AFL club too? Or does British colonial mapping mean Tasmania is special and deserves a club?

 

[Kwality]

Newcastle, Canberra, Wollongong and Sunshine Coast are all bigger than Hobart.

Do they deserve an AFL club too? Or does British colonial mapping mean Tasmania is special and deserves a club?

Are you ignoring Tassies role as a nursery for Aussie Rules footy ... it was r*ped wholesale in the VFL days.

Its not as if Vic produces enough footballers for what it needs. We hear calls to protect footys heartland*, Tas is a footy nursery & deserves more including a side.

* stump up clubs that cant cut it, claiming grants because a couple of clubs get a free ride in fixturing, take the benefits & put diddly poop back in - yep, the Bomboms are one of those.

 

[Tassieboy]

Newcastle, Canberra, Wollongong and Sunshine Coast are all bigger than Hobart.

Do they deserve an AFL club too? Or does British colonial mapping mean Tasmania is special and deserves a club?

Poor arguement. Are any of these places AFL strong holds? No they're not IMO.

 

[sherrinorburley]

Newcastle, Canberra, Wollongong and Sunshine Coast are all bigger than Hobart.

Do they deserve an AFL club too? Or does British colonial mapping mean Tasmania is special and deserves a club?

Yeah they are all STATES of AUSTRALIA

 

[blaze036]

Tassy deserves a team but cant finacially support one long term, dats the bottom line.

 

[sherrinorburley]

No its your boyttom line.


Australian Football League.

 

[BarneyBent]

Personally, I believe the AFL should have expanded into Tasmania and the Northern Territory as opposed to Gold Coast and GWS (shudder). Tasmania is exclusively an Australian Rules state (with the exception of cricket I believe?), produces quality young footballers, has a large current supporter base and has current facilities equipped for football in Aurora Stadium and Bellerive Oval. Obviously if the grounds were to host AFL games they would require facelifts to reach a sufficient seating capacity, but Carrara got one with the help of the state government.
Northern Territory is in the same boat. They are an Australian Rules state, with their own competition and a side in the NEAFL (2011 premiership winning side at that!!). They also have a number of talented young players coming through the ranks, and would attract the required supporter base to be eligible for an AFL side. They also have TIO stadium, which would also require work but is a very good football ground.
If the AFL's argument is that they do not see any chance of economic development in Tasmania, I don't understand why they have chosen Gold Coast or Greater Western Sydney, whilst economic growth is on the rise in both areas, it is my understanding that majority of the people moving to these areas are "new Australians", people from Asian, Middle Eastern and Pacific Islander backgrounds, areas with traditionally strong soccer and rugby followings. Obviously some "new Australians" will adopt our sport, but it seems the AFL is taking a very big risk, banking that these citizens will adopt Australian Rules.
GWS is probably more puzzling because of the lack of players coming from the area (other than GWS and Sydney Swans reserves, there is not currently a NSW side in the NEAFL) and the fact that Rugby League does not even attract large membership numbers or crowd figures in its HOME STATE.

Everything you have written here is far more an argument for why GWS and GC are BETTER targets than Tasmania and the NT.

Tasmania and NT are already saturated with football culture. There is nobody to convert, and therefore nothing to achieve. Putting football teams in these two areas will simply convert football fans from some clubs to others. They won't attract NEW supporters to the game, nor will they attract new players, and those are the aims of AFL expansion.

Western Sydney and the Gold Coast, on the other hand, have lots of people that are either codeless or are rugby/soccer fans. Every one of these people is a potential new AFL member, and there are millions of them. Not all will join up. In fact, very, VERY few will. But there doesn't need to be that many. One percent will do just fine. If one percent of people in Sydney become members of the Swans or Giants, you've got 50,000 members between the two clubs. Never mind people in other areas of NSW.

Honestly, what is the point of expansion if you already own the area you're expanding to? That's not expansion, that's.... gardening.

Surely a low to middle range guaranteed membership figure and supporter base, is better than a potential mid range membership figure and supporter base. Of course this is on the assumption that big Melbourne clubs like Collingwood, Carlton, Hawthorn etc. would have high membership figures and supporter bases.
These new expansion clubs are highly unlikely to reach the supporter bases or membership figures of clubs like Collingwood and Hawthorn.

On what do you base this? GWS and GC are both likely to replicate the membership performances of the Swans and Broncos in the next few decades. That's about 50,000 NEW members between them (probably more as the population increases and new membership benchmarks are set across the AFL). This is as opposed to Tassie and NT having membership bases composed largely of former members of other clubs. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul, and it makes no sense.

 

[mezaire]

There’s no money is Tassie and it’s not growing. The AFL won’t go there.

South Melbourne moved to Sydney due to money. Every team that’s been added since has been done for the purposes of money. Can’t people see the theme?

They’ll play a few games there but that’s to help Victorian clubs, not to help Tassie.

Just deal with it and move on.

With the money being spent on mining here in Tassie it's doing a damn site better than GC!! Been to Sanctuary Cove lately?? Must be hundreds if not thousands of unsold apartments!!

 

[Tassieboy]

Honestly, what is the point of expansion if you already own the area you're expanding to? That's not expansion, that's.... gardening.
quote]

What's wrong with "gardening"?