Team for 3rd test

[TheMase]

Since we have already retained the Frank Worrell Trophy, we might aswell give Clarke a run.

Here is my team for the 3rd test.

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Lehmann
Clarke
Waugh
Gilchrist
Lee
Gilespie
MacGill
McGrath

12th Man - Bichel

 

[red+black]

i don't think Clarke will play. Love for Clarke (pardon the pun).

 

[St-KriS]

Yeah, Love instead of Clarke. Love did nothing wrong in his first 2 tests and dont worry, Clarke will get his chance soon enough.

 

[ScouseCat]

Michael Clarke will play test cricket for Australia but I don't think it will be in this series.

1. Matthew Hayden
2. Justin Langer
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Darren Lehmann
5. Steve Waugh - will bat if required
6. Adam Gilchrist
7. Brad Hogg
8. Brett Lee
9. Jason Gillespie
10. Stuart MacGill
11. Glenn McGrath

12th Man: Andy Bichel

I can't see Brad Hogg being dropped for a fast bowler as I don't think we need 4 fast bowlers in the team on those Carribean pitches.

 

[lamby29]

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Lehmann
Waugh
Clarke
Gilchrist
Hogg
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

 

[Wicked Lester]

I agree - give Clark a chance. In fact tell him he's got two tests to get some experience.

He can only gain from it.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Why should Martin Love be punished?

He deserved to be in that team from the first test onwards.

 

[red+black]

if they just drop waugh, then love and clarke can both play and then everyone's happy.

except bichel. again.

 

[Slax]

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Lehmann
Waugh
Love
Gilchrist
Hogg
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

I understand the calls to give Clarke some experience but it is a test match not a ODI and it is all about winning and playing your best 11, and there is no way known that Clarke is a better batsman than Love.

 

[Nige_Bix]

It makes you wonder whether it is worth Glenn McGrath going - maybe the rest would do him good.

And Jane would probably really love to have him home!

 

[Wicked Lester]

Originally posted by dezzmo
It makes you wonder whether it is worth Glenn McGrath going - maybe the rest would do him good.

And Jane would probably really love to have him home!

Yeah I wondered that as well. The Frank Worrell trophy has been retained, is there any real point. Given the cirumstances I'm sure his wife would love to have him home for a while.

Which raises an interesting point about the differences between Football and Cricket. There have been a number of footballers recently stating that if their baby arrives on match day then football comes second.

I don't get the same sense that this applies for the boys in the baggy green. Having recently become a father myself I can't believe anyone could miss the event except under the most abnormal circumstances.

I always thought it strange that Steve Waugh elected to stay in England during the 2001 ashes series when injured - he sat out one test then returned to play in the final test. The final two tests were 'dead' matches in so far as the ashes had already been retained.

Meanwhile his wife gave birth back here in Australia to their second or third child. Given the fact the series was over I really couldn't believe this.

But back to the thread - its not a case of punishing Love, he is a fine professional cricketer and can be expected to do the job when asked. Its just that Clark is a rare talent who is a ten to fifteen year prospect. Give him some experience while the team is at the top level and he can play with confidence. It may be far harder to blood such players in three or so years time when there is no Waugh, Warne, McGrath, Langer, and possibly others. By then the team may not be as successful as it currently is and new players will not have the same opportunity to be eased into the team.

 

[red+black]

i thought i heard that Jane was going to go with him ?

 

[DaveW]

Langer
Hayden
Ponting (c)
Lehmann
Love
Clarke
Gilchrist
Bichel
Gillespie
MacGill
McGrath

 

[The Passenger]

No points bringing McGrath over now.

Play Noffke as well, although I'd give Gillespie or Lee the break. Bichel didn't do much but he got three crucial wickets last night when it looked like Lara could steal it.

Drop MacGill - he bowls trash

Bring in Love.

Australian's have never been a team though, at least not recently, to give a guy a run for the sake of it.

THey make them earn it which is why they are so good.

 

[ajackett110]

I think Love and Clarke (Love especially) should seriously be considered ahead of Lehmann... Well at least before the 2nd test when Lehmann got 160.

I just don't think Boof has a good enough technique for test cricket (ODI's are a different case), but his age should also be taken into consideration.

Australia are probably not doing enough to secure the future of Australian cricket, as their experienced players are no longer making the impact at which made them stars (eg. Both Waughs - Mark hung up the boots at the right time... about time Steve does the same ) The middle order roles could/should be filled by youth while keeping the younger senior players in the top order.

Also, something has to be done about Bichel... Amazing bowler and would open for any other country, but at full strength he can't even fit into the best 11. Poor bloke, his talent on the international scene have gone to waste simply due to Lee, Gillespie and McGrath

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by straightjackett110
I just don't think Boof has a good enough technique for test cricket (ODI's are a different case), but his age should also be taken into consideration.

What has technique got to do with anything?

Results matter most. Lehmann has plundered domestic bowlers with that 'not good enough technique' for the last 10 years. How you came to a conclusion that he is better than the vast majority in the domestic arena but will suddenly be found out in the international arena is beyond me.

I think you should get some toilet paper for your mouth because you're talking sh1t.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by ajackett110
I think Love and Clarke (Love especially) should seriously be considered ahead of Lehmann... Well at least before the 2nd test when Lehmann got 160.

I just don't think Boof has a good enough technique for test cricket (ODI's are a different case), but his age should also be taken into consideration.

Australia are probably not doing enough to secure the future of Australian cricket, as their experienced players are no longer making the impact at which made them stars (eg. Both Waughs - Mark hung up the boots at the right time... about time Steve does the same ) The middle order roles could/should be filled by youth while keeping the younger senior players in the top order.

Also, something has to be done about Bichel... Amazing bowler and would open for any other country, but at full strength he can't even fit into the best 11. Poor bloke, his talent on the international scene have gone to waste simply due to Lee, Gillespie and McGrath

you obviously dont know that much and do not follow cricket too closely.

for a start, the fact that lehmann doesn't have a good enough technique? what a load of ****. not that it matters whether a guy has good technique anyway. as bunsen said, its runs that matter, it is not ballet FFS.

Mark Waugh hung up the boots at the right time?? he was dropped, but i wouldnt expect you to know that.

about time steve does the same?? again, stop talking out of your arse, he's only scored more runs than any domestic player this year and is near the best form of his career..

and why does something have to be done about bichel? just because he could make the english team is no justification whatsoever for selecting him above McGrath, Lee and Gillespie.

 

[Wicked Lester]

Originally posted by nicko18

about time steve does the same?? again, stop talking out of your arse, he's only scored more runs than any domestic player this year and is near the best form of his career..

Nicko18 - I think you may have been sucked in by hysterical media reporting over Steve Waugh's good finish to the Australian domestic season.

In the Pura Cup Steve finished eighth (not first) in terms of runs scored behind Blewett (843 @ 49.58), Fitzgerald, Slater, Clarke, Rogers, Arnberger and Goodwin. Steve's Pura cup record for 2002/3 year was 659 @ 50.69 (3 centuries and one fifty from 13 innings).

Now Steve did play a couple of less Pura Cup matches than the others but he did get to play 5 test matches against England so perhaps we should look at his 2002/3 first class record. 964 runs at 46 from 22 innings which is second to Martin Love's 1,120 runs at 66 from 22 innings. The other Pura Cup players did not have the same number of innings as these two to get their tallies up. Similarly a number of other very well performed players in terms of their averages also did not play anywhere near this much first class cricket due to one day international commitments.

So what does all this tell us. Steve's season was rescued at the end by a burst of good form. He did not outscore everyone alse. He was not even the highest scorer for NSW and I suspect the great man himself would be insulted by these continual suggestions that a first class season in which he avergaed 45 represents career best form. His figures indicate a good solid season - a moderate test series rescued from disaster by his final test heroics along with a good pura cup return in which he averaged his long term average - but not a stand out season.

 

[dr nick]

wicked lester, i think it is you who is sucked in by your determination to overlook the runs he's been getting lately, and if you reread my post, i said this year.

sure you can twist the argument anyway you want to include matches some 7 months ago when he was in lesser form, but that doesnt detract from the multitude of runs he's been getting lately.

to suggest that his season was salvaged by some late knocks is no justification for your argument whatsoever. Ricky Ponting went through a horror run in India but hit form in the Australian summer, yet only those who have some sort of problem with him would latch onto the fact, that before he hit form, he was out of form and so he is shaky

and again you have embarassed yourself by suggesting that steve waugh would be insulted by me saying he is in career best form. he himself has said so.

he is one of the most in form players in the country, nobody could dispute that

 

[Wicked Lester]

Nicko - one can indeed twist statistics to suit there argument.

Odd that you berate people in other posts for their 'obvious' lack of cricket knowledge. I took you as a purist and for that reason when you mentioned that Steve Waugh "had scored more runs than any other domestic player this year" I assumed 'year' would have been in the context of the 2002/3 first class season - that is after all how the season's statistics are compiled.

So on the basis of his last ten or so first class innings (this calenday year) then I agree, he's in good form. But if as you assert he's in the best form of his career you have still failed to answer my posts in the other thread in which I suggested that I thought it odd he didn't take the opportunity to demonstrate his form.

My queries are, and I'll state them again briefly;

1) The selectors appear to be looking for a reason to drop him;
2) Selectors in determining whether or not to axe a long term player do not look at short term bursts of form at domestic level but look instead to evidence of a long term decline at test level.
3) Selectors also look at form exhibited in 'live tests' as against 'dead tests' (I'm not making this up - read John Benaud's book or Bob Simpson's ranting on selection matters) - on this in particular Steve looks fairly vulnerable over a two year period.
4) Whether he/you/anyone else likes it or not, the form of a near 38 year old is going to be scrutinsed more than a 32, 28 or 25 year old. Its simple - the younger player if nursed through a lean spot has many year of potential service to come.
5) Hohns has said Steve will now be judged as a batsman - his captaincy will not be a factor in ongoing tenure. Blind Freddy can see the selectors are looking closely at him.
6) With these points in mind I found it odd he didn't show a personal hunger for runs in the second test. It may have taken away any ammunition the selctors are gathering.

So I'll restate my position; I'm not calling for him to be dropped right now. As they will at the end of every series from now on, the selectors will undoubtedly sit down to consider the situation. On that basis, if Stephen is still seeking a long term role in the team, it may well have been in his interests to have batted in the second test.

If however he can display his form in the final two tests he may well hang on anyway - but time may be running out.

 

[EagleBlue]

The team that I think WILL be chosen (in batting order)

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Love
Waugh
Lehmann
Gilchrist
Leel
Gillespie
McGill
McGrath

Bichel or Hogg 12th

The team I would chose


Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Lehmann
Waugh
Gilchrist
Hogg
Bichel
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

Love 12th

 

[TheMase]

Geez ... the decision is getting harder by the second ...

Hogg 23 5 94 3
MacGill 13 2 40 5

 

[Slax]

Originally posted by Wicked Lester

5) Hohns has said Steve will now be judged as a batsman - his captaincy will not be a factor in ongoing tenure. Blind Freddy can see the selectors are looking closely at him.
6) With these points in mind I found it odd he didn't show a personal hunger for runs in the second test. It may have taken away any ammunition the selctors are gathering.

These may be good points but it must also be remembered that Steve did have stitches on his left hand and he was probably trying to protect the hand as he didn't reeally need to bat.