Teams that feel stupid right now: Phoenix, LA, Chicago

[Karl Pilkington]

All three of these teams could have had KG.

Lakers - Kupchak refused to trade Bynum for him. Considering Kwame likely would have had to be included to fit salary - you could argue that it made very little difference in the end, as the Lakers wouldn't have landed Gasol. But then you remember that Garnett does everything Gasol does, but a lot more. Lakers with Garnett/Kobe/Odom have more strings to their bow than with Gasol.

Chicago - Once again, could have got Garnett for Deng, Gordon (both of whom might leave before next season btw). Probably not a big deal for Chicago, looking at how they're going in the long run.

Phoenix - this is the one that would sting the most. They could have gone a straight swap, Stoudemire for Garnett. Leaves them with a core of Nash/Marion/Garnett, which imo is infinitely more potent than Nash/Soutdemire/Shaq's corpse. With that Nash/Marion/Garnett trio, you get two top tier defenders, one a perimeter guy, one an inside guy - the best offensive point guard going around. Surrounded by three point shooters and capable veterans.

You have two veteran MVP's who will do anything for a ring, and Marion gets to finally stop worrying about giving up shots to Amare. Best of all, you just blow it all up and start from scratch in two years, instead of giving Amare franchise money and a long deal when he clearly isn't a franchise player, which is almost guaranteed to happen now.

If I was a phoenix fan, and let's be honest if they did this trade I probably would have been, I'd seriously consider killing myself.

 

[mdc]

Lakers - Kupchak refused to trade Bynum for him. Considering Kwame likely would have had to be included to fit salary - you could argue that it made very little difference in the end, as the Lakers wouldn't have landed Gasol. But then you remember that Garnett does everything Gasol does, but a lot more. Lakers with Garnett/Kobe/Odom have more strings to their bow than with Gasol.

I still wouldn't do Bynum for Garnett assuming there's no long-term damage to the knee. He's going to be a star in this league for 15 years, at the C position.

Also, Bynum + Kwame doesn't add up salary-wise to Garnett's salary, so they would have had to include young guys like Farmar/Vujacic etc...

Chicago - Once again, could have got Garnett for Deng, Gordon (both of whom might leave before next season btw). Probably not a big deal for Chicago, looking at how they're going in the long run.

I can categorically call BS on this one. McHale wanted a potential franchise player back and neither Deng or Gordon fit that mould (Jefferson/Bynum/Amare do). Nevermind that salaries are nowhere near.

Also, remember that the Wolves knocked back Chandler + Deng + no.2 pick from the Bulls.

Phoenix - this is the one that would sting the most. They could have gone a straight swap, Stoudemire for Garnett. Leaves them with a core of Nash/Marion/Garnett, which imo is infinitely more potent than Nash/Soutdemire/Shaq's corpse. With that Nash/Marion/Garnett trio, you get two top tier defenders, one a perimeter guy, one an inside guy - the best offensive point guard going around. Surrounded by three point shooters and capable veterans.

You have two veteran MVP's who will do anything for a ring, and Marion gets to finally stop worrying about giving up shots to Amare. Best of all, you just blow it all up and start from scratch in two years, instead of giving Amare franchise money and a long deal when he clearly isn't a franchise player, which is almost guaranteed to happen now.

If I was a phoenix fan, and let's be honest if they did this trade I probably would have been, I'd seriously consider killing myself.

Nash/Marion/Garnett wouldn't have gone anywhere near a title. You don't win in the NBA without a no.1 scorer.

I'm not gonna get into the Stoudemire debate with you again, because you'll inevitable bring it back to Chris Webber somehow.


Anyways, the Lakers are the only team that could have had Garnett and had the no.1 scorer to pair him with, but Bynum is simply too young and too talented.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Man, now that Boston has won the bandwagoners have turned the Basketball thread into the Boston Celtics thread.

Quite simple why tade didn't happen really:
Bynum v. KG - How old is Bynum? How old is KG? Bynum is the Laker's next franchise player after Kobe. People tend to forget that in 6 games before Bynum got injured his stats were:
17.3ppg
12.2rpg
2.7apg
2.3bpg
70.0% FG
74.1% FT
29.7mpg
no brainer move IMO. The Lakers are just lucky like hell they didnt do Bynum for Kidd.

Chicago:
Again, there's a reason why they chose to stand pat for Kobe when he asked to be traded, they wanted to rebuild and compete at the same time as they could do that due to being in the East Conference. They wouldn't win a championship with a lineup like this anyway:
C - Noah
PF - KG
SF - Nocioni
SG - Thabo
PG - Kirk
(and basically nothing on the bench)
And it didn't work out bad for the Bulls, at least they'll be getting the #1 pick and Rose.

Phoenix
Amare vs. KG. Potential/Age vs someone who has a questionable years left of him. A team that will be on a decline with Shaq and Nash aging. Put up stats like 25/10 or something since Shaq came... so easily a no brainer to keep Amare.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

I still wouldn't do Bynum for Garnett assuming there's no long-term damage to the knee. He's going to be a star in this league for 15 years, at the C position.

Also, Bynum + Kwame doesn't add up salary-wise to Garnett's salary, so they would have had to include young guys like Farmar/Vujacic etc...

If you gave up Bynum for Garnett, you'd have won the championship imo. But, the Bynum thing is a tough decision in the long run I admit.

I can categorically call BS on this one. McHale wanted a potential franchise player back and neither Deng or Gordon fit that mould (Jefferson/Bynum/Amare do). Nevermind that salaries are nowhere near.

Also, remember that the Wolves knocked back Chandler + Deng + no.2 pick from the Bulls.

I hadn't heard that offer that McHale knocked back - hearing that, i think it's fair to say Chicago weren't really in the running after all.

Nash/Marion/Garnett wouldn't have gone anywhere near a title. You don't win in the NBA without a no.1 scorer.

Detroit did it. Spurs did it. Neither of those teams had any particular scorer or combination of scorers who Garnett/Nash/Marion couldn't match.

I'm not gonna get into the Stoudemire debate with you again, because you'll inevitable bring it back to Chris Webber somehow.

Anyways, the Lakers are the only team that could have had Garnett and had the no.1 scorer to pair him with, but Bynum is simply too young and too talented.

You think Garnett couldn't thrive doing what Amare does on offense? Not to mention Marion would finally have gotten all those extra shots he was after - I think you're drastically under-selling how good Phoenix would be with Garnett.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Phoenix
Amare vs. KG. Potential/Age vs someone who has a questionable years left of him. A team that will be on a decline with Shaq and Nash aging. Put up stats like 25/10 or something since Shaq came... so easily a no brainer to keep Amare.

Amare's statistical output is easily the most over-rated in the NBA. He plays one end of the floor in a fast paced system.

Garnett would have given them some actual defense (apparently 47 year old Shaq was meant to fill this need) on the inside, coupled with Marion's D they would have been a nightmare for the offensively focused Western Conference teams - not to mention Garnett fits that D'Antoni system much better than Shaq does - and Garnett, at least for this year and next, could provide close to what Amare does on O, and substantially more on D.

 

[mdc]

Detroit did it. Spurs did it. Neither of those teams had any particular scorer or combination of scorers who Garnett/Nash/Marion couldn't match.

Detroit did it through incredible defense. No matter how good Marion/Garnett are, you're never going to be a top defensive team with Nash/Barbosa and no true center.

As for the Spurs, each of Duncan/Gino/Parker are better go-to scorers than any of Garnett/Nash/Marion.

You think Garnett couldn't thrive doing what Amare does on offense? Not to mention Marion would finally have gotten all those extra shots he was after - I think you're drastically under-selling how good Phoenix would be with Garnett.

What, you mean roll aggressively to the basket, dunk on people, and constantly finish through contact? No way in hell. It would have been interesting to see just how effective Nash is when his big guy keeps popping out instead of rolling.

As for Marion, the guy simply can't create his own shot. Against quality defensive teams he goes missing.

It would have left Nash with the responsibility of taking over in the 4th quarter of every game, and personally, I wouldn't like to rely on pull-up threes to try and win games in the playoffs.

 

[TheLakeshow]

ask us this question in 10 years when bynum has done his thing..... i never wanted to move bynum for KG, and never will! one reason

LONG TERM SUCCESS, NONE OF THIS 1-3 YEARS BULL DUST!

i think the lakers HO realised this.

 

[Borgsta]

Phoenix are the only team that should have even considered it.

Personally i dont think the Suns should have made the move but they made a move out of desperation at the end and have now royally screwed themselves.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Detroit did it through incredible defense. No matter how good Marion/Garnett are, you're never going to be a top defensive team with Nash/Barbosa and no true center.

As for the Spurs, each of Duncan/Gino/Parker are better go-to scorers than any of Garnett/Nash/Marion.

What, you mean roll aggressively to the basket, dunk on people, and constantly finish through contact? No way in hell. It would have been interesting to see just how effective Nash is when his big guy keeps popping out instead of rolling.

As for Marion, the guy simply can't create his own shot. Against quality defensive teams he goes missing.

It would have left Nash with the responsibility of taking over in the 4th quarter of every game, and personally, I wouldn't like to rely on pull-up threes to try and win games in the playoffs.

You make good points, and I'm happy to concede this one. You're right the Suns probably wouldn't have gone all the way - but the trade definitely would have given them a better chance. I mean, Shaq? Really? That's the answer?

 

[mdc]

You make good points, and I'm happy to concede this one. You're right the Suns probably wouldn't have gone all the way - but the trade definitely would have given them a better chance. I mean, Shaq? Really? That's the answer?

I think you'll find I was as adamant a critic of the Shaq trade as anyone when it happened.

Just ask Look2Me4Guidance

 

[jerry springer]

Thw window is so short for championships,I dont really blame teams for rolling the Dice(worked for Boston),When Shaqs contract expires the Suns can get a replacement in for Nash who is also getting on and should be traded while he has value.

The next 5 years will be owned by the Hornets and Blazers,they both have some serious talent.

 

[mdc]

Thw window is so short for championships,I dont really blame teams for rolling the Dice(worked for Boston),When Shaqs contract expires the Suns can get a replacement in for Nash who is also getting on and should be traded while he has value.

The next 5 years will be owned by the Hornets and Blazers,they both have some serious talent.

The thing is, the Marion contract expired before Shaq's, so it's a move backwards in that respect as well.

Plus, as nice as expiring contracts are in theory, if a player is making 20M/year, he's either:
- not being traded
- a team cancer

The ideal $ for an expiring contract is really about 8M.

Also, I don't disagree with the Hornets/Blazers call, but I'd add the Lakers, Chicago and Utah to the list. All 5 teams don't have a single significant player over 30 years of age.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I think you'll find I was as adamant a critic of the Shaq trade as anyone when it happened.

Just ask Look2Me4Guidance

Oh great here we go again

No way Marion/Nash/Garnett gets the job done in the clutch.

Garnett showed his propensity for midrange jumpers instead of attacking the rim like Stoudemire does. For all of KG's defensive abilities, he can't guard STAT. No one can.

Marion will never be as effective as he was in Phoenix without someone creating for him. His defence is sorely missed granted, but was not the reason we failed in the playoffs.

Hindsight is a great thing. I still wonder how things would have gone if Finley had come to Phoenix instead of the Spurs.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Oh great here we go again

No way Marion/Nash/Garnett gets the job done in the clutch.

Garnett showed his propensity for midrange jumpers instead of attacking the rim like Stoudemire does. For all of KG's defensive abilities, he can't guard STAT. No one can.

Marion will never be as effective as he was in Phoenix without someone creating for him. His defence is sorely missed granted, but was not the reason we failed in the playoffs.

Hindsight is a great thing. I still wonder how things would have gone if Finley had come to Phoenix instead of the Spurs.

Would be interesting though to see if guys like House, Posey and Brown ended up at Phoenix instead of Boston though, had Phoenix pulled the trigger on the trade prior to the season.

Garnett may not be able to guard STAT, but STAT can't guard anyone.

 

[Borgsta]

Garnett may not be able to guard STAT, but STAT can't guard anyone.

Thats a bit harsh. He did pretty well containing Tractor Traylor.

 

[frantelle]

while nash marion and kg sounds great it would have never ever worked

marion wanted out and phx wanted to get rid of him

marion and the other suns players and coaching staff didnt exactly get along but still maintained a professional relationship

 

[celtic_pride]

Thw window is so short for championships,I dont really blame teams for rolling the Dice(worked for Boston),When Shaqs contract expires the Suns can get a replacement in for Nash who is also getting on and should be traded while he has value.

The next 5 years will be owned by the Hornets and Blazers,they both have some serious talent.

Ditto Atlanta, think the Hawks are just only one or two pieces away from becoming really strong ...

BTW The Phoenix trade wouldnt' have worked, as KG said he only wanted to play in Phoenix if Amare was there ...

 

[jerry springer]

Ditto Atlanta, think the Hawks are just only one or two pieces away from becoming really strong ...

BTW The Phoenix trade wouldnt' have worked, as KG said he only wanted to play in Phoenix if Amare was there ...

was going to add atlanta but there is something about them i cant put my finger on to say they will be the goods.maybe their coach,dunno just the vibe I guess, like mabo.

 

[Young Gun #6]

If i was a Lakers fan i would be soooo pissed off if they don't win a championship in the next 4 or 5 years. With the list they have they should get at least 1 championship in the next 4 or 5 seasons.

BTW imagine how good the Lakers side would be if they traded Kobe for Lebron.

It would be good for Lakers because then they wouldn't have a awesome player over 27 and it would test Kobe to see if he can actually win a championship with out any superstars.

Because if Shaq was never born Kobe wouldn't have a championship.

 

[AdamG03]

while nash marion and kg sounds great it would have never ever worked

marion wanted out and phx wanted to get rid of him

marion and the other suns players and coaching staff didnt exactly get along but still maintained a professional relationship

Exactly. One of the deciding factors in the trading out of Marion was that he wanted out. I doubt a trade of Marion for Garnett would have happened.

Either way people saying the suns have royally screwed themselves?

They were going to be in the same position year after year not being able to move far in the offseason without defensive help in the inside and pretty much everywhere.

The appointment of Terry Porter is a good move seeing as he was able to make the Bucks defence work so well when he was head coach there.

 

[Young Gun #6]

And also the drafting of the young gun Lopez who will be a dominate defensive centre in the next 2-3 years with Shaq leaving/leaving IMO.

 

[mdc]

The appointment of Terry Porter is a good move seeing as he was able to make the Bucks defence work so well when he was head coach there.

T-Pozzy's Bucks were in the bottom 10 defensively both of the years he was there.

 

[Young Gun #6]

T-Pozzy's Bucks were in the bottom 10 defensively both of the years he was there.

You have to admit that he didn't have to much talent on d to work with though.

 

[AdamG03]

T-Pozzy's Bucks were in the bottom 10 defensively both of the years he was there.

Sh!te. Sorry i was thinking of defence and i said that but meant to say he took them to the post season.

The Bucks had a promising 2003-04 season with the strong play of rookie point guard T.J. Ford and new coach Terry Porter, until Ford suffered a career-threatening spinal cord contusion, thus sitting out the final 26 games of the season. The Bucks did qualify for the playoffs, however they were defeated by the eventual champion Pistons in the first round.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Bucks

 

[celtic_pride]

I think the KG - Boston trade is a match made in heaven, and the best thing is that most Wolves fans still love him and were rapt for him to get his ring and understand why he left (more cause their owner is a tight wad in the mould of Donald Sterling) and his time was running out to win a ring, but damn I don't think he would have had as big an impact on the other teams if was traded there - I just don't know how Kobe or Amare's Ego would be playing with a bloke so defensively minded as KG ..
He changed the culture of the Celtics as Pierce has said, and he lifted Pierce's game to another level this season, and Ray Ray just become a stronger presence defensivly ...