TheClokes
Cancelled
For a job well done!
Keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work.
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Thankyou Derek Hine
- Thread starter TheClokes
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MiguelRodriguez
Rookie
Been waiting for someone to bring this up. I reckon we have heaps to thank this guy for with the current crop. Need to do some more homework on it, but i'd say with the exception of Egan he really hasn't put a foot wrong. The Thomas and Pendlbury selections are his finest works, with the Clarke project, and Reid and Brown looking like strong decisions also. We'll look back in 5 or 6 years in awe.
How does he rank against recruiters at other clubs?
How does he rank against recruiters at other clubs?
All good in hinesight, of course!!!!!!!!!
I was going to start an appreciation thread today on the great man. He has helped transform our tired slow list into the most exciting young list in the league.
I was going to bag Gerard Sholly for all his f- up's over the years but heard this morning that he was instrumental in Martin Clarke's recruitment, so I partially forgive him.
Thanks Derek, keep up the top work!
I was going to bag Gerard Sholly for all his f- up's over the years but heard this morning that he was instrumental in Martin Clarke's recruitment, so I partially forgive him.
Thanks Derek, keep up the top work!
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Put it in perspective. Hine got quality with early picks in 2005. We don;t know the results of 2007. Some exciting CV's but who knows what will actually be produced. Reid looked promiosing and Dick has look a worthy project. 2004 was nothing to write home about. Rusling may have changed that but who knows now. Where we have done well is later and rookie selections. If Hine has played a major role there then he has done very well. I don't know who does what in that regard. Clarke I suspect is more down to his reputation and the clubs drive to unearth players from all avenues given our resources.
Not criticising Hine but I'm not goint over the top just yet. A bag full of senior players from the 2006 draft would make the world of difference.
Not criticising Hine but I'm not goint over the top just yet. A bag full of senior players from the 2006 draft would make the world of difference.
Brisbane passed on Martin Clarke, so he was lucky to land on our doorstep. We still had to work hard to get him, but bottom line is that we lucked out.
We are lucky to have the best development coaches in the AFL - Alan Richardson and Brad Scott. Derek Hine has done a good job, but the real plaudits belong to Richardson and Scott IMO.
Martin Clarke was fast-tracked, with success, Scott Pendlebury and Heath Shaw were BIG improvers over a short period of time and Tyson Goldsack has exceeded expectations for a first-year player.
Martin Clarke was fast-tracked, with success, Scott Pendlebury and Heath Shaw were BIG improvers over a short period of time and Tyson Goldsack has exceeded expectations for a first-year player.
Mark - i think you have to comment in this way simply because of the way you carried on here earlier in the year.
You posted here with great authority before the season had even started that the pies recruiting was woeful and that malthouse couldn't coach.
even other club's supporters are remarking about how the pies recruiting has been outstanding.
Yeh we were very lucky to Marty Clarke!
and man am I gald we picked him up, he has played 2 games and is already a superstar
No I didn’t.
I am very happy with the vast improvement from the low base. I have said all along though that having the early picks should make significant improvement to the results. As I said above what has been very noteworthy has been the results from the late and rookie selections. I have never been critical of Hine. I have been critical of MM and I am still not a fan. I am pleased that he seems to have less input on recruitment.
posted by MarkT on 23/4/07
"IMO if you aren’t angry at what has happened to our club after having so many early picks and being well placed after 2002 to compile a premiership list then you are just blindly loyal to the point that you are part of the problem. We blew our shot at it and to expect the same people who failed before to succeed this time is irresponsible.
We have a fantastic large and loyal supporter base but we over value our own dramatically and excuse our mistakes habitually. It is one thing to get a few decisions wrong but we have got few right and are far too soft on our own failures. I am at the point now that I almost hope we have an ordinary year and we sack the coach while getting an early draft pick. That’s not what I want to happen but 3 years ago I would have gone ballistic at someone even suggesting. The problem is we have absolutely zero chance of wining a premiership without 15+ list changes on the back of a complete cleanout of the coaching regime and even then we would still be pushing it up hill.
We just aren’t good enough on or off the park.
This is not a reaction to a loss. This is a reaction to continual failure and a lack of accountability. If I go to the AGM and we cop the same pathetic crap as previously I swear I will walk up the stage and throw up on it."
you have no credibility.
"IMO if you aren’t angry at what has happened to our club after having so many early picks and being well placed after 2002 to compile a premiership list then you are just blindly loyal to the point that you are part of the problem. We blew our shot at it and to expect the same people who failed before to succeed this time is irresponsible.
We have a fantastic large and loyal supporter base but we over value our own dramatically and excuse our mistakes habitually. It is one thing to get a few decisions wrong but we have got few right and are far too soft on our own failures. I am at the point now that I almost hope we have an ordinary year and we sack the coach while getting an early draft pick. That’s not what I want to happen but 3 years ago I would have gone ballistic at someone even suggesting. The problem is we have absolutely zero chance of wining a premiership without 15+ list changes on the back of a complete cleanout of the coaching regime and even then we would still be pushing it up hill.
We just aren’t good enough on or off the park.
This is not a reaction to a loss. This is a reaction to continual failure and a lack of accountability. If I go to the AGM and we cop the same pathetic crap as previously I swear I will walk up the stage and throw up on it."
you have no credibility.
He basically said - picking guns with early picks isnt rocket science, and that we should expect Hine to pick guns with those early picks... and while that is true Pendlebury ( who will most likely be this years rising star ) was no way touted a number 5 pick by any other club.. He was also critical of MMs matchday performance and that hes a one trick pony compared to the likes of Sheedy etc
Who mind you got outcoached on Anzac day. Playing Lucas at CHB sure did wonders for his side *cough*
If MarkT was to think our list is somewhat inadequate or average - then one would think that MM has done a fine job so far. If our list is up to par with other contending teams - then one cannot dispute the fact that we have a good side on the right path to winning a flag.... and given that fact supporters will get excited.
dicknose - markt is a passionate fan who doesn't want to get his hopes up...doesnt want the side overestimating its ability and falling short of a premiership.
Who mind you got outcoached on Anzac day. Playing Lucas at CHB sure did wonders for his side *cough*
If MarkT was to think our list is somewhat inadequate or average - then one would think that MM has done a fine job so far. If our list is up to par with other contending teams - then one cannot dispute the fact that we have a good side on the right path to winning a flag.... and given that fact supporters will get excited.
dicknose - markt is a passionate fan who doesn't want to get his hopes up...doesnt want the side overestimating its ability and falling short of a premiership.
Can you read? Where did I state he cant make those comments? What he does his prerogative.
Jabso
Brownlow Medallist
Getting Clarke wasn't that lucky. Getting Clarke was a great achievement by all involved. Brisbane passed on him, too bad that's their mistake, they didn't put enough time or resources into analysing his capabilities or developing. If we passed on Clarke and he was playing the same level of football at another club, we'd be fuming that a club with our resources isn't trying to unearth an Irish gun.
Collingwood should pay this man whatever he wants....he wants 400k a year GIVE IT TO HIM! HE IS THE REASON WHY WE ARE IN THE POSITION WE ARE IN.
Bloody Noel Judkins was suppose to be the best recruiter in australia coming from the bombers, he was just a big big MISTAKE!!!!
Derek Hine...thankyou
Bloody Noel Judkins was suppose to be the best recruiter in australia coming from the bombers, he was just a big big MISTAKE!!!!
Derek Hine...thankyou
Look dicknose you have picked out a post among many. It doesn’t quite do what you want it to but no doubt it was one of many that had some criticism from me. Fact is I said all along we’d be about where we were last year and that wasn’t good enough given where we came from a few years back. We arsed up list management terribly. Well here we are right where we were last year. It looks better and probably is better because some kids are coming through. How good they will be who knows but it is promising and exciting to watch and gives me cause for optimism. Look at what I said about Hine’s performance though and tell me what doesn’t ring true? It’s what I said at the start of the year.
Just what is the problem with that? I stand 100% by that. Hine has come into the team and appears to have made a difference although it’s hard to say how much is Hine’s doing.
15+ needs reassessment. Some of the kids have had some exposure and look like being at least handy and mostly better than that. Understand that there will be 5+ list changes annually even if we have a strong list though. I’ll make it 8 to 10. As for coaching, I still think MM has severe list management flaws and limited match day tricks. I think MM is on train tracks. I don’t think I have said he can’t coach at all. I have said he isn’t the one I think will coach us to a flag. I have also said his list management skills are poor because he is a poor judge. IMO that is a major job requirement.
We have made strides but frankly it is still true. Our list has holes and our coaching even last week was supplemented. Who doing the ruck coaching? Lets see how we fare in trade week this year.
Been to an AGM?
Think that if you like. I’m not chasing credibility from you or for that matter anyone else.
toommy
All Australian
- Jul 13, 2006
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how do you know he has less input on recruitment or had any in the years before on under 18 picks not ready made players.
For a start I said seems and I base that among other things from various comments made publicly by Neil Balme between around 2000 when he spoke about MM's directive re the types of mids he wanted and last year when he spoke about the football department etc restructure. I’ll leave it at public information.
I haven't come to have another MM debate though. Most know my views. You've made yours clear too.
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toommy
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- Jul 13, 2006
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you don't spend over 20 years as a coach if you have poor list management skills or poor coaching skills. i would be more likely to side with a bloke who has played at the highest level and coached premierships than a couch potatoe who probably doesn't know which side of a football is up PS we know you buy a membership
You do realise that Noel Judkins is still one of our primary recruiters. Hine is the face, Noel is pretty much his equal.
The thing about Noel's stuff ups from 2001-2003, is that we assume a number of things if we stick the boots in:
1. That he had absolute say over the types we drafted during that period.
2. That he had the resources we currently have. In 2001, we were a couple of years out of the pit of hell. Spending money chasing a Tadhg Kenelley wasn't exactly in our reach during that period. Nor was having a permanent WA recruiter to source some rough diamonds like Shannon Cox & Sharrod Wellingham. Nor did he have the likes of Richardson and Scott aiding in the development of the selections.
3. That he doesn't himself realise his errors (his illness may have been a result of this in itself).
4. That he can't learn from his errors.
What Hine has brought in after coaching Prahran, was an enthusiasm with thinking outside the square and employing new recruiting techniques. I think the general methodology is that you can teach a kid certain footy tricks, but you can't teach them certain physical attributes. This is not the case for all of them, but there is a decidedly different theme generally.
I think we need to take it a bit easier on Judkins. He's been there for 10 years now and we've had some good spells of recruiting, and some good times, and as happens, he's had a bad section to his time, resulting in some darker times.
This is one of the most painful things for me to say and i am only just coming able to say this but here goes
I am glad that Brad Scott is at Collingwood and I don't want him to leave in the next 5 years at least.
That was hard work but it is in the open now. Whats do you guys think? He does a lot of work and study for the club
I am glad that Brad Scott is at Collingwood and I don't want him to leave in the next 5 years at least.
That was hard work but it is in the open now. Whats do you guys think? He does a lot of work and study for the club
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He's done well. If he can get us 2 quality ruckmen in the upcoming drafts then I will be estatic.
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Stuff that - What you're saying is completely without perspective.
Saying that it was all due to the picks implies that those players picked themselves, or that anyone with the Herald Sun draft guide could have done the same.
Contrary to that, Hine bucked the mould and went completely left field to select Thomas at #2 and Pendlebury at #5, when conventional wisdom would have suggested that Ellis at #2 and Nathan Jones at #5 might have been the "safe" choices.
He deserves all the credit in the world for seeing the evenness of the draft and not just going for who everyone else said were the top prospects on the board.
I think the idea is that a Ferrari can be modified to drive through the mud, but a 4WD Ute will never go 200kph.
Or, alternatively, you can dirty up a diamond, but you can't polish a ****.