Thankyou Derek Hine

[TheBushranger]

The recruiting has been excellent from the 04 draft onwards.

I think this was about the time Malthouse had less say and/or realised that recruiting players like Shackleton and David King would not advance the collingwood football club.

The selection of Pendlebury at 5 has been our greatest recruiting achievement this decade. Not many recruiters at all had him going so highly.

I still believe we did extremely well in the 04 draft with Egan, Rusling and Cloke, however some people will disagree with me.

06 draft looks excellent at the moment, with Ben Reid looking impressive on debut and Dick, Goldsack and Clarke all making impacts.

In the future, we have Nathan Brown and John Anthony as our two main players from these drafts who have not debuted.

Credit must go to the recruiting department- we have turned around our list in 3 drafts, whereas teams like Richmond and Carlton never seem to be able to turn around their lists despite all the years they spend at the bottom.

 

[mdc]

Hine (and the rest of the recruiting staff - it's not a one-man job) should be roundly applauded for doing a good job, in particular with the Pendlebury pick, which was obviously brilliant...(will easily be best of that draft when it's all done...Thomas and a couple of others in the class below him).

But I think even more credit should be given to the coaching staff and the football department in general. I think we can all agree that our rate of success with late/rookie picks has been remarkable recently. There's only three possible explanations for this:
a) We're just going through a lucky stretch
b) Collingwood's recruiting staff is SOOO much better than others that it can routinely find diamonds in the rough with every pick when other clubs are hit and miss
c) Our coaches/staff in conjunction with our best-in-league facilities does a better job that other clubs in development

Option a) is likely true to some extent, (and in fact a sample of 20 picks or however many Hine has made is insufficient for any sort of accurate evaluation). However, for the purpose of this discussion let's assume all luck is distributed equally.

Option b) is virtually impossible given how much scrutiny young players are under these days

Option c) The most likely explanation (if we assume all luck being equal).


So basically, let's hope this is not just a lucky stretch, but that we do indeed have the best development team around...and our success with young players continues into the future.

 

[PieLebo87]

Been waiting for someone to bring this up. I reckon we have heaps to thank this guy for with the current crop. Need to do some more homework on it, but i'd say with the exception of Egan he really hasn't put a foot wrong. The Thomas and Pendlbury selections are his finest works, with the Clarke project, and Reid and Brown looking like strong decisions also. We'll look back in 5 or 6 years in awe.

Guys, again, I think we need to settle a bit. Alright, we got Thomas and Pendlebury, and they look the goods. But Brown hasn't shown much, and Reid has played one game, lets not speak about 'potential' because we havent seen anything yet. Clarke was more a series of Collingwood officials being interested, it wasnt just Hines going after him and getting him.

So lets not give someone too much credit, nothing has been shown yet. I think his biggest challenge lies in this years draft, we need a ruckman more then anything, lets see if he can utilise this years picks and land us the final pieces of the puzzle, which we're hoping will be enough to build a Premiership team, and a Collingwood era. Because its not done yet, we might have a group of talented youngsters, but its nowhere near done yet, we need the lot from this years draft too.

If you want to give credit out, its due for the likes of Alan Richardson and Brad Scott, they are the ones who have helped with the development of these kids.

 

[MarkT]

you don't spend over 20 years as a coach if you have poor list management skills or poor coaching skills. i would be more likely to side with a bloke who has played at the highest level and coached premierships than a couch potatoe who probably doesn't know which side of a football is up PS we know you buy a membership

You can side with whomever you like. MM has spent 20 years coaching for 2 flags from a largely inherited list nearly 2 decades ago, he has lost more grand finals then he has won and his winning record at Collingwood is just over 50% while he has had probably the best set of draft picks of any club in the time he has been at Collingwood. Neil Daniher was too long at Melbourne IMO but his Melbourne record stacks up against Malthouse’s Collingwood record. Malthouse isn’t the worst coach by any stretch but that’s completely irrelevant. He has already failed. The test is premierships – particularly when you’ve been at it nearing 8 years.

 

[MarkT]

Stuff that - What you're saying is completely without perspective.

Saying that it was all due to the picks implies that those players picked themselves, or that anyone with the Herald Sun draft guide could have done the same.

Not at all. Quite to the contrary in fact. I am saying with picks like 2 & 5 in strong drafts you will get quality much more often than with picks starting at 16 in weak drafts. The latter takes a lot more ability. I am not being critical of Hine I am just saying you have to have some perspective about what Hine has achieved.

Contrary to that, Hine bucked the mould and went completely left field to select Thomas at #2 and Pendlebury at #5, when conventional wisdom would have suggested that Ellis at #2 and Nathan Jones at #5 might have been the "safe" choices.

I agree and said as much at the time. He rolled the dice and we’d have to wait and see. Well now a year and half later I and most others think he has made good choices. He likewise could have selected numerous other players and we’d still say he made some good choices though.

He deserves all the credit in the world for seeing the evenness of the draft and not just going for who everyone else said were the top prospects on the board.

Quite frankly that is precisely the job requirement. He is a recruiter not an internet averager of opinions. He should be expected not to simply go along with phantom drafts and armature assessments. He then has to live and die by how hindsight judges his decisions.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Not at all. Quite to the contrary in fact. I am saying with picks like 2 & 5 in strong drafts you will get quality much more often than with picks starting at 16 in weak drafts. The latter takes a lot more ability. .

Top 5 aint easy either. Ball at StKilda, as good as he is, aint no Chris Judd. Its harder to get it right with top five because of the high expectations. You dont want a good ordinary player, you want a star, and to go left-field to do that takes incredible guts.

If he'd recruited by popular consensus, we'd not have taken Thomas or Pendlebury with those picks. We'd have Ellis and Kennedy or something like that running around in the VFL.

 

[MarkT]

Top 5 aint easy either. Ball at StKilda, as good as he is, aint no Chris Judd.

That is true but he is still good. The misses are still hits more often than later in the draft.

You dont want a good ordinary player, you want a star, and to go left-field to do that takes incredible guts.

I’m not arguing with that but I do expect it. If he aint got guts he aint the man for the job. As I keep saying the test isn’t average performance it is outstanding performance. We are trying to win premierships not battle out honourable losses and run second like we have so often.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Not at all. Quite to the contrary in fact. I am saying with picks like 2 & 5 in strong drafts you will get quality much more often than with picks starting at 16 in weak drafts. The latter takes a lot more ability.

Perhaps that is the case, but that also suggests that he hasn't done much better than the previous regime with later picks as well.

Removing all 1st and 2nd round picks and F/S selections, Hine has drafted Adam Iacobucci, Ben Davies, Harry O'Brien, John Anthony, Sam Iles, Alan Toovey, Danny Nicholls, Shannon Cox, Brad Dick, Tyson Goldsack, Sharrod Wellingham, Brent Macaffer and Martin Clarke.

Only removing Judkins' F/S picks from 2001-2003, he drafted Richard Cole, Tom Davidson, Mark McGough, Dane Swan, Tristen Walker, Justin Crow, Andrew R. Hill, Nick Stone, Mark Dubyna, Leith Teakle, Bo Nixon, Luke Shackleton, David King, Matthew Lokan, Luke Mullins, Nick Maxwell, Jason Roe, Tom Hooker, Steve Eichner, Billy Morrison, Brent Hall and Julian Rowe.

Now, I'm not alone in thinking that Hine has made a significant improvement over ALL areas of our recruiting, rather than just benefitting from higher picks, considering that from the 3rd round and back he has been better than Judkins was in total.

Over Judkins' period, Dane Swan and Nick Maxwell stand out as the only useful players we got. I suppose you could give him credit for spotting the talent in Julian Rowe as well, much as you could say that Tom Davidson almost certainly would have made it if not for injury, but that's still only 4/22 players that turned out good.

From the 3rd round and back for Hine, I would already be prepared to say that Harry, Cox, Dick, Goldsack and Clarke could be marked as successes.

Granted, we haven't had as much time to see if that's the case, but at the same time all of those guys bar Iacobucci and Davies still have time to prove themselves. I'd imagine that from what I've seen, at least one or two out of Anthony, Iles, Toovey and Wellingham will end up making it.

As I say, it's belittling his accomplishments to suggest that he has benefitted from having better picks.

Quite frankly that is precisely the job requirement. He is a recruiter not an internet averager of opinions. He should be expected not to simply go along with phantom drafts and armature assessments. He then has to live and die by how hindsight judges his decisions.

But that's exactly the point - We are not just talking about what people on the internet, or even people in the media have said. Other recruiting managers have said that they thought we got it wrong (*cough*Greg Miller*cough*), or like Hawthorn did, that they rated Xavier Ellis as the best in the draft, which means they would have taken him over Thomas, and you can count on one finger the number of clubs that would have drafted Scott Pendlebury at #5. I seem to remember both Kevin Sheedy and Scott Clayton making snide remarks about our drafting as well.

Professional recruiters were criticising his picks, or suggesting that they wouldn't have made them, and now he's made them look foolish. He didn't just go against the opinions of the uneducated masses, which would seem like a pretty smart move - He went against the opinions of most of the other professional recruiters as well.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The selection of Pendlebury at 5 has been our greatest recruiting achievement this decade. Not many recruiters at all had him going so highly.

I agree fundamentally with what you're saying, but traditionally the idea in recruiting is to take players lower in a draft than what you think they're worth.

How I wish Leith Teakle had panned out... what a name!

 

[MarkT]

As I say, it's belittling his accomplishments to suggest that he has benefitted from having better picks.

Please look at what I have said. You own post downgrades the assessment of Hine but in reality I NEVER said he hasn’t done a good job and I certainly have said he is a damn site better than what we had. I’m just after some perspective. We have some promising players – I’ve seen that before. We have drafted some apparently serious talent – with early picks like most other clubs tend to achieve. Some don’t of course. I am not yet going over the top re Hine. Just like I’m not yet proclaiming a new dawn for Collingwood. We have not done a hell of a lot yet and other clubs look to have promising lists as well. For us to win premierships we have to outperform EVERYONE. That is the standard. Everything else is the mediocrity of our last 5 decades.

 

[the_champ_2004]

I don't know a lot about the scouting and recruiting department but all i can say is that Collingwood has come a long way since King, Rowe, Nixon, Billy Morrison, Walker and the likes. But then again we are investing more money into scouting and recruitment than any other club in the league.

 

[Coin_Toss]

But then again we are investing more money into scouting and recruitment than any other club in the league.

Good point. You'd think we could spot more talent than any other club in the fortunate position we are in financially. I still stand by what I have said; Alan Richardson and Brad Scott have been just as good as Derek Hine - if not better - and they are the unknown heroes of our improvement from last year.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

How I wish Leith Teakle had panned out... what a name!

Dick, Cox and Goldsack not good enough for you?

 

[MarkT]

Dick, Cox and Goldsack not good enough for you?

Bing back the Fanny!

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344755

 

[toommy]

Please look at what I have said. You own post downgrades the assessment of Hine but in reality I NEVER said he hasn’t done a good job and I certainly have said he is a damn site better than what we had. I’m just after some perspective. We have some promising players – I’ve seen that before. We have drafted some apparently serious talent – with early picks like most other clubs tend to achieve. Some don’t of course. I am not yet going over the top re Hine. Just like I’m not yet proclaiming a new dawn for Collingwood. We have not done a hell of a lot yet and other clubs look to have promising lists as well. For us to win premierships we have to outperform EVERYONE. That is the standard. Everything else is the mediocrity of our last 5 decades.

no one got a gun to your head. arsenic will solve your problem i know it will solve mine

 

[MarkT]

I don’t have a problem. I am enjoyinmg the season. You don’t have to agree with what I say but if you don’t like it just keep the childish stuff to yourself and stick to arguing the points.

 

[toommy]

I don’t have a problem. I am enjoyinmg the season. You don’t have to agree with what I say but if you don’t like it just keep the childish stuff to yourself and stick to arguing the points.

but you haven't enjoyed the past 5 decades?

 

[Masked Magician]

15 years on, great service, his first draft was the Thomas + Pendles draft.

Looks to have nailed some selections over the last 24-36 months.

 

[jmac70]

Epic bumper

 

[Pistol Night]

Epic bumper

Essendon hasn’t won a final since 3 years before this thread was started

 

[PieLebo87]

Drafting KPFs won’t be remembered as a great strength of Derek Hine’s.

 

[Markfs]

gee people were so polite and positive in those days.....what was wrong with them?... timothy had a sense of humour too

 

[Kappa]

15 years for 1 flag.

Not exactly a resounding success

 

[Jonno94]

I thought this thread was a goodbye to Hine, got excited for a second.

 

[jonbe54]

Gotta laugh.

The haters will never ever admit error.