The 2nd Division Thread (proposal)

[Munga]

AAFC Chairman Nick Galatas: “Your next expansion club should be from the division below”

In a conversation with Soccerscene, AAFC Chairman Nick Galatas discusses how the National Second Division is shaping ahead of a 2024 deadline.

www.soccerscene.com.au

 

[Munga]

'We can add value': Football Australia to announce second-tier comp plans 'very soon'

The Australian football community have long debated the need for a second-tier domestic competition beneath the A-League.

www.canberratimes.com.au

Johnson wants the competition to be linked with NPL clubs from every state and territory "as a start".
"We will have a second-tier competition that will be played in winter"

 

[typeclub]

South Melbourne will be huge if they get in

 

[Munga]

South Melbourne will be huge if they get in

Yeah, surely they would. I'd put money on it, if I were a gambling man.

Most will come from here, with the possibility of new entities as well:

 

[Andonis1997]

Yeah, surely they would. I'd put money on it, if I were a gambling man.

Most will come from here, with the possibility of new entities as well:


View attachment 1573822

If I was to take a punt on at least 14 clubs out of this group, I'd go:
Adelaide City
APIA
Avondale
Bentleigh
Heidelberg
Marconi
Melbourne Knights
Oakleigh
Peninsula
Perth
South Hobart
South Melbourne
Sydney Olympic
Wollongong

I don't think Sydney United's antics helped them in the Australia Cup, and the other SA clubs will be overlooked, especially West Torrens-Birkalla considering they're now in the second division. MetroStars I think could make the jump, but we'll wait and see.

 

[Munga]

If I was to take a punt on at least 14 clubs out of this group, I'd go:
Adelaide City
APIA
Avondale
Bentleigh
Heidelberg
Marconi
Melbourne Knights
Oakleigh
Peninsula
Perth
South Hobart
South Melbourne
Sydney Olympic
Wollongong

I don't think Sydney United's antics helped them in the Australia Cup, and the other SA clubs will be overlooked, especially West Torrens-Birkalla considering they're now in the second division. MetroStars I think could make the jump, but we'll wait and see.

The plan was to start with 12 teams, but who knows if they'll actually do that, could be more or less.
And it sounds like they're going ahead with teams from every region, so one from Canberra and northern NSW will be there as well.
Going to be tough trying to narrow it down to 12, some good teams will miss out but makes it interesting for them to push for promotion the following season.
It's a shame the Comets didn't jump in straight away. There is a clear top four in SA, so any of Campbelltown, MetroStars or City could make it. Preston are kicking butt on and off the park, I think FA would be keen to get them in even though they aren't NPL1. Murmurs of possible mergers too.

That list by federation:
QLD: Peninsula, Sunshine Coast, Wynnum
NNSW: Edgeworth
NSW: Olympic, Rockdale, 58, APIA, Wollongong, Marconi
ACT: Gungahlin, Croatia
VIC: Bentleigh, Altona, Caroline Springs, Bulleen, Knights, Preston, Avondale, Hume, Heidelberg, Oakleigh, South
TAS: South Hobart
SA: City, Campbelltown, MetroStars, WTB
WA: Bayswater, Perth

Some of those already pick themselves. Maybe Peninsula, Edgeworth, South Hobart, Perth, and one from ACT (I'll say Gungahlin). That leaves seven spots for NSW, VIC, SA and any new entities/mergers. Wollongong and South Melbourne would be high up there. Cambelltown, Heidelberg and Sydney Olympic have banked the most points in their feds in recent history. I wouldn't be surpised if there's a second team from SA (I'll say City), in which case I'd finish with three from VIC and two from NSW (as another two from NNSW and ACT is enough from that region). So I'm left with one more to choose from VIC... I think this is where I throw Preston in.

I'd be really excited to see that! It just needs to happen. If it only lasts a few years, so be it. But what if it succeeds?!

They're looking at social media numbers too. So if you add up their various followers (facebook, instagram etc.) it might give a hint who they favour.

 

[TommyD13]

Very much of the view that any NSD should be a summer competition (or the ALM become a winter comp but that won't happen). We need our leagues to be aligned. If we simply started the NSD towards the end of 2023, for a 2023/24, we could also delay the start of the NPL to get the two competitions, plus the ALM, aligned. Below is a rough way in which we could get to a model of a fully connected pyramid in one decade. Who says no?

Season	A-League	NSD	NPL
2023/24		Establish with 12 teams	Transition to winter season + 8 Team Finals Series for all state champions
2024/25	Add Team 13	Promote Team 13
2025/26	Add Team 14	Promote Team 14
2026/27	Add Team 15	Promote Team 15
2027/28	Add Team 16	Promote Team 16
2028/29
2029/30		Relegation playoff v NPL Champion`	Promotion playoff for Finals Series Winner v 16th NSD
2030/31		Automatic relegation + relegation playoff with NPL Runner-Up	Automatic promotion for champions + promotion playoff for runners-up v 15th NSD
2031/32	Relegation Playoff for 16th v NSD Champion	Promotion Playoff v 16th ALM
2032/33	Automatic Relegation for 16th + Relegation Playoff for 15th v NSD Runner Up	Automatic Promotion for Champion + Promotion Playoff for Runner Up v 15th ALM

 

[mcgarnacle]

So the biggest club in the country can't turn a profit, yet the mongs at FFA are deliberating a second division?

This isn't Europe, we don't have the supporters to facilitate it.

 

[Marcel Proust]

So the biggest club in the country can't turn a profit, yet the mongs at FFA are deliberating a second division?

This isn't Europe, we don't have the supporters to facilitate it.

There are many supporters for the old nsl and state league clubs.

If they are not excluded in a racist manner they will come

 

[acm21]

So the biggest club in the country can't turn a profit, yet the mongs at FFA are deliberating a second division?

This isn't Europe, we don't have the supporters to facilitate it.

The clubs have support, we had 30k plus goto three games over the weekend.
Just because one club goes all in on the football department doesn't mean that clubs can't make money or atleast be a going concern. the 2nd division will create talent and help fund these clubs, more will gofron the 2nd div to Europe and just skip the a liga.
12 teams is not enough and the jump between npl and a liga is too big, and easily half the aliga clubs don't take much care in junior pathways. The 2nd div will cure a lot of the problems that exist in Australian Football pathways.

 

[Marcel Proust]

The plan was to start with 12 teams, but who knows if they'll actually do that, could be more or less.
And it sounds like they're going ahead with teams from every region, so one from Canberra and northern NSW will be there as well.
Going to be tough trying to narrow it down to 12, some good teams will miss out but makes it interesting for them to push for promotion the following season.
It's a shame the Comets didn't jump in straight away. There is a clear top four in SA, so any of Campbelltown, MetroStars or City could make it. Preston are kicking butt on and off the park, I think FA would be keen to get them in even though they aren't NPL1. Murmurs of possible mergers too.

That list by federation:
QLD: Peninsula, Sunshine Coast, Wynnum
NNSW: Edgeworth
NSW: Olympic, Rockdale, 58, APIA, Wollongong, Marconi
ACT: Gungahlin, Croatia
VIC: Bentleigh, Altona, Caroline Springs, Bulleen, Knights, Preston, Avondale, Hume, Heidelberg, Oakleigh, South
TAS: South Hobart
SA: City, Campbelltown, MetroStars, WTB
WA: Bayswater, Perth

Some of those already pick themselves. Maybe Peninsula, Edgeworth, South Hobart, Perth, and one from ACT (I'll say Gungahlin). That leaves seven spots for NSW, VIC, SA and any new entities/mergers. Wollongong and South Melbourne would be high up there. Cambelltown, Heidelberg and Sydney Olympic have banked the most points in their feds in recent history. I wouldn't be surpised if there's a second team from SA (I'll say City), in which case I'd finish with three from VIC and two from NSW (as another two from NNSW and ACT is enough from that region). So I'm left with one more to choose from VIC... I think this is where I throw Preston in.

I'd be really excited to see that! It just needs to happen. If it only lasts a few years, so be it. But what if it succeeds?!

They're looking at social media numbers too. So if you add up their various followers (facebook, instagram etc.) it might give a hint who they favour.

South is south Melbourne ?

 

[acm21]

South is south Melbourne ?

Yeah south would be south Melbourne, that's the list of clubs in the aafc group who have been pushing for the second div. Difficult to say who would get in, depends on who is able to afford it and any non npl/new sides who are interested.

A nsw team in the south, along with nnsw side. 2 or 3 up across qld, hopefully atleast 2 in each state, obviously more in Vic and Sydney because of population.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Yeah south would be south Melbourne, that's the list of clubs in the aafc group who have been pushing for the second div. Difficult to say who would get in, depends on who is able to afford it and any non npl/new sides who are interested.

A nsw team in the south, along with nnsw side. 2 or 3 up across qld, hopefully atleast 2 in each state, obviously more in Vic and Sydney because of population.

I know most of their fans are dead , but it'd be a real shame to have a division 2 and not include south Melbourne imho

 

[acm21]

I Think this is the best option for a second division so it's a proper national league from the start. I think that if a more regional location can be chosen that would make it interesting.

2 regional nsw (Hunter and south Coast)
1 act (or just outside)
3 qld (bris, gc/sunshine Coast, north qld)
2 SA
2 wa
1 tas
3-4 syd (inner Syd, west, south west and north)
3-4 Vic

 

[Munga]

I know most of their fans are dead bit it's be a real shame to have a division 2 and not include south Melbourne imho

They have the most social media followers by a country mile. As that's one of the criteria, I think South are 99% already in.

 

[Munga]

Football Australia opens expressions of interest for National Second Tier Men's Competition

Football Australia has formally commenced its process to create a National Second Tier Men’s competition currently earmarked to commence in March 2024. Football Australia has today invited all interested parties wishing to participate in the yet to be named, National Second Tier, to respond to...

www.footballaustralia.com.au

 

[typeclub]

s**t proposal but better than nothing. Brain dead FA trying to bring in another locked in league without promotion and relegation, but at least leaving the door ajar for it in the future.

As long as they have real clubs it will be better than the A-League.

 

[Munga]

s**t proposal but better than nothing. Brain dead FA trying to bring in another locked in league without promotion and relegation, but at least leaving the door ajar for it in the future.

Yeah, not a fan of the locked league at all. Not what was in the proposal either. It will have to open up eventually.

 

[Andonis1997]

Someone close to the SA NPL that I know said Campbelltown City will apply for it, as the owners are rich - not West Adelaide or Adelaide City.

Potentially in the future, but funds are the major issue for both clubs.

 

[Munga]

Someone close to the SA NPL that I know said Campbelltown City will apply for it, as the owners are rich - not West Adelaide or Adelaide City.

Potentially in the future, but funds are the major issue for both clubs.

West not a surprise, aren't they still building a stadium after all these years?
Surprised City haven't, how could they be short of cash?
Any word on MetroStars?

 

[Andonis1997]

West not a surprise, aren't they still building a stadium after all these years?
Surprised City haven't, how could they be short of cash?
Any word on MetroStars?

Yes they are (still a horrible decision to build out that way fwiw) but they've also changed a few key members on their board so they're still getting their bearings. The person said West's strategy was to survive at least one year in the top division, then reassess.

City just don't have the funding the other clubs have. They'd have the appetite for sure, but they just don't want to go under.

West Torrens-Birkalla is more likely than MetroStars. He said you go to MetroStars' ground as an away fan in SA and you outnumber the home fans

 

[GC2015]

Seems like the 2nd Division is going to happen but the question we're all asking is which state league clubs will be included...

I do wonder whether the A-League will try to right the wrongs to some degree and include clubs from Gold Coast, Auckland and/or Townsville just to acknowledge the defunct A-League clubs and give them another chance in a league where there shouldn't be as much financial/media stress. Gold Coast United is the only defunct A-League team that still exists to this day so I would have thought they have a good shot at getting into the 2nd Division. Not sure about Auckland or Townsville.

Then you have to consider whether you go down the path of including the old NSL clubs. Is that what's best for this competition or do you try to avoid it like they tried to do so desperately with the A-League? If you do want to include them then you'd have to think South Melbourne (Greek), Melbourne Knights (Croatian), Sydney Olympic (Greek), Marconi (Italian), Sydney City (Jewish), Adelaide City (Italian) and Wollongong would be instant inclusions as the most successful NSL clubs.

I think Football Australia needs to be really careful that they don't just overload the 2nd Division with teams based in Melbourne and Sydney because then you eventually risk the A-League being overrun by teams from those cities and not having top level representation across the country shortly after promotion-relegation is introduced. Therefore I think you have to add at least one other team from Brisbane and Perth to decrease the chances of that happening and that probably means Brisbane City/Strikers and Perth SC get in. Then to round out a national 2nd Division I'd also add Tasmania and Canberra which probably means South Hobart and Canberra United get in.

So I've got a 12 team 2nd Division comprising of:

New South Wales (4)
Marconi
Sydney City
Sydney Olympic
Wollongong

Victoria (2)
Melbourne Knights
South Melbourne

Queensland (2)
Brisbane City/Strikers
Gold Coast United

South Australia (1)
Adelaide City

Western Australia (1)
Perth SC

ACT (1)
Canberra United

Tasmania (1)
South Hobart

 

[giggler99]

Interesting tells me they haven’t had a big uptake.

 

[acm21]

Interesting tells me they haven’t had a big uptake.

Agent aleague isn't a great source.

The npl clubs had a meeting with 35 teams tonight to go through the eoi process. I think mergers are being talked about, but if they occur they something else.

 

[Munga]

The 30 AAFC clubs + 5 others yet to be annouced: