the afl & alternate guernseys

[mcgarnacle]

excerpt from realfooty.theage.com.au

Cats to rethink alternate strip

Geelong has called on the style police to review its unpopular "clash" guernsey.

Slazenger began designing three or four alternative alternate strips after the dark blue jumper worn by the Cats against Collingwood and the Kangaroos last season prompted more than 100 complaint emails from supporters watching the games.

Geelong chief executive Brian Cook told last night's annual meeting that while the club would continue to wear a distinctive guernsey when playing similarly coloured clubs, the design required attention.

"The alternate jumper obviously wasn't a popular one. We still believe we need an alternate guernsey, because there is a definite clash when we play Collingwood and North Melbourne, and the people who will tell you that more than anyone are the players," Cook said.

He said the Cats would wear the dark blue strip only once next year, against the Magpies in round 15, and noted that any revised design must adhere to the club's constitution, which demands any new guernsey be "predominantly blue and in a striped fashion".

"There are some real constraints about what we can do. We'll use the jumper only once next year against Collingwood, in a Friday night game, and Slazenger are currently developing three or four alternatives for us to look at," Cook said.

"The important point for us would be to ensure that there isn't a clash between jumpers. And that it has some viewer satisfaction that is a bit better than we have at the moment."
-end

why are the cats going to all the effort? theirs is not the only guernsey that clashes with another club. richmond, carlton, essendon, melbourne & st kilda all clash with one another and I really don't see any of them (ex saints) making the effort to avoid clashes. there should be a directive from the afl whereby the relative clubs are instructed to take to the field in a strip as to avoid a clash. Until then, each club (inc the expansion teams) should stand their ground and take to the field in their normal strips. alternate strips will probably be the norm someday but, until then, bugger it.

 

[dogsbody]

The home team plays in all-white. The visiting team plays in all-black. Both teams have bands in their club colours on the collars of the jumpers, as side bands on the shorts and on the cuffs of their socks. What could be fairer ? Problem solved.

And while we are at it, a few more changes to accomodate television. Reduce the number of players. 36 is too many - say 11 per side. Reduce the size of the ground. It is too difficult to pick up where the ball is on television. Make the ground retangular - neater. Replace the football with a round ball - the variable bounce makes it too hard for the camermen. Get rid of the behinds - too confusing, especially for non maths-science types. Reduce the value of a goal to 2 points - multiples of 6 is too difficult for the viewer. Introduce a cross bar to make scoring more difficult - all these goals interrupt the flow of the game. The throwing-the-ball rule and diving on the ball is too confusing - forbid the use of hands except for the full back. Now isn't that a much better game ?

 

[Docker_Brat]

Clashing colours would be outstanding. Purple v Orange, Red v Green etc.

The fans would love it! Make it easier for them to purge their rancid hot dogs at the ground.

 

[gold cup 1996]

I have nothing against changing the design of a jumper in a clash of jumpers match, but when it comes to changing traditional colours I hate it.

I know for many years many people had trouble when North played Collingwood both wearing mainly white jumpers with either black or blue stripes.

Since about 1998 I think it may have been, I have had no trouble sorting out the sides because we had worn a mainly white jumper with a blue Kangaroo on the front & Collingwood were mainly black with their white stripes, although in 2000 we wore that controversial 1 off loud orange jumper.

This year though it was back to the old days of both teams wearing striped jumpers & again the confusion was on.

I must say a good tip for St Kilda & I don't want people to take this the wrong way, when you play Essendon, Carlton & Collingwood isn't it, instead of wearing that horrible yellow jumper, wear your herritage jumper no colour clash because it was mainly white from memory, the other teams are either mainly black or navy blue.

When Essendon & Melbourne play, I must say it might be a bit more controversial because I know both sides love their traditional jumpers, but maybe Melbourne can wear their royal blue jumper which they wore in the 70's & good part of the 80's or something I don't know.

 

[ComicStoreGuy]

Originally posted by gold cup 1996
I must say a good tip for St Kilda & I don't want people to take this the wrong way, when you play Essendon, Carlton & Collingwood isn't it, instead of wearing that horrible yellow jumper, wear your herritage jumper no colour clash because it was mainly white from memory, the other teams are either mainly black or navy blue.

The herritage jumper at the start 2004 will become a regular part of the uniform for the saints.

 

[Fire]

Im fairly passionate about this topic, mostly because i am amazed by the complete stupidity driving it.

Frstly, i think that the clashing topic is way overated. ALthough i do have some very simple points that will help lessen the 'difficulties' some people may encounter while trying to figure out which jumper is Saint Kildas and which jumper is Fremantles.

1.)SHORTS!!! am I the only one who finds the 'white shorts for the away team' attitude glaringly brainless? Nothing annoys me more than watching Essendon play Saint Kilda in white shorts. Yeah, it sure helps the colour clashing problem to add white to Essendons colours. Other idiotic clashes created when teams are forced to wear white shorts include:
Collingwood V Carlton
Saint Kilda V Melbourne
West Coast V Carlton
Geelong V Carlton
Hawthawn V West Coast
Saint Kilda V Richmond

And thats just off the top of my head.
Sydney never wear white shorts. Why make everyone else?

2.) STOP TEAMS CHANGING OR MAKING SPECIAL CLASH JUMPERS!!! This is ewhat caused this crap in the first place. If Melbourne, Carlton and West COast didnt change their navy blue to a shade of black then a lot of current headaches would be solved.
Look at Geelongs attept at a clash gersey. How come not one person had the vision to see that by adding royal blue to their jumper would make it MORE difficut in their away game against north? ESPECIALLY since they were also wearing white shorts.

3.) INVERT!!! If all else fails then make the away side invert their colours.

Tha way I see how this could work is get every away team use their lightest colour on their shorts and invert their jumper so that their lightest colour is predominaint in clash games.
i.e. If Essendon played Carlton, then Carlton would wear a white top with a navy CFC logo and white shorts.
If Carlton played Essendon, then Essendon would wear a red jumper with a black sash with red shorts.

I know that this method will not be popular with the traditionalists, but honestly, dont tell me that this method would not be simpeler, more effective and more historical than making Saint Kilda wear yellow, Port Adelaide Pink ect.

 

[ComicStoreGuy]

Originally posted by Fire
more historical than making Saint Kilda wear yellow, port Adelaide Pink ect.

St kilda had yellow in there uniform during WW1. So should port go back to black & white?

 

[Fire]

St kilda had yellow in there uniform during WW1. So should port go back to black & white?

First off, In WWI Saint Kildas colours were:
Black, Yellow, Red.
In clash games, they wear:
Black, White, Yellow.

So they do wear foreign colours on their clash jumpers, if that was the point you were trying to make.

Anyway, Teal is an official colour of Port Adelaide. Yellow is not an official colour of Saint Kilda (as far as I know at least, though id be willing to eat a humble pie) So I dont see how the comparison could be made.

However, if you want to start digging up historical colours, then Port Adelaide really can start wearing pink.

 

[ComicStoreGuy]

Originally posted by Fire


First off, In WWI Saint Kildas colours were:
Black, Yellow, Red.
In clash games, they wear:
Black, White, Yellow

Dooesn't that mean they have had yellow in there inform?

So they do wear foreign colours on their clash jumpers, if that was the point you were trying to make [/B]

So we shouldn't try to get more supports by introducing new colours? This is why the saints continued with the yellow jumper after the deal with pura had finished.

Anyway, Teal is an official colour of Port Adelaide. Yellow is not an official colour of Saint Kilda (as far as I know at least, though id be willing to eat a humble pie) So I dont see how the comparison could be made.

However, if you want to start digging up historical colours, then Port Adelaide really can start wearing pink. [/B]

Point Taken

 

[gold cup 1996]

Originally posted by Fire
Im fairly passionate about this topic, mostly because i am amazed by the complete stupidity driving it.

Frstly, i think that the clashing topic is way overated. ALthough i do have some very simple points that will help lessen the 'difficulties' some people may encounter while trying to figure out which jumper is Saint Kildas and which jumper is Fremantles.

1.)SHORTS!!! am I the only one who finds the 'white shorts for the away team' attitude glaringly brainless? Nothing annoys me more than watching Essendon play Saint Kilda in white shorts. Yeah, it sure helps the colour clashing problem to add white to Essendons colours. Other idiotic clashes created when teams are forced to wear white shorts include:
Collingwood V Carlton
Saint Kilda V Melbourne
West Coast V Carlton
Geelong V Carlton
Hawthawn V West Coast
Saint Kilda V Richmond

And thats just off the top of my head.
Sydney never wear white shorts. Why make everyone else?

2.) STOP TEAMS CHANGING OR MAKING SPECIAL CLASH JUMPERS!!! This is ewhat caused this crap in the first place. If Melbourne, Carlton and West COast didnt change their navy blue to a shade of black then a lot of current headaches would be solved.
Look at Geelongs attept at a clash gersey. How come not one person had the vision to see that by adding royal blue to their jumper would make it MORE difficut in their away game against north? ESPECIALLY since they were also wearing white shorts.

3.) INVERT!!! If all else fails then make the away side invert their colours.

Tha way I see how this could work is get every away team use their lightest colour on their shorts and invert their jumper so that their lightest colour is predominaint in clash games.
i.e. If Essendon played Carlton, then Carlton would wear a white top with a navy CFC logo and white shorts.
If Carlton played Essendon, then Essendon would wear a red jumper with a black sash with red shorts.

I know that this method will not be popular with the traditionalists, but honestly, dont tell me that this method would not be simpeler, more effective and more historical than making Saint Kilda wear yellow, Port Adelaide Pink ect.

I agree it is overated to a great degree, some people think Essendon & Richmond clash for example, yeah sure they are mainly black, one wears a yellow sash, while the other wears a red sash & a dark shade of red at that. My question is this when does red look like yellow?

Another good point you brought up on was about the away side wearing white shorts, this is a help no doubt, but a few players do run around with their jumpers hanging out over the top of their shorts.

Another thing I agree with you on is Essendon wearing white shorts against St Kilda when they are the away side, this makes the clash even more of a clash of colours.

Another problem in recent years that has been created is Collingwood wearing a mainly black jumper against Carlton, I find now these 2 teams now clash wear they never used to. A simple solution would be make Collingwood wear their mainly white jumper with black stripes for Carlton games.

West Coast to wear their original royal blue & gold jumpers against Richmond & Hawthorn or better still all the time.

North Melbourne to wear their new away jumper for home & away games against Geelong & Geelong keep their traditional Navy & white hooped jumper. Why I say this Geelong's jumper is mainly white with navy hoops & North's is a royal blue with a little splash of white & light grey or silver. North's new away jumper is not unlike the Bulldogs with their royal blue jumper, with the touch of a red & white band as well, yet no one complains of Bulldogs & Geelong clashing.

Just a few more thoughts I guess & common sense.

 

[Fire]

Dooesn't that mean they have had yellow in there inform?

Yes.
But does that mean it is a traditional colour? North Melbourne wore a blazing Orange in 2000. Does that mean it is a traditional colour? Ask anyone and they will tell you that Orange is a forein colour.

Saint Kilda wears a forein colour in its clash jumper. The fact that they had wore it before means nothing. Jumper designs are traditional. Yellow is a part of their history but not their tradition.

So we shouldn't try to get more supports by introducing new colours? This is why the saints continued with the yellow jumper after the deal with pura had finished.

I have to admit i dont understand this quote at all.

 

[Super Demon]

Originally posted by mcgarnacle
excerpt from realfooty.theage.com.au

Cats to rethink alternate strip

Geelong has called on the style police to review its unpopular "clash" guernsey.

Slazenger began designing three or four alternative alternate strips after the dark blue jumper worn by the Cats against Collingwood and the Kangaroos last season prompted more than 100 complaint emails from supporters watching the games.

Geelong chief executive Brian Cook told last night's annual meeting that while the club would continue to wear a distinctive guernsey when playing similarly coloured clubs, the design required attention.

"The alternate jumper obviously wasn't a popular one. We still believe we need an alternate guernsey, because there is a definite clash when we play Collingwood and North Melbourne, and the people who will tell you that more than anyone are the players," Cook said.

He said the Cats would wear the dark blue strip only once next year, against the Magpies in round 15, and noted that any revised design must adhere to the club's constitution, which demands any new guernsey be "predominantly blue and in a striped fashion".

"There are some real constraints about what we can do. We'll use the jumper only once next year against Collingwood, in a Friday night game, and Slazenger are currently developing three or four alternatives for us to look at," Cook said.

"The important point for us would be to ensure that there isn't a clash between jumpers. And that it has some viewer satisfaction that is a bit better than we have at the moment."
-end

why are the cats going to all the effort? theirs is not the only guernsey that clashes with another club. richmond, carlton, essendon, melbourne & st kilda all clash with one another and I really don't see any of them (ex saints) making the effort to avoid clashes. there should be a directive from the afl whereby the relative clubs are instructed to take to the field in a strip as to avoid a clash. Until then, each club (inc the expansion teams) should stand their ground and take to the field in their normal strips. alternate strips will probably be the norm someday but, until then, bugger it.

Gotta love the cats!
going to all that trouble when the "more traditional clubs"
Simply Dont Care

 

[parano1a]

Originally posted by gold cup 1996
I must say a good tip for St Kilda & I don't want people to take this the wrong way, when you play Essendon, Carlton & Collingwood isn't it, instead of wearing that horrible yellow jumper, wear your herritage jumper no colour clash because it was mainly white from memory, the other teams are either mainly black or navy blue.

Collingwood (home strip) v St Kilda (heritage strip) would create one of the worst clashes imaginable.

I was watching this year's Richmond v St Kilda heritage game and when the camera was zoomed out it looked like an old-style Hawthorn v Collingwood game - St Kilda's red disappears into the black leaving black and white stripes

 

[happy hawker]

It's not an 'overrated' issue.

Certain clubs have real colour clashes. If Geelong needs to keep to it's original design for an alternate jumper then they need to be very white. As umpires can be different colours then being nearly all white would be no problem.

The first thing some teams should do is make their traditional jumpers the same from back to front. Collingwood for example has stripes on the front and nearly all black on the back. Why not have stripes everwhere?

Now that Carlton has indicated that it will have alternate jumpers it only leaves the three (Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond) backwards clubs left. But as long as the spineless Andrew Demetriou is in charge theres no chance these clubs will be forced to have alternate strips.

On this issue it's the Amateur Football League.

 

[parano1a]

Originally posted by happy hawker
It's not an 'overrated' issue.
The first thing some teams should do is make their traditional jumpers the same from back to front. Collingwood for example has stripes on the front and nearly all black on the back. Why not have stripes everwhere?

The number and sponsor logo on the back need maximum visibility. The new Collingwood jumper looks good, but I agree they should use the old black on white, white backs one for games against Carlton and certain dark-coloured teams.

 

[happy hawker]

Originally posted by parano1a
The number and sponsor logo on the back need maximum visibility. The new Collingwood jumper looks good, but I agree they should use the old black on white, white backs one for games against Carlton and certain dark-coloured teams.

Yep fair point. But many soccer teams, Newcastle in the EPL don't seem to have too many problems.

But as you point out it's only a matter of a sensible approach not the 'bury our head in the sand' ethos of a few already mentioned clubs.

Alternate strips are coming. Whether clubs play along or need to be smashed over the head to get in line - they will eventuate.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Originally posted by Fire
Sydney never wear white shorts. Why make everyone else?

This is something that has me rather perplexed. When Sydney play the Hawks in Melbourne they are allowed to wear red shorts. However, when the Hawks play Sydney in Sydney, they have to wear white shorts.
How come the uniforms don't clash in Melbourne but they do in Sydney?

 

[Moo://_Cow]

geelong just need to wear something similar to their silver training jumper (with silver shorts/socks)

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Originally posted by Moo://_Cow
geelong just need to wear something similar to their silver training jumper (with silver shors/socks)

That is precisely the idea. Something simple that will never clash with another team's guernsey.

 

[Roonaldo!]

i'm surprised not many people here have mentioned the kangas brilitant away top, it is completely oppisite from the home, but it still says go north.
However, i don't appreciate north melbourne wearing the top to all away matches as it degrades the original gurnsey.....i think we should only wear it when deemed neccesary.

Also, i don't like the idea that essendon, collingwood and richmond, don't make away tops, as the clashing among then is huge. Just look at an essendon v richmond match, its hard to tell the difference (except richmond not having a band on the back).

 

[dogsbody]

Originally posted by captain-boomer
i'm surprised not many people here have mentioned the kangas brilitant away top, it is completely oppisite from the home, but it still says go north.
However, i don't appreciate north melbourne wearing the top to all away matches as it degrades the original gurnsey.....i think we should only wear it when deemed neccesary.

Also, i don't like the idea that essendon, collingwood and richmond, don't make away tops, as the clashing among then is huge. Just look at an essendon v richmond match, its hard to tell the difference (except richmond not having a band on the back).

Clubs which adopt an alternative strip will have one eye to merchandising. English soccer clubs vary their strips regularly so that the supporters will regularly turn over their shirts. I suppose Essendon and Collingwood can aford to forgo that boost to revenue from sale of merchandise. Don't Collingwood wear their black on white jumper against Carlton ?

 

[Roonaldo!]

from 2001 onwards, no

and about the merchandise, fair oint, but won't it cost to actually make the shirts?

 

[dogsbody]

Originally posted by captain-boomer
from 2001 onwards, no

and about the merchandise, fair oint, but won't it cost to actually make the shirts?

Yes, it costs to make them, but as long as the supporters buy them, the club will make a profit on its mark up. The soccer clubs do very well out of merchandising.

Did any clubs make available to their supporters their heritage jumpers ? If so, did they sell well ? I imagine there would have been takers for the Brisbane heritage jumper in Melbourne.

 

[benny's buddy]

While I applaude the Cats for trying to make an effort (no matter how unsuccessfully), at the same time I think 'stuff it, why should we go to all this effort while some other clubs arrogantly refuse?'.

I agree that the AFL has to put up or shut up, and either introduce a proper rule and make sure EVERY team abides by it, or just live with the occassional clashes.

 

[riccardo]

Originally posted by parano1a
Collingwood (home strip) v St Kilda (heritage strip) would create one of the worst clashes imaginable.

I was watching this year's Richmond v St Kilda heritage game and when the camera was zoomed out it looked like an old-style Hawthorn v Collingwood game - St Kilda's red disappears into the black leaving black and white stripes

I disagree. Collingwood has guernseys now that are predominantly black rather than thier traditional mostly white, and the Saints new away guernsey is predominantly white. The Pies back is also black, while our away is white. No clash that I can see.
Also, I was in attendance for the St Kilda Vs Richmond heritage round game sitting on level 3 of the Dome, and I could easily see the red stripes. The new style has thicker stripes anyway, so this should combat the problem.
I for one am delirously happy to see the back of the "yellow peril" guernsey. Yellow was a good idea, but, seriously, "egg yolk yellow" was not, especially with the white right next to it. If the designers had any sense, it would have been that design, but red instead of white and Hawthorns gold colour instead of the vile looking colour they used.

Every team should make at least an effort to have a clash guernsey, how they can't see it would rake in revenue is beyond me (I own an away guernsey, and my brother has a clash one, $200 extra for my club). Geelong should be applauded, but they need to shoot the designers ad go back to the drawing board, as we have done.
If staid traditionalist teams like Collingwood (hypocracy, considering the change in guernsey in the last few years) and Essendon "we are like Man U" (who have clash and alternate strips by the way - genius!) refuse to comply, I'm sure they could be convinced with threatened fines or something to that affect.