The amount of deluded football fans.

[Roylion]

Do you belive the AFL would be as successful now if Fitzroy and South Melbourne existed instead of Sydney and Brisbane.

The AFL would be as successful if Fitzroy AND the Brisbane Bears existed as separate clubs in the AFL.

 

[Roy boys]

The AFL would be as successful if Fitzroy AND the Brisbane Bears existed as separate clubs in the AFL.

I dare say we were both super passionate roy fans. I was only 12 granted but i was in love with the club and was one of those kids who turned up every week in our dieing days at the western oval.
After originally being bitter young and naive i've been able to see why it was done. I don't think we were viable and we would never of been able to compete. How were we going to become a profitable club, how could we of existed in the modern day professional climate ?

 

[DonDraper]

Talk to a Dogs or Saints fan about how great it would be to see GC succesful early while they have waited and waited for a long time without success...I understand why the GC need these concessions, I'm just more so against them coming in in the first place

 

[Commando]

the AFL dont want you too support your club, you are supporting colours, a name, a logo, faceless players, meaningless names.

the AFL is hell bent on providing a televeision program, that is it.

i personally would rather see my side merge or relocate than die altogether, US sporting franchises are sold all over the country but retain a loyal following because fans can still see 'their' taem on TV.

if you want to feel a part of 'your' club then you better head down to the local footy, because you aren't gonna find it in the big league.

im not saying if its right or wrong but thats progress.

 

[who gives a]

have no problem with players leaving to secure their future clubs move players on whenever they like with no regard to the player

 

[Roylion]

I dare say we were both super passionate roy fans. I was only 12 granted but i was in love with the club and was one of those kids who turned up every week in our dieing days at the western oval.

I was/am a third generation Fitzroy supporter and have been going to Fitzroy games since the early 70's.

I don't think we were viable and we would never of been able to compete. How were we going to become a profitable club, how could we of existed in the modern day professional climate ?

It certainly would have helped had the AFL commission been supportive of Fitzroy remaining in the competition, as they have been with North, the Dogs and Melbourne. The commission blocked many of the moves Fitzroy made to improve their position, such a multi-million dollar Canberra initiative and actively pushed a merger...in the end with an interstate club.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Wrote something very similar to the OP in regards to the Judd trade a few days ago on our team board.

Loyalty seems to be a one way street in the AFL.

The idea that clubs should be loyal to players is seen as both ridiculous and outdated. Trading players or de-listing whenever it is advantageous (both rightly and wrongly), is seen as an essential part of effective list management. Sometimes the more ruthless the better.

Many fans are also quick to stick their boots in once players are gone.

Now why should players simply hang on the whims of a club. In such a cut throat business, where players have a very limited window to maximise their earning capacity, if a club is not treating them right why not seek better opportunities elsewhere if things are not working out.

Now this is not to say I don't feel there should be some element of player loyalty, because after all the fans and sponsors pay their way and clubs make substantial investments in player development. But if you have been previously offered up for trade or have achieved all that you can with a club, why shouldn't you consider a move?

So to summarise, if a club suddenly decides to treat you like you are expendable, what is then wrong with considering your options.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

have no problem with players leaving to secure their future clubs move players on whenever they like with no regard to the player

I don't think this is always true, but it most often is.

WC have been heavily criticised for perceived lack of cut throat attitude when it comes to list management. Clubs (in conjunction with player managers) do also seek to prepare players for life after football, or find ways to accommodate valued players and those they think have interest and the acumen to continue on in the industry after retiring.

Heck some clubs even on occasion go out of their way to help facilitate requested player trades.

But it is still a very ruthless industry.

I don't begrudge players moving for better pay and opportunity if it is lacking or they havn't been treated the best at their current club, but I do respect loyalty to a club and it's fans.

Say if we had a young guy on our list for 2-3 years. We helped him develop, paid him well despite him not threatening to break into the side and he decides to leave to chase a few extra bucks as soon as his stocks raise and he looks like getting a consistent game. In that situation I as a fan would be miiiiiiiighty pissed. The club have made a huge investment and he has in effect short changed the club and supporters.

 

[The_Wookie]

It certainly would have helped had the AFL commission been supportive of Fitzroy remaining in the competition, as they have been with North, the Dogs and Melbourne. The commission blocked many of the moves Fitzroy made to improve their position, such a multi-million dollar Canberra initiative and actively pushed a merger...in the end with an interstate club.

I think the current commission would have supported Fitzroy, but the commission in the early 90s was a slightly different story, and it was prior to the AFLs massive $780 million tv rights deal which filled their coffers and allowed for the ASD funding. They would still try to get you to relocate or merge, but it wouldnt have been the end if you hadnt. Like South melbourne in the early 80s, you were as much a victim of the AFLs needs and wants, as your own finances.

 

[The_Wookie]

the AFL dont want you too support your club, you are supporting colours, a name, a logo, faceless players, meaningless names.

the AFL is hell bent on providing a televeision program, that is it.

Then why bother with club assistance and special funds? let the weak die out and see who surivives...

 

[JoondalupJ]

I can't believe some of the comments i am hearing from supporters of players who are defecting to the GC.
First off the bat, Brown and Richa were both offered up by their respective clubs 12 months ago during the trade period. Why then when these players leave are they called traitors ? Not all fans are doing this but alot are.
Anyone here would do what Brown did and take a contract worth twice as much as the one he was offered by hawthorn. Not only is he receiving alot more money he's also got another years security. No one would reject that.
Secondly to the people who are sooking about all the concessions that the GC are getting. It is so inportant that they are releatively successful as early as possible. A basketcase would achieve nothing for the league and only diminish the quality, this has been needed and is good for the game, just as free agency will be.
Guys i understand people love their players and thats perfectly understandable but you need to maybe look beyond that and at the overall good of the game. This is good for the game.

Basketcase is a good word. The AFL have actually created a situation in the league where, a "basketcase", may just occur.
GC17 and GWS are being proped up by trading rules and huge amounts of money and they gaurentee no success, also they gaurentee that some clubs whose finances are down may become "basketcases" the population isn't going to be gaurenteed in the GWS region to stand up and become members, this club will be proped up forever.
The fact that the comment is "the new clubs have to have topline players so they're successful early" is blatantly pointing to the fact that these new clubs couldn't just start up by themselves . The proof of that is, the millions, that Dimetriou and his mob are prepared to pay out to get some fantastic TV rights by buying two new clubs, where the AFL hopes everyone will want to watch. Right slap bang in the middle of rugby country, good luck.
If the rest of the AFL fans around the country see their clubs drop off because of disillusion towards the way the game is going no one will be interested.
You say good for the game , NO, its good for making TV money, "MAYBE", and good for the hierarchy of the AFL , I don't think its good for the other 16 clubs and the reason for that is WE DON'T NEED TWO MORE CLUBS and possibly can't support two more clubs
we already have Swans and Lions NSW and QLD, and no one in Tassie what a joke.
Too late now they,ve done it and someone will get rich out of it I suppose.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Great post, and very logically presented. It is unfortunate that supporters do this, but you have to understand the majority of supporters are very basic and prefer to criticise because it is easier than acknowledging reality.

Yes the Gold Coast need to do well, and it would be logical to look at the West Coast Eagles as a team that did so well in the early stages of their inclusion to the league. Without that initial success you could end up really struggling in 5-10 years. The environment is competitive these days so they need to recruit as much talent as they can and try and win a flag in the next 4-5 years. Hopefully they get a good following and they keep their coffers full.

WCE are slap bang in the middle of a Australian rules mad state, they breed brilliant footballers they didn't have to rip into the other clubs or get 200 million dollars, in fact I think they may have paid some money to get in, even then they took 4 to 5 years to hit the top and that is a footy state we're talking about.
How in hell can you compare WCE to GC17, FAIR DINKUM?

 

[Dont be a lemon]

The Gold Coast and Western Sydney clubs will ultimately benefit the AFL and Australian rules football in the same way Brisbane and Sydney have. It will be costly for a while but certainly a worthwhile investment.

On-field, the 'advantages' Gold Coast and GWS have been given are overstated.

Loyalty in football is over rated, especially when it only works one way.

This is essentially true.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Football is a career. Many footballers struggle financially after football.

If you were offered a promotion at work, or even the SAME job, in a better location, for the double the money, would you not take it?

Get over it.

 

[Razorback]

I think this thread raises some very good points. Arguments for expansion have been expressed as growing the game and for the long term benefit of the game. Arguments against expansion are that we are corrupting the competition and that expansion doesn't help already loyal supporters only money hungry administrators.

First of all I'd like to say I'm all for expansion and hope the new teams do really well. I'm not too concerned about on field results, but off field. I hope the residents of the expansion areas do embrace the new teams and that this great game of ours becomes a truly national game. Having said that I believe that only on field success will result in off field success.

Anyhow I find a few points made here very interesting and honestly somewhat selfish. I understand people support a certain club and all they want to see is there club succeed, but when talking about expansion I think we need to think a little more outside the square.

From the point of view of the administration of the game, obviously they want to see the game grow financially which will allow themselves to earn more money. More than that, which I think people overlook is there will be more money for players, more money for more media rights which will enable more general discussion about the game and also allow us to watch more games of football and improve the facilities in which we watch from.

More importantly the expansion of the competition allows for people outside of football to get involved. Why do we, already loyal fans want that?
Well because obviously first of all more money for the reasons listed above about more of the game for us to enjoy. Secondly so we can find more talented players. Obviously Victoria is the home of footy and hence most of the AFL players originate from Victoria. Is that because we have better athletes in Victoria or because the majority of youngsters grow up wanting to be AFL stars??? There is an endless amount of talent out there that AFL football hasn't even touched yet and expanding is the only way to get to it. How does this affect you, well watching your beloved team play every week surely you would like to watch the best players possible representing you club. Well at the moment that's not the case.

And what does it matter to the average footy fan if Australian Rules becomes the #2 or #3 code in 50 years? It's still going to be around. Is it worth making it even more difficult for the side you support to win a flag, just so people can puff out their chest and say "our sport is #1". Who gives a shit?

Well actually you will give a shit. First of all you wont have the best players playing in the sport as they will prefer to play in the number 1 sport where they will get paid more money and be loved by more people. Secondly you wont have too many mates willing to talk to you about you beloved sport as no one will care about a crappy sport, and thirdly you wont be able to watch your team play as no one will want to waste their money broadcasting a sport that no one is going to watch.
Ask NBL basketball fans or A-league soccer fans if they are happy with the amount of coverage their sports receive.

ok roy boys, looked it up. the two clubs that had loses last year were.... BRISBANE and SYDNEY. so i was wrong about port. stick your rightousness in your glory box pal. real good move by the AFL isn't...

Do you think that it si a coincidence that both those teams you mentioned are the only teams in the competition that don't have cross town rivals? Rivalry increases the intensity of any contest and creates excitement amongst people who in the end just want to be involved. Ask South Australian and West Australian fans which game they look forward to the most each and every year.

Your other point, the good of the game? Laughable. I couldn't care less. I follow my team, not "AFL", certainly not other teams, and I don't mindlessly believe bullshit fed to me by spin doctors.

You wont have a team to support if they don't have a competition to play in. This is the mindset that gives me the most headaches. I understand you love you team, but as I said before expansion in the long run will benefit every team. Will it make winning premierships easier? Well no, but it wouldn't be as special if it was easy to win. I bet Geelong supporters enjoyed the 2007 premiership win more than the 2009 win.


Expansion may not have an immediate impact on our lives. But I, like many others, believe that this game is the greatest in the world. So therefore stop being so selfish and let the rest of the people in the world experience out great game and help make it even better.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Do you think that it si a coincidence that both those teams you mentioned are the only teams in the competition that don't have cross town rivals? Rivalry increases the intensity of any contest and creates excitement amongst people who in the end just want to be involved. Ask South Australian and West Australian fans which game they look forward to the most each and every year.

No offence, but that is bull crap. U saying the only reason Sydney and Brisbane were losses last year was because they didnt have a rivalry. A rival means nothing, it just one extra game to someone who couldnt care about the club. None of this extra excitement will make people in Sydney suddenly become interested in AR. If they arent interested in AFL, they arent going to be interested in a "rivalry".

A good example of this is the new A-League team, Melbourne Heart. Or the countless number 2 teams in cities which failed in the NBL. West Sydnet something, Melbourne Dragons all failed. these codes didnt get new extra fans just because of a "rivalry". People who spin this rivalry line are really clutching at straws.

 

[Roy boys]

At the end of the day each and every new side has added an extra dimension to the AFL. Each step the AFL has taken has turned out to be positive in the long run and i don't see why these sides will ne any different. I don't think rivalry matters but more the fact that now in queensland and NSW their will be a game every week. That has to mean more people will watch the sport, that has to mean that their will be more Gilbert's, more Jack's and we will attract the best athletes from these states. That should be enough for the average fan, but for the business sides of things the extra revenue is enormous. Sydney is the biggest market in this country and for aussie rules to continue to grow they need a foothold, this goes without saying. The gold coast is the fastest growing area in the country, again we need an AFL influence here for the game to continue to grow. Guys if we stay still other sports will go ahead, do you understand that ? rather then us getting Falou & Hunt and manageing to get Jack and the like to be AFL players. It'll be League or Soccer taking Ablett, Franklin and Judd, would we like that ?

 

[MickyCrow]

I felt hatred towards the AFL for a long time after 1996. I was 12 years old and was heart broken, i didn't watch a game for 2 or 3 seasons. I was so jealous of the rest of my family who followed Hawthorn & Essendon and wanted to kill Oakley. As time went on though and i got wiser i understood why it happened. As we can see Rugby League is now buggered for want of a better word. This is because they still play at surburban grounds and carry clubs who finaincially still shouldn't exist. The afl though saw that South melbourne and Fitzroy had no future and moved them on, i was one of many shattered people who thought why but atleast for some fans they can still now love Brisbane and Sydney. Everything the AFL does is for the better of the sport and so far they've been pretty bloody good at it. Gold Coast and GWS is needed to continue this and i understand people being shattered at there favourite player leaving but please look beyond and at the betterment of the game.

Rational part of my brain: Hear Hear

Emotional part of my brain: **** bock

Not sure what to go with, nice level headed approach though

 

[Roy boys]

Rational part of my brain: Hear Hear

Emotional part of my brain: **** bock

Not sure what to go with, nice level headed approach though

Thanks pal. Exactly what makes our game great though, the loyalty of the fans. Its also why were fans and the administrators are administrators. We come to conclusions which benefit our footy clubs, they need to come to conclusions which will benefit the league. So if we all take our club hats off i think we would all see its for the betterment of the sport and its long term sustainability. Well thats what i believe anyway