The Big 4 - 2015

[Hawkk]

This thread is ridiculous, Hawkk I respect your research and it's interesting to read but I think your suffering from inferiority complex when you don't have too.


Yes, Richmond have a huge supporter base. Richmond will always have a huge supporter base, the Tigers are ingrained in Melbourne's working class population like Phar Lap and Collingwood were during the great depression. Richmond lifted the spirits of Victoria's struggling working class when they were lining up outside councils/soup kitchens for a feed during the 30s.

There is a deep, importance to Richmond's existence in this league and that passion has passed on for generations, regardless of on field success. Collingwood are the same, regardless of success, these clubs represented Melbourne's working class, the majority.

Carlton and Essendon gathered support based on many, many, many successful eras of success. They've stalled recently because that success isn't coming to them like it once was. These two clubs won roughly 20 premierships together in a 50 year period.

Hawthorn in my opinion, is the gem of the competition. The club that's the modern Victorian superpower of the 21st century. The success is unparalleled 12 premierships in 50 years is phenomenal and I don't understand why you feel the need to break down every statistic to show how close Hawthorn is to the other big four teams.

I believe Hawthorn will reach Carlton and Essendon's level, very very soon. But Richmond and Collingwood have built an identity that's deeply rooted in the history of Victoria's working class, and regardless of success, the PASSION, the generational support and the tribal essence of the VFL competition will live through those two traditional clubs.

Hawthorn have done a phenomenal job, but statistics will never explain identity.

I agree with all that you have said.

Whether they are perceived otherwise the statistics presented support this view

 

[Hawkk]

This thread is ridiculous, Hawkk I respect your research and it's interesting to read but I think your suffering from inferiority complex when you don't have too.


Yes, Richmond have a huge supporter base. Richmond will always have a huge supporter base, the Tigers are ingrained in Melbourne's working class population like Phar Lap and Collingwood were during the great depression. Richmond lifted the spirits of Victoria's struggling working class when they were lining up outside councils/soup kitchens for a feed during the 30s.

There is a deep, importance to Richmond's existence in this league and that passion has passed on for generations, regardless of on field success. Collingwood are the same, regardless of success, these clubs represented Melbourne's working class, the majority.

Carlton and Essendon gathered support based on many, many, many successful eras of success. They've stalled recently because that success isn't coming to them like it once was. These two clubs won roughly 20 premierships together in a 50 year period.

Hawthorn in my opinion, is the gem of the competition. The club that's the modern Victorian superpower of the 21st century. The success is unparalleled 12 premierships in 50 years is phenomenal and I don't understand why you feel the need to break down every statistic to show how close Hawthorn is to the other big four teams.

I believe Hawthorn will reach Carlton and Essendon's level, very very soon. But Richmond and Collingwood have built an identity that's deeply rooted in the history of Victoria's working class, and regardless of success, the PASSION, the generational support and the tribal essence of the VFL competition will live through those two traditional clubs.

Hawthorn have done a phenomenal job, but statistics will never explain identity.

VFL home and away 1925-1941
Carlton 6,453,474
Richmond 5,705,325
South Melbourne 5,460,580
Collingwood 5,242,330
St Kilda 4,882,603
Essendon 4,647,125
Footscray 4,587,062
Melbourne 4,534,566
Fitzroy 4,487,053
Geelong 4,360,087
North Melbourne 3,260,847
Hawthorn 2,961,458

VFL home and away 1960-1977
Collingwood 10,653,827
Richmond 9,882,139
Carlton 9,479,277
Melbourne 9,257,471
Essendon 8,622,204
St Kilda 8,139,310
Geelong 7,801,814
Hawthorn 6,995,164
Footscray 6,939,251
South Melbourne 6,263,811
Fitzroy 5,973,928
North Melbourne 5,613,855

AFL home and away 1997 - 2014
Collingwood 20,119,156
Essendon 18,761,728
Carlton 16,157,619
Richmond 15,733,715
Hawthorn 14,189,768
Adelaide 13,498,176
Geelong 13,399,210
St Kilda 13,145,652
West Coast 12,847,639
Melbourne 12,461,141
Sydney 12,261,147
W Bulldogs 11,700,503
North Melbourne 11,584,999
Fremantle 11,247,356
Brisbane Lions 10,781,670
Port Adelaide 10,727,516

Across VFL/AFL history Carlton (1, 2, 3), Richmond (2, 2, 4) and Collingwood (4, 1, 1) have been the only consistent 'big clubs'. For all intent and purpose, in terms of football history, its really a big 3 (Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton) with Essendon in 4th

In terms of the climbers, Hawthorn (12, 8, 5) have basically been on a continuous upswing since the mid 1960s (which is a common theme in this thread). Essendon's emergence from a middle of the road club was very late from 6, 5 to a clear 2nd (probably the Sheedy factor).

South Melbourne (3, 10, 11) was a seriously big club through the 20's and 30's but dropped off dramatically in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Melbourne (8, 4, 10) started low, emerged and dropped back to mediocrity while the Saints (5, 6, 8) and Dogs (6, 9, 12) all started from pretty big bases (certainly bigger than Hawthorn and North Melbourne) but decades without premiership success have hindered their growth...

All things considered, I think you are spot on with this post...although you are selling Carlton short massively. For most of their history, Carlton was one of the 2 biggest clubs in the league (with Richmond up to 1940, with Collingwood up until the mid 1990's)

Another stat post, sorry guys

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

It's still Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer and Anthrax, with honorable mentions to Exodus and Testament.

Hulk hogan
Macho man randy savage
Andre the giant
Rowdy roddy piper

 

[dickballsack]

This topic comes up every year and the title is always cleverly put as 'who's the big 4 now' or ' 'has the big 4 changed', etc. the big 4 was a term used by the media in the era when these 4 teams were clearly the big drawing teams with the most hatred for each other. It's no longer a relevant term and it's probably only used on this site now. What posters are arguing about on this thread is irrelevant, using stats on crowds, flags, etc. having said that, those 4 teams are still the ones that the TV stations and afl turn majority of revenue on.

 

[footyfan1978]

VFL home and away 1925-1941
Carlton 6,453,474
Richmond 5,705,325
South Melbourne 5,460,580
Collingwood 5,242,330
St Kilda 4,882,603
Essendon 4,647,125
Footscray 4,587,062
Melbourne 4,534,566
Fitzroy 4,487,053
Geelong 4,360,087
North Melbourne 3,260,847
Hawthorn 2,961,458

VFL home and away 1960-1977
Collingwood 10,653,827
Richmond 9,882,139
Carlton 9,479,277
Melbourne 9,257,471
Essendon 8,622,204
St Kilda 8,139,310
Geelong 7,801,814
Hawthorn 6,995,164
Footscray 6,939,251
South Melbourne 6,263,811
Fitzroy 5,973,928
North Melbourne 5,613,855

AFL home and away 1997 - 2014
Collingwood 20,119,156
Essendon 18,761,728
Carlton 16,157,619
Richmond 15,733,715
Hawthorn 14,189,768
Adelaide 13,498,176
Geelong 13,399,210
St Kilda 13,145,652
West Coast 12,847,639
Melbourne 12,461,141
Sydney 12,261,147
W Bulldogs 11,700,503
North Melbourne 11,584,999
Fremantle 11,247,356
Brisbane Lions 10,781,670
Port Adelaide 10,727,516

Across VFL/AFL history Carlton (1, 2, 3), Richmond (2, 2, 4) and Collingwood (4, 1, 1) have been the only consistent 'big clubs'. For all intent and purpose, in terms of football history, its really a big 3 (Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton) with Essendon in 4th

In terms of the climbers, Hawthorn (12, 8, 5) have basically been on a continuous upswing since the mid 1960s (which is a common theme in this thread). Essendon's emergence from a middle of the road club was very late from 6, 5 to a clear 2nd (probably the Sheedy factor).

South Melbourne (3, 10, 11) was a seriously big club through the 20's and 30's but dropped off dramatically in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Melbourne (8, 4, 10) started low, emerged and dropped back to mediocrity while the Saints (5, 6, 8) and Dogs (6, 9, 12) all started from pretty big bases (certainly bigger than Hawthorn and North Melbourne) but decades without premiership success have hindered their growth...

All things considered, I think you are spot on with this post...although you are selling Carlton short massively. For most of their history, Carlton was one of the 2 biggest clubs in the league (with Richmond up to 1940, with Collingwood up until the mid 1990's)

Another stat post, sorry guys

Interesting stats,
When I was a kid growing up at school it always seemed to be Carlton and Richmond supporters so I knew both clubs always had big bases. There was not a lot of Collingwood supporters in my school for some reason but maybe that was because I lived in real outer suburbs and their fans are more inner city in terms of the big masses ? Not sure. In anycase I've never felt there was much in then numbers. Strangely Essendon did not really feature as a massive club until mid 80's when Sheedy won them premierships. They moved to the MCG much earlier than Collingwood and Hawthorn and therefore gathered up a large trend of fans going to see them. It is a massive jump going from a ground that only holds 30 thousand that not central to most fans to a ground central to everything which is the G. Essendon from early 80s until well into 2000 had regular finals appearances. Premierships sprinkled around, on tv a lot and masterfully lead by coach and salesman Sheedy. He turned them into a big club along with the president back then that moved them from Windy Hill to the G. Before then it was probably Collingwood just in front of Carlton probably in numbers at games and then Richmond not too far behind.

Also Richmond been at the G a long time so these crowd numbers not limited to smaller sizes of home ground only holding low 30 thousands like Carlton had at Princes Park for many years well into this new century. Also in 70's and 80's when tv really embraced footy replays it was only natural Hawthorn that been up near top for most of time were seen on tv very often that their fan bases has grown and also helped grow when they moved from Princes Park to bigger Waverley out in East and then again to the G more recently.
Some clubs are just better at selling their memberships to their fan base and converting them into some type of membership. Hawthorn and Collingwood been brilliant at this in last decade. It is why the numbers are so big. You would think Hawthorn had more fans than Richmond and Carlton but in reality they are still a bit behind but there is no doubt it has grown quite big that they are a clear 5th in terms of club followed in Victoria. My club on the other hand, has had our worst period in our history since basically turn of century. We lost our own homeground, got murdered by penalties that taken us close to a decade and half to partially recover from on field. But off field done way more harm than on. To my way of thinking, we gone from clear 2nd in terms of latent fan numbers to 3rd or even 4th. I think Essendon have overtaken us in last decade and a half in terms of selling their club and growing it. We been treading water at best and lost our way big time. The brains trust at our club has been off for a good two decades now.

Having said that, you only need to look at things like numbers of fans for each of these clubs in things like Supercoach (below this I listed them) to get some feel where the standings are for Vic clubs in terms of just blatant followers of each club. Collingwood have moved ahead. Eddie McGurie done a good job for his club to grow them in so many ways. They are not as far in front as some of them would have you believe but they are a clear number 1 in numbers now. Early 80's I doubt that was the case. Essendon in front of Carlton and then Richmond a bit in front of Hawks although for some reason more Hawks SC players than Tigers.
Richmond and Hawks memberships and numbers helped a bit more by playing at G more often so there is not the restriction of growth like there would be for Carlton having to play about 7 home games at Docklands for virtually the last decade since we been a basket case on field. If Carlton ever get their shit together and move 9 or more of their home games to G and also become a force on field they will clearly get bigger crowds than Hawks at the very least.

Team Supported # Of Team Entries
Melbourne 8,810
Essendon 29,963
Geelong 17,486
Carlton 23,220
Hawthorn 20,328
North Melbourne 11,239
Richmond 19,844
Collingwood 30,673
St Kilda 11,498
Western Bulldogs 8,437

Maybe it is becoming a big 5

 

[PetterdHoisted]

This thread is ridiculous, Hawkk I respect your research and it's interesting to read but I think your suffering from inferiority complex when you don't have too.


Yes, Richmond have a huge supporter base. Richmond will always have a huge supporter base, the Tigers are ingrained in Melbourne's working class population like Phar Lap and Collingwood were during the great depression. Richmond lifted the spirits of Victoria's struggling working class when they were lining up outside councils/soup kitchens for a feed during the 30s.

There is a deep, importance to Richmond's existence in this league and that passion has passed on for generations, regardless of on field success. Collingwood are the same, regardless of success, these clubs represented Melbourne's working class, the majority.

Carlton and Essendon gathered support based on many, many, many successful eras of success. They've stalled recently because that success isn't coming to them like it once was. These two clubs won roughly 20 premierships together in a 50 year period.

Hawthorn in my opinion, is the gem of the competition. The club that's the modern Victorian superpower of the 21st century. The success is unparalleled 12 premierships in 50 years is phenomenal and I don't understand why you feel the need to break down every statistic to show how close Hawthorn is to the other big four teams.

I believe Hawthorn will reach Carlton and Essendon's level, very very soon. But Richmond and Collingwood have built an identity that's deeply rooted in the history of Victoria's working class, and regardless of success, the PASSION, the generational support and the tribal essence of the VFL competition will live through those two traditional clubs.

Hawthorn have done a phenomenal job, but statistics will never explain identity.

Agree, but I see EFC a little differently, they were the Collingwood/Richmond of the Protestant lower middle class.

Oh and your post is exactly why the magpies trashing Vic Park and becoming a concept club has been such a disaster

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Interesting stats,
When I was a kid growing up at school it always seemed to be Carlton and Richmond supporters so I knew both clubs always had big bases. There was not a lot of Collingwood supporters in my school for some reason but maybe that was because I lived in real outer suburbs and their fans are more inner city in terms of the big masses ? Not sure. In anycase I've never felt there was much in then numbers. Strangely Essendon did not really feature as a massive club until mid 80's when Sheedy won them premierships. They moved to the MCG much earlier than Collingwood and Hawthorn and therefore gathered up a large trend of fans going to see them. It is a massive jump going from a ground that only holds 30 thousand that not central to most fans to a ground central to everything which is the G. Essendon from early 80s until well into 2000 had regular finals appearances. Premierships sprinkled around, on tv a lot and masterfully lead by coach and salesman Sheedy. He turned them into a big club along with the president back then that moved them from Windy Hill to the G. Before then it was probably Collingwood just in front of Carlton probably in numbers at games and then Richmond not too far behind.

Also Richmond been at the G a long time so these crowd numbers not limited to smaller sizes of home ground only holding low 30 thousands like Carlton had at Princes Park for many years well into this new century. Also in 70's and 80's when tv really embraced footy replays it was only natural Hawthorn that been up near top for most of time were seen on tv very often that their fan bases has grown and also helped grow when they moved from Princes Park to bigger Waverley out in East and then again to the G more recently.
Some clubs are just better at selling their memberships to their fan base and converting them into some type of membership. Hawthorn and Collingwood been brilliant at this in last decade. It is why the numbers are so big. You would think Hawthorn had more fans than Richmond and Carlton but in reality they are still a bit behind but there is no doubt it has grown quite big that they are a clear 5th in terms of club followed in Victoria. My club on the other hand, has had our worst period in our history since basically turn of century. We lost our own homeground, got murdered by penalties that taken us close to a decade and half to partially recover from on field. But off field done way more harm than on. To my way of thinking, we gone from clear 2nd in terms of latent fan numbers to 3rd or even 4th. I think Essendon have overtaken us in last decade and a half in terms of selling their club and growing it. We been treading water at best and lost our way big time. The brains trust at our club has been off for a good two decades now.

Having said that, you only need to look at things like numbers of fans for each of these clubs in things like Supercoach (below this I listed them) to get some feel where the standings are for Vic clubs in terms of just blatant followers of each club. Collingwood have moved ahead. Eddie McGurie done a good job for his club to grow them in so many ways. They are not as far in front as some of them would have you believe but they are a clear number 1 in numbers now. Early 80's I doubt that was the case. Essendon in front of Carlton and then Richmond a bit in front of Hawks although for some reason more Hawks SC players than Tigers.
Richmond and Hawks memberships and numbers helped a bit more by playing at G more often so there is not the restriction of growth like there would be for Carlton having to play about 7 home games at Docklands for virtually the last decade since we been a basket case on field. If Carlton ever get their shit together and move 9 or more of their home games to G and also become a force on field they will clearly get bigger crowds than Hawks at the very least.

Team Supported # Of Team Entries
Melbourne 8,810
Essendon 29,963
Geelong 17,486
Carlton 23,220
Hawthorn 20,328
North Melbourne 11,239
Richmond 19,844
Collingwood 30,673
St Kilda 11,498
Western Bulldogs 8,437

Maybe it is becoming a big 5

Forget salary cap rorts, Collo white-anting you out of Princes Park to benefit his corporate mates at Telstra Dome was a disaster for the Blues.

Collingwood went a step further completely turning their back on Vic Park, motivations unclear, but smelled like social climbing to chase corporate sponsors, which seems to be the raison d'être of McGuire's tenure.

EFC had their cap handed to them by the bowls club and walked, but surely there were alternatives.

So it is perhaps more happy accident than anything else that Richmond is snug at home at Punt Road more than ever. It is a big factor In the recent renaissance of the club.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Hulk hogan
Macho man randy savage
Andre the giant
Rowdy roddy piper

Ultimate Warrior?


Michael Jackson, The Beatles, Elvis Presley and Guy Sebastian. How's that for a big four!

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Jenna Jameson
Tera Patrick
Bree Olson
Sasha Grey

 

[footyfan1978]

Forget salary cap rorts, Collo white-anting you out of Princes Park to benefit his corporate mates at Telstra Dome was a disaster for the Blues.

No, it was more than one thing. That version is another myth. We got into such a disaster because of a combination of things all done wrong in years leading up to that. The number 1 being the salary cap fiasco that got massive fine and just as bad a penalties on field via draft pick penalties of losing, Goddard, Wells and other first and second round draft picks the next year or two. But also Elliott brain dead investment in building a second rate Legends stand is what helped kill off us keeping our own ground and getting us in debt. We were in such a mess straight after those massive fines onfield and off that we were in no bargaining position with either keeping our own ground and fixing it up or negotiating some deal to get to MCG. We screwed ourselves big time and Mr Elliott is the main cause. Not Collins. Stuffed if I know what Collins could of done. Maybe all he done was helped us not get even more screwed over when we had games goto Docklands. It probably could have been worse. 7 games at Docklands and 4 at the G could have turned into 10 or 11 at Docklands and we'd be just as bad off as St.Kilda , North and Bulldogs. All I know is a number of factors screwed us up in a big way that we not recovered from. Trying to blame Collins for one factor is a myth. Truth is we just badly managed our club on and off field in mid to late 1990's and been paying for it big time ever since. Going to Docklands was a bad effect, not a cause.

 

[gopies1981]

Big 4 in Victoria in terms of latent supporter base is

Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Richmond

Hawthorn are 5th at the moment could see them possibly jumping to no.3 in the next 10 years tho.

Collingwood and essendon tho are the two biggest clubs in Victoria by a fair way tho.

 

[Leg End]

Hulk hogan
Macho man randy savage
Andre the giant
Rowdy roddy piper

Jim the anvil Neidhart
Brett Hart
King Kong Bundy
Big John Studd

 

[hench]

The big 4 to me is the teams that finished top 4 last year.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Michael Jackson, The Beatles, Elvis Presley and Guy Sebastian. How's that for a big four!

Come now, if we're going big Elvis might make the cut, but otherwise it's Mama Cass, Leslie West and, hmm, Barry White? Check out that cheeky moob flash:

 

[Leg End]

VFL home and away 1925-1941
Carlton 6,453,474
Richmond 5,705,325
South Melbourne 5,460,580
Collingwood 5,242,330
St Kilda 4,882,603
Essendon 4,647,125
Footscray 4,587,062
Melbourne 4,534,566
Fitzroy 4,487,053
Geelong 4,360,087
North Melbourne 3,260,847
Hawthorn 2,961,458

VFL home and away 1960-1977
Collingwood 10,653,827
Richmond 9,882,139
Carlton 9,479,277
Melbourne 9,257,471
Essendon 8,622,204
St Kilda 8,139,310
Geelong 7,801,814
Hawthorn 6,995,164
Footscray 6,939,251
South Melbourne 6,263,811
Fitzroy 5,973,928
North Melbourne 5,613,855

AFL home and away 1997 - 2014
Collingwood 20,119,156
Essendon 18,761,728
Carlton 16,157,619
Richmond 15,733,715
Hawthorn 14,189,768
Adelaide 13,498,176
Geelong 13,399,210
St Kilda 13,145,652
West Coast 12,847,639
Melbourne 12,461,141
Sydney 12,261,147
W Bulldogs 11,700,503
North Melbourne 11,584,999
Fremantle 11,247,356
Brisbane Lions 10,781,670
Port Adelaide 10,727,516

October 2014 - AFL becomes VFL again

 

[Hawkk]

October 2014 - AFL becomes VFL again

Now, now...

Between 1990 - 2014, non Victorian clubs won 11 flags and made participated in 19 GF's (with 3 between 2004 - 2006 featuring all non Victorian affairs)

When you consider that in 1990, between 1991 - 1994, 1995-96, 1997 - 2010 and 2011 - 2014 the split of Victorian / non Victorian clubs were 11/3, 11/4, 11/5, 10/6 and 10/8...

Non Victorian clubs have significantly outperformed what should be their average output (11/8.5567, 19/17.11)

In that same time, Victorian clubs have underperformed in an overall sense (13/15.443, 29/30.886)

That said the balance has turned since 2006 with Victorian clubs (namely Geelong 3, Hawthorn 3, Collingwood 1) sharing in 7 of the last 8 flags and qualifying for 12 of the last 16 GF's spots (Geelong 4, Hawthorn 4, Collingwood 2, St Kilda 2)

For all the talk of GF home ground advantage, history does not support the view that home ground (or state) advantage plays a roll in Grand Finals...

Since 1990

1991 - Hawthorn (13 games) def. West Coast (6 games) @ Waverley Park
1992 - West Coast (5 games) def. Geelong (9 games)
1994 - West Coast (6 games) def. Geelong (7 games)
1996 - North Melbourne (16 games) def. Sydney (3 games)
1997 - Adelaide (4 games) def. St Kilda (5 games)
1998 - Adelaide (5 games) def. North Melbourne (15 games)
2001 - Brisbane Lions (3 games) def. Essendon (12 games)
2002 - Brisbane Lions (2 games) def. Collingwood (15 games)
2003 - Brisbane Lions (3 games) def. Collingwood (14 games)
2007 - Geelong (7 games) def. Port Adelaide (4 games)
2012 - Sydney (2 games) def. Hawthorn (16 games)
2013 - Hawthorn (12 games) def. Fremantle (3 games)
2014 - Hawthorn (14 games) def. Sydney (4 games)

Non Victorian clubs have a 8 - 5 lead in these fixtures...

In fact, in terms of overwhelming home ground advantage (where one club has played 10 or more games at the venue compared to its rival...)

1996 - North Melbourne (16 games) def. Sydney (3 games)
1998 - Adelaide (5 games) def. North Melbourne (15 games)
2002 - Brisbane Lions (2 games) def. Collingwood (15 games)
2003 - Brisbane Lions (3 games) def. Collingwood (14 games)
2012 - Sydney (2 games) def. Hawthorn (16 games)
2014 - Hawthorn (14 games) def. Sydney (4 games)

The non Victorian opposition has a 4-2 advantage in these fixtures, in fact the season where the match discrepancy was largest was in 2012 where Hawthorn had played 14 more fixtures at the MCG compared to the Swans. In that season the Swans won...

Off topic but the AFL does not have a non Victorian vendetta

 

[Leg End]

Off topic but the AFL does not have a non Victorian vendetta

Apart from forcibly preventing one club only - in NSW - from trading.
Mmm.

 

[Rioli magic]

Apart from forcibly preventing one club only - in NSW - from trading.
Mmm.

I thought you had the option of trading or COLA, but not both?

Surprised it's an issue tbh after all the commentary coming out of Sydney about how COLA is used, just get rid of it and trade under the same rules as everyone else.

 

[South of the Yarra]

The Premiership Droughts of 3 of the alleged 'Big 4' is interesting.
Essendon - 15 years
Carlton- 20 years
Richmond- 35 Years

I would suggest Hawthorn and Geelong have left these minnows from last century for dead.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The Premiership Droughts of 3 of the alleged 'Big 4' is interesting.
Essendon - 15 years
Carlton- 20 years
Richmond- 35 Years

I would suggest Hawthorn and Geelong have left these minnows from last century for dead.

Interesting article I read in today's Age: Hawthorn has the highest winning percentage across the entire VFL/AFL since 1952, with Collingwood second....Also, since 1952 - the half-way mark of the history of the comp - Hawthorn has competed in 18 Grand Finals, the best across the entire competition, with Collingwood & Carlton next best on 14 apiece!

 

[Football Tragic]

The Premiership Droughts of 3 of the alleged 'Big 4' is interesting.
Essendon - 15 years
Carlton- 20 years
Richmond- 35 Years

I would suggest Hawthorn and Geelong have left these minnows from last century for dead.

I'm interested to see how far Collingwood will fall. There crowd numbers have already fallen from last year, membership will follow. Those 'minnow clubs' will soon be passing you at the rate of knots

Being a big club is all about consistency of support over decades whether you are successful onfield or not. Collingwood have been 'up' for decades now. I'm very interested to see how far their attendances, ratings and membership falls when they are the Bottom 8 club for an extended period like Carlton and Richmond have been. But of course the Pies would never do that now would they

 

[Football Tragic]

Interesting article I read in today's Age: Hawthorn has the highest winning percentage across the entire VFL/AFL since 1952, with Collingwood second....Also, since 1952 - the half-way mark of the history of the comp - Hawthorn has competed in 18 Grand Finals, the best across the entire competition, with Collingwood & Carlton next best on 14 apiece!

With all that premiership success and recently glory you would think you would have the biggest attendances, ratings, memberships, revenue and every other criteria you could possibly imagine over the past 6 decades. You have haven't you?

 

[Rioli magic]

With all that premiership success and recently glory you would think you would have the biggest attendances, ratings, memberships, revenue and every other criteria you could possibly imagine over the past 6 decades. You have haven't you?

The best club in your lifetime...

 

[Football Tragic]

The best club in your lifetime...

Ah...no

 

[Red Bull]

Jim the anvil Neidhart
Brett Hart
King Kong Bundy
Big John Studd

Big John Studd , like Canada's greatest living athlete iron Mike Sharp , never got enough credit ...