The Blues (Marsh) Brothers

[The Swans Blog]

The whole Shaun/Mitchell debate deserves its own thread.

There's a lot of discussion about Shaun and his inclusion in the team and whether or not he's good enough to be there. There's a bit of a love fest going for his younger brother Mitchell who's played a handful of tests as an all-rounder with 1 wicket and a average well over 150.

Shaun Marsh was brought into the team to replace Clarke when he was injured and did well enough, scoring 2 half centuries. Mitchell was in the team for the first test before he went down injured, but not before collecting his maiden test wicket. His average is mid-30s with 1 test 50 to his name.

Even now, at Mitchell's very early stage in his test career, his average is better than that of his brother, which is a bit shameful for Shaun, considering he's been around the scene for a long longer and is now into his 3rd chance.

For me Shaun isn't anywhere near the required level. His batting is average and his fielding is poor. For me he's gone after this series and should only make the extended squad for WI and England. Mitchell on the other hand could be made into a batsman rather than a bowler, taking into account his average and history.

 

[QAFL_Fan]

Mitchell's test average is misleading, given he has batted at 6 in a small number of tests - while Shaun has batted at 3,4, & 5 in a larger sample size, often on more difficult wickets.

Mitch is a very average bowler, despite his first class bowling figures being far superior to his batting figures (ave 28 with bat, 29 with ball) - I see him as a batting all-rounder.

He has the technique to grow his game as a batsman, and could be a useful #6 - but he really needs to improve his bowling and actually do something with the ball, as his pace is too pedestrian to just bowl nude medium pacers.

Shaun is a classy player, but a decade in the game at first class level with an average still in the mid 30's just screams 'plodder'. Guys like Shaun Marsh getting multiple shots at test cricket despite such a poor record is precisely why Ponting held on as long as he did, and why Watson is persisted with.

Long story short:

I think Shaun Marsh is a first class plodder who will never make it in Test cricket, I hope he doesn't play again. He is also a huge liability in the field.

I think Mitch Marsh has some potential (dirty word) to be a reasonable option at #6, but he needs to improve at both disciplines. I can't see him ever batting higher than 6, so his bowling needs serious work. His numbers most certainly do not demand selection, in fact his first class batting doesn't even suggest he should be considered - but such is the pool of talent, players don't have to earn spots in the current climate. his biggest worry will be injury hampering his development, much in the same way it has hampered our incumbent test all-rounder.

 

[The_Reaper]

Mitch Marsh averaged near 50 for a 12 month period before getting selected. Including a double century for Australia A.

Watson was injured. Henriques can probably feel unlucky but the selectors went for the youngster who just scored a double century.

With Shaun Marsh his shield seasons are actually pretty decent indicator of his international performance.

He has had more than a few 20s average shield seasons in the past. This shield season he averages over 50 with two centuries (one unbeaten) so there may be an argument that Langer has helped him turn around.

Is Callum Ferguson's sheffield average of 41 (at Adelaide) much better than Marsh's average of 37 at the WACA?

Marsh's fielding is actually genuinely fairly decent. I have no idea what happened this series.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Marsh's fielding is actually genuinely fairly decent. I have no idea what happened this series.

Agreed, his fielding is fine. Too many posters basing their judgement off the last few games alone.

 

[QAFL_Fan]

Been watching Marsh field in ODI's, IPL and state cricket for years. He has always been poor.

Callum Ferguson averages 38 in first class cricket, despite batting mostly at the Adelaide Oval. If he plays test cricket, I will throw up.

Mitch Marsh having a first class average of 50 for the period before he was selected is the most cherry picked stat in cricket, and his double century in an A game is meaningless. Those A games vs India were completely meaningless, there were guys making runs for fun.

Marsh made 211 in a mickey mouse trial series at AB Oval.

Ben Cutting made 96, Sean Whiteman made 174, Phil Hughes made 100*, Doolan made 93* and Faulkner made 94.

Naman Ohja the Indian A keeper batted 3 times for scores of 219*, 101* and 110.

I think I'll take any scores from those games with a grain of salt!

The fact that Marsh batted 6 and Haddin at 7 is embarassing, given their respective battingh records in all formats and at all levels.

If we want to pick players in form, with experience - they couldn't do worse than to go to the aging bits and pieces QLD Captain - James Hopes.

In the last 4 completed shield seasons, James Hopes has 1641 runs @ 38 and 111 wickets @ 22.5

Mitch Marsh has a career record of 1768 runs @ 28 and 57 wickets @ 29

 

[PaddyO]

Moises Henriques.

 

[Power Raid]

Mitchell's test average is misleading, given he has batted at 6 in a small number of tests - while Shaun has batted at 3,4, & 5 in a larger sample size, often on more difficult wickets.

Mitch is a very average bowler, despite his first class bowling figures being far superior to his batting figures (ave 28 with bat, 29 with ball) - I see him as a batting all-rounder.

He has the technique to grow his game as a batsman, and could be a useful #6 - but he really needs to improve his bowling and actually do something with the ball, as his pace is too pedestrian to just bowl nude medium pacers.

Shaun is a classy player, but a decade in the game at first class level with an average still in the mid 30's just screams 'plodder'. Guys like Shaun Marsh getting multiple shots at test cricket despite such a poor record is precisely why Ponting held on as long as he did, and why Watson is persisted with.

Long story short:

I think Shaun Marsh is a first class plodder who will never make it in Test cricket, I hope he doesn't play again. He is also a huge liability in the field.

I think Mitch Marsh has some potential (dirty word) to be a reasonable option at #6, but he needs to improve at both disciplines. I can't see him ever batting higher than 6, so his bowling needs serious work. His numbers most certainly do not demand selection, in fact his first class batting doesn't even suggest he should be considered - but such is the pool of talent, players don't have to earn spots in the current climate. his biggest worry will be injury hampering his development, much in the same way it has hampered our incumbent test all-rounder.

please become a selector! It is clear as day that Shaun is not a test cricketer.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Been watching Marsh field in ODI's, IPL and state cricket for years. He has always been poor.

Been watching him for years myself and I respectfully disagree.

 

[Scotland]

Didn't S Marsh have an injury preventing him from throwing/catching properly? Anyway seems odd to pick him if that was the case but he batted OK.

RE: Mitch Marsh, his test averages are a bit meaningless after 4 tests. If he plays for the red dot instead of swinging the bat in Adelaide for quick runs and his batting average is 40-45. He needs to convert his 40s into 50+ scores but he looks comfortable at test level. Likewise he only has one wicket to date, but has bowled economically and held up an end. Would he be be better if he had jagged some tailenders to get 4/20 then gone at 3-4 an over in his other innings?

 

[The Speaker]

Shaun Marsh is filler. He will continue to be around the Test team until we have batsmen that are better. He will end up with a Test average about the same as his FC average, because of the way he plays.

Mitch Marsh has the technique to play at three in the future. It will depend on how much bowling he does, his mental application and the balance of the team.

 

[Jak!x]

Shaun Marsh reminds me of Mark Waugh as a technically brilliant batsman who looks super lax out there. Could the reason for his failures be that he relaxes too much?

 

[QAFL_Fan]

Wash your mouth out.

Mark Waugh and Shaun Marshn couldn't be more different. Junior is one of the more underrated players of recent history, mainly due to his average of 41. I'd have him over Martyn, Hussey and plenty more with superior statistics.

His batting was a joy to watch, and he did his best work when the pitch was a minefield. His 115 vs SA on that dodgy wicket is an all-time great test innings.

He was also a superb fieldsman, where despite people protestations - Marsh is not. As recent evidence so kindly underlines.

 

[The Swans Blog]

Shaun Marsh reminds me of Mark Waugh as a technically brilliant batsman who looks super lax out there. Could the reason for his failures be that he relaxes too much?

Taking the piss surely?

 

[Belnakor]

Mark Waugh and Shaun Marshn couldn't be more different. Junior is one of the more underrated players of recent history, mainly due to his average of 41. I'd have him over Martyn, Hussey and plenty more with superior statistics.

Top score of 153 for Mark Waugh tells me his average is about what he deserves.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I thought Shaun showed progress this series in that he was consistent. He got starts and made useful contributions every match.....he didn't kick on as well as he could, but at least it's better than 120, 0, 0, 3, 0, 10, 1 that we used to see from him.

 

[Scotland]

Shaun Marsh isn't as good to watch nor as technically gifted as Mark Waugh was but he does inspire similar frustrations.

Seven players have scored between 7,000 and 10,000 test runs for Australia. Mark Waugh has the lowest average of the lot, and the lowest of anyone in the top 20. Of the batsmen to play 100+ tests, only Mark Taylor scored less centuries (one less in 24 less tests). I think 'Junior' is rated where he should be.

By my count Mark Waugh made consecutive (or more) single digit scores 11 times in his test career. 209 innings, 57 scores less than 10. He might not end up averaging 40+ but I could totally see Shaun Marsh managing that if given 100 more tests.

 

[The Swans Blog]

Shaun Marsh isn't as good to watch nor as technically gifted as Mark Waugh was but he does inspire similar frustrations.

Seven players have scored between 7,000 and 10,000 test runs for Australia. Mark Waugh has the lowest average of the lot, and the lowest of anyone in the top 20. Of the batsmen to play 100+ tests, only Mark Taylor scored less centuries (one less in 24 less tests). I think 'Junior' is rated where he should be.

By my count Mark Waugh made consecutive (or more) single digit scores 11 times in his test career. 209 innings, 57 scores less than 10. He might not end up averaging 40+ but I could totally see Shaun Marsh managing that if given 100 more tests.

He's already 31 I doubt he'll get 30 more tests, let alone a dozen.

Comparisons between Shaun and Junior are surely taking the piss. With Mark Waugh you've got a guy who could bat (albeit 1 in every 4 innings completely **** it up), could bowl an over or two if he had to and take an occasional wicket (1 every 2 tests, or about 1 every 4 innings) and was a phenomenal fielder, probably one of the very best fielders you'll have ever seen in action. He held the record for most catches taken in test cricket by a non-wicket keeper until 2009. This guy was a machine! Sure, he was lazy when he batted and was prone to soft dismissals, but comparing him to Shaun Marsh is a ****ing insult (not having a go at you).

Let's see basic comparison:
- Junior could bowl, Shaun cannot.
- Junior could bat, Shaun can sometimes.
- Both are prone to soft dismissals
- Junior one of the best field catchers you'll ever see, Shaun couldn't catch it if it was lobbed to him by a 5 year old.

Add to that, Waugh, alongside Gilchrist, was probably one of the best ODI batsman that's played the game.

Shaun Marsh compared to Mark Waugh... piss off guys get your hands off of it.

 

[Scotland]

He's already 31 I doubt he'll get 30 more tests, let alone a dozen.

Shane Watson board.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Wash your mouth out.

Mark Waugh and Shaun Marshn couldn't be more different. Junior is one of the more underrated players of recent history, mainly due to his average of 41. I'd have him over Martyn, Hussey and plenty more with superior statistics.

His batting was a joy to watch, and he did his best work when the pitch was a minefield. His 115 vs SA on that dodgy wicket is an all-time great test innings.

He was also a superb fieldsman, where despite people protestations - Marsh is not. As recent evidence so kindly underlines.

Mark Waugh is not under-rated.

His innings at PE was incredible - however let's not overstate things. He averaged 41 when his contemporaries averaged significantly more.

Martyn batted us to a series victory in India on spinning minefields. (And gillespie as well)

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Get the feeling you don't like Shaun Marsh chunkychicken?

 

[bird_man]

Been watching him for years myself and I respectfully disagree.

Been watching him average 35 at FC level for how long?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Been watching him average 35 at FC level for how long?

What does that have to do with his fielding?

 

[The Swans Blog]

Get the feeling you don't like Shaun Marsh chunkychicken?

I don't have any personal feeling towards the matter, I just think he's not at the required level to play international test cricket. A few decent innings aside, he's usually piss poor with the bat and his fielding is bad.

Comparing S.Marsh to M.Waugh is absurd.

 

[frankrizzo]

Don't really know what to make of mitch marsh just yet, he has potential for sure but from what i can gather this isn't exactly the first time he's gone down injured so can we really commit to him as the 5th bowler/number 6 bat if he is even more injury prone than watto?

The battle for that spot in the ashes might be decided not be excellence on the field but simply by which one of the two can actually stay fit for more than 2 games without breaking down.

 

[Watson_my_mind]

Shaun Marsh is required as long as there is still **** all players banging down the door at domestic level. Get with the times, not every batsmen in our team is going to average 45+ anymore. New era. Marsh batted well in his last two tests. He should start in WI.