The Butterfly Effect

[silence ofthe Robert]

In the afterglow of our recent dalliance with Danny Frawley and remembering how players and coaches have broken our hearts these last 22 years, I have been pondering, Who was the ****wit who sacked Tommy Hafey. Caro's dad wasn't it or was it the venerable G. Richmond. Consensus was that Tommy couldn't coach and rode on the initial work of Len Smith. Consensus of course as usual was wrong as Tommy proved at Collingwood & the Swans in particular. What would have happened if Tommy would have stayed. First he would have been in charge of possibly Richmond's most talented side in the late 70's and early 80.s- Roach, Cloke, Taylor, Weightman, Bartlett, Lee, Rioli, Raines, Jess, Malthouse, Wiley, Monteath, etc etc.

Instead of having two boneheads in charge at the time in Jewell and Bourke (forgive me St Francis for I have sinned - you were a great player) we could have had a real coach harnessing these great talents. As it was these players still made two grand finals. An amazing feat when you consider that Jewell was coaching ( We all know of course that TJ is the only coach in history to lead two different clubs to the wooden spoon). In 1982 Tommy would have started Jess at CHB, Cloke at CHF, Taylor at FF and Roachey somewhere else and we would have won. Probably would have been contenders in 79 and 81, although we would have thrashed someone other than Collingwood in 1980.

Tommy was a players man and the players loved Tommy. Raines, Taylor and Cloke would have stayed at the tiges and the crazy bidding war in the 80's with Collingwood that sent us broke and made us nearly extinct would never have happened. A Tommy led Tiger team would have seriously challenged the Bombers (maybe Sheeds would have stayed on as assistant a bit longer) and Hawthorn. Richmond's midfield would have been boasted by Tiger 5 time brownlow medallist Greg Williams who Tommy would have picked up for a song. Remember that Tommy gave away speedy Geelong West player Fraser Murphy (who was zoned to the Cats) for this young slow 'hack' Williams (who kept getting the ball and delivering lace up) who was tied to the Blues and Parkin thought was not up to VFL/AFL standard. Interesting insight into Coaches understanding of what makes a good footballer.

Anyway to finish up, Tommy might have retired in 1990 with about 10 premierships up his sleeve, and with the tigers rolling in money, handing over to a young Malthouse or Sheedy, and we probably would have snagged another couple in the 90's.

But then again these are the thoughts of a mere uninformed supporter, and not the genius who *****ed Tommy and the Tigers in 1976.

 

[oxx]

Nice read Tommy.
Agree!

 

[Darth_Tiger]

you know what. im glad we dont know. it would be depressing i reckon. to think what might have been! the past 25 years couldnt have been any worse could they? not by much i reckon.

 

[Heisenberg_]

I feel depressed now from reading that.
What could have been

 

[nut]

If one us could just build that time machine, we could go back in time and prevent his sacking.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

imagine the entry in the history books ...the time machine was invented by nut in 2005 to fill his desperate need to erase 25 years of underperforming by his favourite sports team. using the machine he went back in time to warn the richmond football club... if only...

 

[Crumden]

He wasn't sacked. The board voted to keep him but it wasn't a unanimous decision (GR voted against keeping him). Tommy resigned because he didn't have full support. The club lost quite a few senior players at the end of '75 and finished just outside the top 5 in '76, so it was pretty ordinary not to give him full support. Barry Richardson was actuallly the replacement coach.

 

[cairo tiger]

look hte funny thing is that i think tommy woul dhave continued to coach well into the 90's such is his great simple game plan. Who emulated it well everyone....the thing is tommy still loves the tigers always will he probably has been an equal influence on footy as barras and sheeds.

Tommy hafey, richmond legeeeeeend

 

[silence ofthe Robert]

Tommy thinks he was sacked.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

not having the support of GR would be the same thing as being sacked wouldnt it?

 

[SaveFeriss]

Greame Richmond was strongly behind and basicially masterminded moving the Tigers to the Gold Coast in 1986...

His motivations were to make a truckload off cash from one A. Bond who's had a lot of brewing interests were in Qld at the time.
And you thought Bond didn't know Weightmans name because he was ignorant...

WRONG!

He didnt know his name because he had nothing to do with the 'bigger picture'!


KB, The Whale, Jack Dyer among others saved the RFC from G. Richmonds evil, and greedy plan in the mid 80's.

 

[oxx]

This is turning into a lovely little thread.

 

[peejay]

In the afterglow of our recent dalliance with Danny Frawley and remembering how players and coaches have broken our hearts these last 22 years, I have been pondering, Who was the ****wit who sacked Tommy Hafey. Caro's dad wasn't it or was it the venerable G. Richmond. Consensus was that Tommy couldn't coach and rode on the initial work of Len Smith. Consensus of course as usual was wrong as Tommy proved at Collingwood & the Swans in particular. What would have happened if Tommy would have stayed. First he would have been in charge of possibly Richmond's most talented side in the late 70's and early 80.s- Roach, Cloke, Taylor, Weightman, Bartlett, Lee, Rioli, Raines, Jess, Malthouse, Wiley, Monteath, etc etc.

Instead of having two boneheads in charge at the time in Jewell and Bourke (forgive me St Francis for I have sinned - you were a great player) we could have had a real coach harnessing these great talents. As it was these players still made two grand finals. An amazing feat when you consider that Jewell was coaching ( We all know of course that TJ is the only coach in history to lead two different clubs to the wooden spoon). In 1982 Tommy would have started Jess at CHB, Cloke at CHF, Taylor at FF and Roachey somewhere else and we would have won. Probably would have been contenders in 79 and 81, although we would have thrashed someone other than Collingwood in 1980.

Tommy was a players man and the players loved Tommy. Raines, Taylor and Cloke would have stayed at the tiges and the crazy bidding war in the 80's with Collingwood that sent us broke and made us nearly extinct would never have happened. A Tommy led Tiger team would have seriously challenged the Bombers (maybe Sheeds would have stayed on as assistant a bit longer) and Hawthorn. Richmond's midfield would have been boasted by Tiger 5 time brownlow medallist Greg Williams who Tommy would have picked up for a song. Remember that Tommy gave away speedy Geelong West player Fraser Murphy (who was zoned to the Cats) for this young slow 'hack' Williams (who kept getting the ball and delivering lace up) who was tied to the Blues and Parkin thought was not up to VFL/AFL standard. Interesting insight into Coaches understanding of what makes a good footballer.

Anyway to finish up, Tommy might have retired in 1990 with about 10 premierships up his sleeve, and with the tigers rolling in money, handing over to a young Malthouse or Sheedy, and we probably would have snagged another couple in the 90's.

But then again these are the thoughts of a mere uninformed supporter, and not the genius who *****ed Tommy and the Tigers in 1976.

Yeah and if houlihan and hudson were good players we would have won the flag in 2002.

That and what you have said have equal weight IMO - both garbage

 

[madtiger2005]

the only garbage is u peejay

 

[LoyalTiger]

In the afterglow of our recent dalliance with Danny Frawley and remembering how players and coaches have broken our hearts these last 22 years, I have been pondering, Who was the ****wit who sacked Tommy Hafey. Caro's dad wasn't it or was it the venerable G. Richmond. Consensus was that Tommy couldn't coach and rode on the initial work of Len Smith. Consensus of course as usual was wrong as Tommy proved at Collingwood & the Swans in particular. What would have happened if Tommy would have stayed. First he would have been in charge of possibly Richmond's most talented side in the late 70's and early 80.s- Roach, Cloke, Taylor, Weightman, Bartlett, Lee, Rioli, Raines, Jess, Malthouse, Wiley, Monteath, etc etc.

Instead of having two boneheads in charge at the time in Jewell and Bourke (forgive me St Francis for I have sinned - you were a great player) we could have had a real coach harnessing these great talents. As it was these players still made two grand finals. An amazing feat when you consider that Jewell was coaching ( We all know of course that TJ is the only coach in history to lead two different clubs to the wooden spoon). In 1982 Tommy would have started Jess at CHB, Cloke at CHF, Taylor at FF and Roachey somewhere else and we would have won. Probably would have been contenders in 79 and 81, although we would have thrashed someone other than Collingwood in 1980.

Tommy was a players man and the players loved Tommy. Raines, Taylor and Cloke would have stayed at the tiges and the crazy bidding war in the 80's with Collingwood that sent us broke and made us nearly extinct would never have happened. A Tommy led Tiger team would have seriously challenged the Bombers (maybe Sheeds would have stayed on as assistant a bit longer) and Hawthorn. Richmond's midfield would have been boasted by Tiger 5 time brownlow medallist Greg Williams who Tommy would have picked up for a song. Remember that Tommy gave away speedy Geelong West player Fraser Murphy (who was zoned to the Cats) for this young slow 'hack' Williams (who kept getting the ball and delivering lace up) who was tied to the Blues and Parkin thought was not up to VFL/AFL standard. Interesting insight into Coaches understanding of what makes a good footballer.

Anyway to finish up, Tommy might have retired in 1990 with about 10 premierships up his sleeve, and with the tigers rolling in money, handing over to a young Malthouse or Sheedy, and we probably would have snagged another couple in the 90's.

But then again these are the thoughts of a mere uninformed supporter, and not the genius who *****ed Tommy and the Tigers in 1976.

Yesterday is history,
Tomorrow is a mystery,
Today is a gift thats why they call it the present!

The Richmond Football Club has in its hands to this day a "gift"...........Opportunity!

*A football department lead by Greg Miller that has set the path to regaining
RESPECT!
*A coach in Terry Wallace with passion for football,the club and hell bent on team and individual success within the team!and just as importantly not prepared to carry any passengers not equal in passion and determination.
*Choices in the november draft and preseason draft that allow the club to bring in quality change in playing personnel.
*A core of current playing staff that want to be Tigers.....we have been down
but the group that remains have not lost their ability but their confidence!We have the coach to rebuild their confidence!
*Lets not forget our supporter base........tell me which other club has our passion?Yellow and Black is not life or death.....for it is much more than that!
*When success comes to Punt Road it will be a victory for the true believers the people who even in the difficult times have kept the faith......we have been put down,stepped on and told we are no good!But we have remained strong for ourselves ,each other,the players and THE CLUB!We build our reward from here .......our new history of success

The enviroment is taking shape....the personnel arrives and the new history is now to begin...time to focus not on what could have been but rather what we can make it be from now moving foward.Now is our time to ask not what our club can do for us but what WE ALL can do for our club!!!!!!!!!

Let our history serve as an inspiration and determination to be better. bigger and the best leading to a celebration of not just success but living visable action of the way the game is meant to be played....hard tough,aggressive and attacking,where personal sacrifice is the norm and toil and effort for team and teammate is the goal!
It is about what is inside the jumper today(that is Richmond passion,guts and determination) that provides the history and inspiration for future Yellow and Black generations.........That is The Life Of The TIGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cairo tiger]

gezz can you send me some tissues to egypt this young lad or young lassie has encapulated the very chi of our club and i for one am moved.....good one....lets get together behind the tiger and roarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

as for pj where have you been hiding

 

[Weaver]

An amazing feat when you consider that Jewell was coaching ( We all know of course that TJ is the only coach in history to lead two different clubs to the wooden spoon).

Ronald Dale Barassi?

Anyone a team is not about one man. Len Smith came up with the gameplan and Graeme Richmond found the players and the loopholes in the rules. Tommy Hafey was a great coach but was never able to innovate and never won a premiership without GR finding the players for him.

You might vote for the "Hafey going cost us premiership theory", personally I sign up for the "Hafey going allowed us to milk one more out of a veteran line-up theory".

Notice you don't mention that when Tom Hafey had his chance to show us up in 1980 he not only lost, but lost by a then record margin of 80-ish points. Also that despite having millions to spend at Sydney he couldn't deliver for them either.

Great man and great coach, but time passed him by.

 

[Croat tiger]

can't dwell in hindsight because it can send you crazy.past is past and it's
time to rebuild for the future.terry is the our new hafey and let's all ride his
train for a while and see where it takes us.i'm sure there is light at the end
of the tunnel,so let's get on board tiger fans and buy your membership!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

There is so many what if,s in football and hindsight is a wonderful thing.Tommy is a legend of the club as is held in high regard at Tigerland.Did he crack the sh$ts over his treatment by the club? NO! unlike one other self centred former player who still cant get over his sacking.
Tommy had a great career at the club with both himself and the club getting the best out of each other.
His legacy is 2nd only to the great Jack Dyer

cheers!

 

[tommy t]

The only problem with this is that Hafey was not sacked. He walked as he thought he did not have the key support of two individuals.

 

[peejay]

the only garbage is u peejay

is that the sum total of your contribution to this discussion ????


My point is that looking back with benefit of hindsight is as about as useful as ... well i don't know what. But hey it is pre season and until the drafts there is not a lot to talk about.

I just disagree with what the original statement was trying to say.

I would hate to think of what our record would have been like if Graeme Richmond would not have been around. We would have ben in the swans/ Fitzroy league as far as preimership droughts go.

 

[peejay]

as for pj where have you been hiding

Not hiding, just quietly living my life. probably like you i lived through all the success and enjoyed it and hated the last twenty years.

i just think that the original post seemed to want to blame the wrong guy and whilst cannonising (spelling?) another. Don't think that is the way to go.

 

[silence ofthe Robert]

Ronald Dale Barassi?

Anyone a team is not about one man. Len Smith came up with the gameplan and Graeme Richmond found the players and the loopholes in the rules. Tommy Hafey was a great coach but was never able to innovate and never won a premiership without GR finding the players for him.

You might vote for the "Hafey going cost us premiership theory", personally I sign up for the "Hafey going allowed us to milk one more out of a veteran line-up theory".

Notice you don't mention that when Tom Hafey had his chance to show us up in 1980 he not only lost, but lost by a then record margin of 80-ish points. Also that despite having millions to spend at Sydney he couldn't deliver for them either.

Great man and great coach, but time passed him by.

Problem with this analysis is that it implies that Jewell was a better bet as coach than Hafey, Bourke was a better bet than Hafey, Patterson was a better bet than Hafey, Sproule was a better bet, Jewell again was a better bet, Bartlett was a better bet and an ill Jeans was a better bet.

Re Hafey & Collingwood. The Pies finished last in 1976. With the addition of only two players to the squad (Magro was one) Tommy took the pies from last to first after the Home & Aways in 1977. Most agree that if Fabulous Phil Carmen would not have been suspended in the PF, Collingwood would have won the flag that year. Tommy took an ordinary squad to 4 grand finals (5 if you count the draw). Re 1980 GF of course Richmond won, that was my point. It was an enormously talented squad inspired by the greatest finals performance of all time by Bartlett (21 goals from a half forward flank in 3 games) playing against an ordinary squad who were trying to make history winning the flag from 5th, having played and won 3 elimination finals to get to the GF.

Re Hafey & Swans - you may fool the youngsters but dont try to fool the old fellas. The Sydney Swans were formed in 1982 with a millionaire doctor in charge, boutique wife, pink helicopters and dancing girls. The VFL/AFL bent over in making the national venture a "success" pouring in money but they were a joke on the field and in Sydney. Poor attendances, hopeless team and the Swans/AFL turned to Hafey. Yes Hafey took some players with him from Geelong - Williams & Toohey and also Healy form Melbourne. I also remember him being critisized for those choices - people suggesting he should have invested more in talls. The players he took over ended up winning three brownlows and he took the Swans from no hopers to top three in his first two years. Crowds were 40 thousand plus and the Swans played some dazzling footy. Weaver also forgot to say that in those years interstate teams didn't get home finals. The Swans had to play all their finals away and they had a game tailor made for the SCG. They narrowly lost most of their finals and bombed out. I would suggest that with the great advantage they had at the SCG (I think they topped 200 points in a game three games in a row there- one against us I think) playing home finals would have led to a GF appearance.

In effect Hafey saved the Swans and probably the national competition. While the Swans were playing finals in 86 and 87 under Hafey we were going broke and finishing last under Jewell. I am having a lot of trouble understanding Weaver's logic that time had passed Tommy by. I could understand it if we had moved forward but we slid into the abyss.

Finally re the future - I am forever hopeful and optimistic and an opportunity now exists before the tiges, but we must remember that history is a great teacher and if we do not learn from the mistakes history has shown us we are doomed to repeat them.

 

[1980]

Ronald Dale Barassi?

Anyone a team is not about one man. Len Smith came up with the gameplan and Graeme Richmond found the players and the loopholes in the rules. Tommy Hafey was a great coach but was never able to innovate and never won a premiership without GR finding the players for him.

You might vote for the "Hafey going cost us premiership theory", personally I sign up for the "Hafey going allowed us to milk one more out of a veteran line-up theory".

Notice you don't mention that when Tom Hafey had his chance to show us up in 1980 he not only lost, but lost by a then record margin of 80-ish points. Also that despite having millions to spend at Sydney he couldn't deliver for them either.

Great man and great coach, but time passed him by.

Nice one weaver. GR got the best available players down to Punt Rd. He travelled everywhere all over the state, sometimes bringing Jack Dyer with him to get players like Barry Richardson.

Tommy also deserves credit for being a great coach.

And to think that for 20 years, we've learnt nothing from the legacies these guys created at Punt Rd.

 

[Crumden]

GR had his methodology, but stuck to it for too long at any cost, and the club has suffered his legacy for far too long. Silence of the robert is right, we would be far better off today if GR got the boot at the end of 76 instead of tee shirt Tommy.