The change is a coming !

[cricketnut14]

While the WTC final was a one off game , many emotions are heightened at the moment.

This cycle only saw the retirement of Warner and the selectors seemingly finished Marsh's test career.

It is just about inevitable that during or by the end of this WTC cycle for Australia, will spell the end of several careers.

this cycle includes:
v WI (3) - A
v Eng (5) - H
an 8 month break and then a hectic schedule of 21 tests in a 12 month period.
v Bang (2) - H
v SA (3) - A
v NZ (4) - H
v Ind (5) - A
v Eng (1) - H - not part of the WTC - 150th anniversary test
WTC Final (1) - A (if we qualify)
v Eng (5) - A

so the next 3 test tours after the west indies are SA, India and England.

*Khawaja - ideal time would be to finish at the end of this summer (form permitting) as he would be 39 and almost 40 before the following series.
*Starc will be 36 at the end of this summer, Hazlewood 35 and Boland 37.

*Smith and Lyon are the interesting ones, if Lyon makes it through, he'll be just shy of 40 and only a decent home summer from reeling in warnie's 708. For Smith it's a case of whether he wants to revisit South Africa (it'll have been 8 years since sandpaper gate as the previous tour was cancelled during covid) and whether he tries one more time to be part of a series win in India and England.

You'd think Cummins, Head and (Marnus, Webster, Carey) may be about form permitting.

Good news is that we have do have depth and it will provide others with opportunities.


Ok guys, who won't make it to the ashes 2027? Love to hear everyone's thoughts.

For me I'll say Khawaja, Hazlewood, Starc, Boland (and Marsh) won't make it for the bangladesh series and will be done and certainly won't see them back in england again, whether that's in a WTC final or the ashes.

 

[to1994]

If you asked me 12 months ago, I would've really wanted Smith to retire after The Ashes so he ends on a relative high and doesn't go down the Ponting route of hanging around for too long.

However his recent form suggests his previous struggles were a slump and he has more to give. If he's out of the Windies tour, the idea that he only has 5 more Tests left feels like he'd be giving it away too soon.

Back in 2012 we were in a similar situation where there was a massive schedule of Tests (including India/England away) coming up and Ponting rightly retired as he was past it and we still had the experience of Mike Hussey in the team... and then Hussey also retired leaving us with only Clarke for what ended up being a pretty rough series of away tours with some really weak batting.

I hope serious conversations are had with Smith and he agrees to play through this hectic schedule while we re-build the team around him. If he does that and performs even half as well as he's doing currently it'd be quite a legacy.

 

[PhatBoy]

If you asked me 12 months ago, I would've really wanted Smith to retire after The Ashes so he ends on a relative high and doesn't go down the Ponting route of hanging around for too long.

However his recent form suggests his previous struggles were a slump and he has more to give. If he's out of the Windies tour, the idea that he only has 5 more Tests left feels like he'd be giving it away too soon.

Back in 2012 we were in a similar situation where there was a massive schedule of Tests (including India/England away) coming up and Ponting rightly retired as he was past it and we still had the experience of Mike Hussey in the team... and then Hussey also retired leaving us with only Clarke for what ended up being a pretty rough series of away tours with some really weak batting.

I hope serious conversations are had with Smith and he agrees to play through this hectic schedule while we re-build the team around him. If he does that and performs even half as well as he's doing currently it'd be quite a legacy.

England don’t have the attack to exploit any slight downturn Smith is having.

He seemed to have had a really sharp drop off for a reasonably extended period but he’s arrested that: I don’t know that he’s quite back to, or ever will be, back to that level of imperious control that he had at his best but he’s still comfortably the best batsman in the team and Carse, Atkinson, Potts, Tongue, and (muffled laughter) Bashir aren’t going to change that. God help the summer if England bring Woakes out for another attempt to get his away average below 50.

Mark Wood is the only bowler I could see testing him extensively, or maybe Atkinson if the conditions suit.

So really I would expect him to make 400+ again at least through the Ashes. If he does that he’d have no reason not to keep going while the rest of the order tries to sort itself out.

I’d be more worried about Travis Head, of the senior ones. Not that he’s going anywhere - he’s not - but he really needs to, in order to maximise his value to the side, tighten up a bit. Hes lethal against bowling that affords him any freedom and I actually don’t see anything wrong with him getting out to a ball that he has a lusty swing at etc. He seems so fixated on imposing himself though that it’s almost like he gets taken by surprise when he gets a good ball, though, and he doesn’t handle them well. He didn’t have that problem before. He’s actually got a really good technique

 

[Gough]

Sam Cooke per Rick Danko.

 

[Cleavy]

Aussies forced into squad change for Caribbean Test tour | cricket.com.au

Sean Abbott has been recalled to the Test squad after an injury to fast bowler Brendan Doggett

www.cricket.com.au

this wasn't what we had in mind...

 

[Mr5000]

Aussies forced into squad change for Caribbean Test tour | cricket.com.au

Sean Abbott has been recalled to the Test squad after an injury to fast bowler Brendan Doggett

www.cricket.com.au

this wasn't what we had in mind...

I thought he was replacing Smith so I got really mad but lets be realistic Doggett was never going to get a gig and nor will Abbott.

 

[beatnik]

Yes, lots of changes on the horizon…

Hopefully Marnus goes away to find form and comes back a Test player but he’s got some challenges in front of him…Khwaja and Smith near the end too

Konstas to open permanently and perhaps Marcus Harris gets another look once Aussie finishes…are there any other opening options on the radar?

Does Green stay at 3 or does Head move up? Perhaps Trav moves to 4 once Smith hangs em up and Inglis could get a look in at 5 and keep Webster at 6.

Barring a bolter, that’s probably how our batting looks in 12-18 months.

Bowling is harder - we could lose Starc and Horse…Bartlett? Johnson? Richardson? Abbot?

I don’t claim to know a great deal about our fast bowling stocks so will defer to others but we have options if Lyon declines.

We’ll still be a solid team during the transition but I can’t see us being dominant…better enjoy it while we can!

 

[cricketnut14]

i think we don't really know what we've got unless they get opportunities.

i think our fast bowling stocks are in good order - although hard act to follow some of our all time greats.

it's our batting 'order' that is more the talking point.

i think it's fair to say selectors clearly don't want to revisit bancroft and harris , especially if it's the top order that's a concern. it's not as if there hasn't been opportunities with smith, head, labs, mcsweeney filling holes at the top.

if we all consider smith, head and green certainties in the top 6 - it doesn't leave many spots left for webster, konstas, inglis, mcsweeney (usman, labs) and any other top order bat you want to throw in there.

We do need to unearth a couple of genuine batsmen, as opposed to allrounder types and wicketkeeping batsmen.

Hopefully with more 'A' series can shine a light on a few of them.

 

[Coops93]

We should've started the transition in batting sooner, taking out Khawajas 200 against Sri Lanka he averages in the 20s over the past 2 yrs. The 2nd opener spot has been a problem since even before Warner retired and I'm still not convinced we've actually tried hard to fill the spot properly. The idea of the best 6 batters play and they fit where we put them was never going to work. I think outside of the top 3 batting is ok, Smith and Head are good at 4 and 5 and Webster seems solid enough at 6.

The key is all of the top 3 are cooked and we've tried to solve the issue by putting 4s and 5s in there. We need real openers. There's not a natural 3 to come in so that spot may have to be played with. Sure he's a firebrand but Konstas should have been given an extended go in the spot. The form to get selected was there, and even though things got a bit mental in the India series he should've been persisted with.

I agree with what Whately said re Marnus, he should've been dropped last year. He likely gets back in the team by now anyway, but the message would be sent and hopefully he'd have scored domestic runs.

The square peg in all this is what to do with Green? It looked like he sorted his spot at no.4, but he went and got injured and then Smith turned back into Smith. Greens not a 3 or opener, he's a 4 or 5. But, to be in the team, he probably has to bat in the top 3, as shaky as he is there.

Given that, I think we need 2 real openers, not 2 middle order bats having a go. Especially if Green is persisted with at 3.

As for the bowlers, I'm not sure what the next wave will be. If I had to guess I'd say we're more likely to see a few of the u19s WC class get a go sooner rather than later as I'm not sure there's a lot of elite talent in the 24-30 range right now. We seem to persist with Abbott as next in line, but he's nowhere near test level, so if that's the path we do down I won't be very excited.

 

[Westend]

We should've started the transition in batting sooner, taking out Khawajas 200 against Sri Lanka he averages in the 20s over the past 2 yrs. The 2nd opener spot has been a problem since even before Warner retired and I'm still not convinced we've actually tried hard to fill the spot properly. The idea of the best 6 batters play and they fit where we put them was never going to work. I think outside of the top 3 batting is ok, Smith and Head are good at 4 and 5 and Webster seems solid enough at 6.

The key is all of the top 3 are cooked and we've tried to solve the issue by putting 4s and 5s in there. We need real openers. There's not a natural 3 to come in so that spot may have to be played with. Sure he's a firebrand but Konstas should have been given an extended go in the spot. The form to get selected was there, and even though things got a bit mental in the India series he should've been persisted with.

I agree with what Whately said re Marnus, he should've been dropped last year. He likely gets back in the team by now anyway, but the message would be sent and hopefully he'd have scored domestic runs.

The square peg in all this is what to do with Green? It looked like he sorted his spot at no.4, but he went and got injured and then Smith turned back into Smith. Greens not a 3 or opener, he's a 4 or 5. But, to be in the team, he probably has to bat in the top 3, as shaky as he is there.

Given that, I think we need 2 real openers, not 2 middle order bats having a go. Especially if Green is persisted with at 3.

As for the bowlers, I'm not sure what the next wave will be. If I had to guess I'd say we're more likely to see a few of the u19s WC class get a go sooner rather than later as I'm not sure there's a lot of elite talent in the 24-30 range right now. We seem to persist with Abbott as next in line, but he's nowhere near test level, so if that's the path we do down I won't be very excited.

To be fair he has had two innings at number 3 that lasted 5 balls....marnus has had the last 3 years and done f**k all

But when Greenie starts bowling again ....and he started in the nets in England he is aiming the start of the shield to start bowling again...and when he does otherwise what was the point of the surgery ???.....you can't have an allrounder at 3

 

[cricketnut14]

To be fair he has had two innings at number 3 that lasted 5 balls....marnus has had the last 3 years and done f**k all

But when Greenie starts bowling again ....and he started in the nets in England he is aiming the start of the shield to start bowling again...and when he does otherwise what was the point of the surgery ???.....you can't have an allrounder at 3

does green just go down the path of being a pure batsmen (like s.waugh/smith).

if green bowls, it puts a real squeeze on webster and he may become a victim of circumstance unless one of head/smith move up the order.

 

[Trojan90]

I think the order should be built around the following:

1. Konstas (Give him a good crack at it)
2. ? (Find another opener. A real opener, even if it's Harris.)
3. Smith (Strengthens the top 3, he can bat here no worries.)
4. Head (Free up the 5 where we have depth)
5. ? (Pretty comfortable spot for Green/Inglis/McSweeney - Any of these guys can move up the order as the spots free up)
6. Webster
7. Carey

 

[Coops93]

To be fair he has had two innings at number 3 that lasted 5 balls....marnus has had the last 3 years and done f**k all

But when Greenie starts bowling again ....and he started in the nets in England he is aiming the start of the shield to start bowling again...and when he does otherwise what was the point of the surgery ???.....you can't have an allrounder at 3

Iirc he only batted at 3 once in FC level and that was an order change in the 2nd innings. With the angle of his straight bat shots I don't love it long term. He's a better 4 or 5. As he's been an all-rounder it's all he's ever known, and to your point, if he bowls again surely he's got to slide back down.

There's a conversation to be had re his bowling. He's a very good bowler, but will his injuries be a forever thing or will his body settle ala Cummins and become reliable? Having an all-rounder bowl mid-high 130s at 2m tall is a huge advantage so I wouldn't want to be giving that away without due consideration.

 

[Coops93]

I think the order should be built around the following:

1. Konstas (Give him a good crack at it)
2. ? (Find another opener. A real opener, even if it's Harris.)
3. Smith (Strengthens the top 3, he can bat here no worries.)
4. Head (Free up the 5 where we have depth)
5. ? (Pretty comfortable spot for Green/Inglis/McSweeney - Any of these guys can move up the order as the spots free up)
6. Webster
7. Carey

I think Head is a lower middle order bat, keep him out of the top 4. His stats when coming in before, and after, over 30 are dramatic. If he comes in after he's absolutely elite, if he comes in before he's a bit of a liability. Keep him at 5. I've always thought he would be a great 6, but you can't really have a specialist batter there, and we don't really have the luxury of good batters to have him there.

 

[Kyptastic]

Not a fan of them replacing Doggett with another 30+ fast bowler in the Windies Squad. Surely you've got to start looking at some of the longer term options for when the Big 3 retire - Fergus O'Neill must have done enough over the last couple of seasons to get a look in, for example.

 

[cricketnut14]

Not a fan of them replacing Doggett with another 30+ fast bowler in the Windies Squad. Surely you've got to start looking at some of the longer term options for when the Big 3 retire - Fergus O'Neill must have done enough over the last couple of seasons to get a look in, for example.

doubt that's an issue - they ain't getting in front of the big 3 or boland on this tour, regardless who it was.

o'neill is gonna be hard to ignore with another good shield season - is it his lack of pace that worry the selectors ?

 

[Westend]

does green just go down the path of being a pure batsmen (like s.waugh/smith).

if green bowls, it puts a real squeeze on webster and he may become a victim of circumstance unless one of head/smith move up the order.

well why get the surgery then ??

he could've given up bowling not get the surgery and just be a straight up bat he could've played last summer ....so answer to your question no he is still an allrounder thats what CA wants

 

[Walt Kowalski]

I think the bowlers will sort themselves out over time. At present, Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood and Lyon are still going well. There is a great reserve in Boland, who comes in and does well every time. As one gets injured or loses form/pace, they can be replaced. A fit Jhai Richardson would be amazing.

But in terms of batting, what about selecting guys who are making runs in the shield, at a good average, in the positions they bat in? There is no reason to not drop Khawaja (who in fairness, if dropped, is done), but especially Labuschagne, who should be expected to make shield runs before he is re-selected. It must be frustrating for guys in the shield putting up strong seasons watching test #3s averaging 20 over two years. I'd also really like to see some aggression at the top of the order.

Something like:

J Weatherald
S Konstas
K Patterson
S Smith
T Head
B Webster
A Carey

I think while Smith is still in the team, and in form, it'd be nice to select some guys in their 20s that he can guide, so I understand why McSweeney and Green should be priorities, but in order to succeed in tests, you need a season or two averaging closer to 50 than 40 in the shield, surely?

 

[Mr5000]

Konstas and Weatherald how we have fallen...

If you want aggression at the top just play Head as opener.

 

[Cleavy]

Konstas and Weatherald how we have fallen...

If you want aggression at the top just play Head as opener.

who do you want to replace him with for aggression in the middle then?

 

[Walt Kowalski]

Konstas and Weatherald how we have fallen...

If you want aggression at the top just play Head as opener.

Head should be at 5/6 always, unless we're in the subcontinent.

 

[Westend]

who do you want to replace him with for aggression in the middle then?

an option