the cold hard truth

[TOOs_Finest]

drafting is great but we cant keep offloading players who are entering in their prime and keep drafting 18 yo kids, its just stupid.

need to pluck from the VFL/ WAFL, west perth and clarement are having great seasons over here, perhaps some key defenders could be acquired.

josh mellinton also looks a likely type with West Perth this year, rangey tall who is still only 19 or 20. it goes against what i just said but we need to be picking a ruckman/ KPP who has some runs on the board so to speak.

then we can plug the holes while the younger brigade develops

Dya think the Dockers will notice if we borrow one of their players?

 

[Bojangles17]

Foley would make probably every afl team. Mcguane would make most too I reckon. Here's some defenders who Mcguane may be better 1 on 1 than and probably no worse in composure/skill

Rivers(melb)
Schofield(wc)
Thomson(north)
Lonergan(geel)
Robert-Thomson(syd)
Henderson(carl)
Mcguire(bris)
Pears(ess)
Williams(foots)
Carlisle(port)
Dawson(st kil)
Gilham(haw)
Silvagni(freo)

Mcguane is no where near as bad as our supporters make him out to be. Our defence is one of the most bombarded defences every season. We'd be alot worse off without Mcguane. It's time our supporters stopped taking everything for granted

madness, i accept every club has a mcguane or edwards on there list my contention is they don't play ea week like they do at RFC. Take edwards, he is not unlike Kane tenace at the cats, sure he had some great qualities but his flaws prevented him from making his mark on AFL footy...he played 5 or 6 games a year in his time...edwards is same type and plays week in week out ...read the same for mcguane...he should have 3 better defenders in front of him at RFC and only coming in at times of need...sadly he is picked ea week...so that said is it any wonder we're struggling

 

[captain blood 17]

Foley would be a good trade for Hawthorn and St Kilda, do they have anything we need?

 

[Bojangles17]

there'd be a stack of interest in Foley, 2 reasons, one coz he is 12 months on from an injury return and secondly many clubs would bank on extracting more from him in their respective environment than RFC could

 

[tigerdan]

Not every player has to be either a gun or a dud.

McGuane is like many, he has played some good games and some bad ones. He's got a bit of the John Howat about him. Not a great player but has to get picked each week.

Foley is just out of form. He may never get back to the way he was (a lot like Cogs), but that's life. The club will know whether his body is shot or not. If not, they would surely keep him next year.

 

[mitch richmond]

drafting is great but we cant keep offloading players who are entering in their prime and keep drafting 18 yo kids, its just stupid.

need to pluck from the VFL/ WAFL, west perth and clarement are having great seasons over here, perhaps some key defenders could be acquired.

josh mellinton also looks a likely type with West Perth this year, rangey tall who is still only 19 or 20. it goes against what i just said but we need to be picking a ruckman/ KPP who has some runs on the board so to speak.

then we can plug the holes while the younger brigade develops

Great post.
I hope Hardwick doesn't do what we usually do and continue to give blokes experience until they're 22/23 and then send them on their way so they can use their developed bodies in other sides eg Polo, Schulz, Tambling etc.... The biggest gap on our list is between our 18-22s -Jack, Vickery, Martin, Cotch, Helbig, Batchelor, Edwards and the next group.
I'd redraft Adam Pattison from Box Hill if he doesn't go anywhere else. That 2004 draft crop from Richmond might turn out to be pretty good.

Lids - Gun
Tambo - Neil Craig is trying desperately to find the sweeping half back Adel need (at 24 it might be him)
Polo - Will play finals this year
Patto - I reckon in a massively compromised draft the best VFL ruckman might get picked
McGuane - He has his detractors but with Grimes, Astbury, Rance, Moore, Batchelor, Newman and Helbig in defence next year he might be a valuable swingman
Meyer - Most unlikely of the lot to develop but still on an AFL list

 

[Bojangles17]

polo had a good game tonight 23 possies, 7 tackles

 

[mitch richmond]

polo had a good game tonight 23 possies, 7 tackles

Yeah. Along with Schulz he is proof we mustn't develop them fully. Geelongs Premiership team were developed in the VFL. Their 2002 Premiership side comprised Gary Ablett, Steve Johnson, Paul Chapman, Josh Hunt, Jim Bartel and James Kelly.
People on here often call for the heads of Shane Edwards (22), Daniel Connors (22), Matty White (24), Luke McGuane (24) and Mitch Morton (24). Heaps of players don't peak until they're 25/26. Heck some people wanted to get rid of a 20 year old Alex Rance last year!

 

[mitch richmond]

polo had a good game tonight 23 possies, 7 tackles

Read Adam Pattisons answer to the second question on this interview.
http://www.boxhillhawks.com.au/news-read.aspx?NewsId=784

 

[JimmyRecard]

The cold hard truth is we have very few complete players.

So many on our list have qualities that are really good, but flaws which overshaddow them. These variances in abilities are the reasons why i think these players spark many differing opinions amongst supporters.

Edwards - Very evasive yet shanks the ball horribly.
White - Explosive pace yet with the ball in his hand is brain dead.
King - Hard at it but ordinary skills.
Nahas - Agile and explosive yet gets thrown off the ball to easily.
Farmer - Good attack on the football but lacks speed for the smalls and is ordinary by foot.
Mcguane - A good lead up defender E.G usually does well on Nick Riewoldt, yet has no decision making abilities or kicking techniques.

These are just a few examples, and im not oversimplifying it by saying we need a list of perfect players, rather, i think we have far to many players with a really good quality but an even worse flaw. And to me this explains why if where up where up, but if where down we lose to anyone and seem unable to pull ourself over the line. Every club indeed does have players with flaws but we just have far to many.

I look at a team like Hawthorn and they just seem to have so many natural footballers. Players like Birchall, Shiels, Savage, Whitecross, Suckling. These names are hardly stars but there all players with good skills and limited flaws, and taken later in the draft.

This is the type of players and depth we should be looking to draft.

 

[Dr Awkward]

I actually thought Mc Guane was one of the only decent players against GC.

 

[CoggaRules]

Yeah. Along with Schulz he is proof we mustn't develop them fully. Geelongs Premiership team were developed in the VFL. Their 2002 Premiership side comprised Gary Ablett, Steve Johnson, Paul Chapman, Josh Hunt, Jim Bartel and James Kelly.
People on here often call for the heads of Shane Edwards (22), Daniel Connors (22), Matty White (24), Luke McGuane (24) and Mitch Morton (24). Heaps of players don't peak until they're 25/26. Heck some people wanted to get rid of a 20 year old Alex Rance last year!

yes they might have been, but every so often when they were given their chance in the 1s, blind freddy could see what they had to offer. Thats why their names were known to all and sundry and not just the cats people.
There is a huge difference when you look at our draftees and then add the FACT that they were on the big stage week in week out, barring Meyer and the only ones that talked about them were tigerheads, barring Lids for what he offers and Tambling for every other reason outside what he had to offer.
I will repeat this one more time, in the words of the late great G. Richmond, you cant make strawberry jam out of shit. Its not just about waiting for bodies to grow and for players to reach a certain core age, its all about having what it takes before you embark on that development.

Whats this shit about Meyer and Shulz and Bling? I mean they are making up the numbers in sides that are bordering on b eing more shitful than us FFS.

 

[1980GFVideo]

Read Adam Pattisons answer to the second question on this interview.
http://www.boxhillhawks.com.au/news-read.aspx?NewsId=784

If you are referring to

With my time at the Saints it was just great to get another opportunity, I’m really grateful for my time there last year. Although I didn’t play a lot of games it was quite a special time now that I look back on it. It was a different dynamic to the Tigers; an older playing list, a successful team and just the mindset of the team and the club. At Richmond we were hoping to win, whereas at St.Kilda we were expecting to win. After coming off the grand final loss the players were on a mission and had unfinished business.

You would expect that it would be a shock going from a weaker team to a stronger team. It may really help Polo become a good player for the Saints.

Its a worry as to what StKilda young players walk into and what our young players walk into in regards to that type of thinking.

 

[NQTIGER]

Read Adam Pattisons answer to the second question on this interview.
http://www.boxhillhawks.com.au/news-read.aspx?NewsId=784

We have a losing CULTURE and until we get rid of that ALL the DEVELOPMENT in the world will not help us...........


And that aint no conspiracy theory.

Its intersting with the selections this week, maybe the coaching staff have finally realised that to improve you have to be competitive.

Its also interesting that dimma said this week that when they had the purple patch earlier in the season, it caught them by surprise......that tells me that they didnt expect the club to win games.....CULTURE?

Fancy saying that...

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Great post.
I hope Hardwick doesn't do what we usually do and continue to give blokes experience until they're 22/23 and then send them on their way so they can use their developed bodies in other sides eg Polo, Schulz, Tambling etc.... The biggest gap on our list is between our 18-22s -Jack, Vickery, Martin, Cotch, Helbig, Batchelor, Edwards and the next group.
I'd redraft Adam Pattison from Box Hill if he doesn't go anywhere else. That 2004 draft crop from Richmond might turn out to be pretty good.

Lids - Gun
Tambo - Neil Craig is trying desperately to find the sweeping half back Adel need (at 24 it might be him)
Polo - Will play finals this year
Patto - I reckon in a massively compromised draft the best VFL ruckman might get picked
McGuane - He has his detractors but with Grimes, Astbury, Rance, Moore, Batchelor, Newman and Helbig in defence next year he might be a valuable swingman
Meyer - Most unlikely of the lot to develop but still on an AFL list

There is a huge difference between AFL and VFL , and is the reason why some with limited abilities can play well at VFL level yet make no impact AFL level ?
All of the players you have mentioned above , bar Polo and Schulz , are and have always been extremely one dimensial and for that reason will never make it IMO !
Whilst at the club Hardwick has been very persistent in his bid to make players more rounded , which I think is a huge plus !
The last thing we need to do is start, in some regard, continue , to recruit one dimensial recycled or experienced state league players !

 

[Madtiger2006]

I actually thought Mc Guane was one of the only decent players against GC.

He was. He looks good when he tries to take the opposition on and go for a run. He hasn't turned the ball over for a few weeks really either. Once he gets to about 26 I reckon he'll be a more composed player and will have cut the turnovers out of his game. Should be a 10+ year player

 

[Bojangles17]

The cold hard truth is we have very few complete players.

So many on our list have qualities that are really good, but flaws which overshaddow them. These variances in abilities are the reasons why i think these players spark many differing opinions amongst supporters.

Edwards - Very evasive yet shanks the ball horribly.
White - Explosive pace yet with the ball in his hand is brain dead.
King - Hard at it but ordinary skills.
Nahas - Agile and explosive yet gets thrown off the ball to easily.
Farmer - Good attack on the football but lacks speed for the smalls and is ordinary by foot.
Mcguane - A good lead up defender E.G usually does well on Nick Riewoldt, yet has no decision making abilities or kicking techniques.

These are just a few examples, and im not oversimplifying it by saying we need a list of perfect players, rather, i think we have far to many players with a really good quality but an even worse flaw. And to me this explains why if where up where up, but if where down we lose to anyone and seem unable to pull ourself over the line. Every club indeed does have players with flaws but we just have far to many.

I look at a team like Hawthorn and they just seem to have so many natural footballers. Players like Birchall, Shiels, Savage, Whitecross, Suckling. These names are hardly stars but there all players with good skills and limited flaws, and taken later in the draft.

This is the type of players and depth we should be looking to draft.

we're on the same page jimmy, I accept everyones list has a few of these types , simply they arent the first selected ea week. My ONLY knock on dimma is that he should have put as much time into some of the more talented on our list such as Morton that are not encumbered by flaws in their game that will always challenge them from putting their stamp on the game. seems to me that the above have been given inordinate amount of chances yet a bloke that has some defensive ? on his game is left floundering...love to know how stevie johnson and milney would go at tigerland right now

you make a good point that hwathorn have done very well in drafting players that dont appear to be flawed, hopefully we too are zeroing in on that with the likes of Helbig...who with any luck will really benefit from another pre season under his belt

 

[folester41]

Having ebbed and flowed from fits of rage following the calamity in Cairns on saturday, they say the truth sets you free. It gives me no pleasure at all to say it , in fact it hurts like hell as many of the lads have tried their guts out but elite sport takes no prisoners...The reality of outr plight is half the side picked ea week is no bloody good at all with zip chance of improvement remaining.

The edwards
whites
foleys
mcguanes
brownes
jacksons
and so on are all liabilities and yeah ive prob protected a few more...so consider this when we approach ea week with half a side that are well short of the mark and it is much clearer why we are being pantsed.

All good though, we're much better for knowing this at r 17 or so...coz this should mean 10 changes to the list as opposed to the 5 or 6 they may have intended a month or so ago.

minus foley, i agree, these players need to be replaced.