Analysis The Engine Room

[Persevering Saint]

So, in a 22-man squad, how many people need to be part of the midfield rotations? Many people would probably argue something like about 8-10, with about 5-6 dedicated ball-winners, and the rest being part-timers taken from the wings, backline, or forwardline.

As an example, in the game between Hawks and Port (arguably two of the best teams in the comp) on the weekend, here were the clearance stats.

For the Hawks, they had: 1 with 7 clearances, 3 with 5 clearances, 2 with 3 clearances - so that's 6 major ballwinner, collecting 28 clearances. Then the part-timers: 4 with 2 clearances. And then another 4 just getting the 1 clearance, although that could just be luck of the draw.

For the Power, they had: 1 with 8 clearances, 1 with 6 clearances, 2 with 5 clearances, 1 with 3 clearances - again, that's 6 major ballwinners, collecting 27 clearances. Then the part-timers: 6 with 2 clearances. And then there's the 7 who scored a lucky 1 as well.

Based on that basic framework, how do you think our engine room is coming right now?

Looking at the game we won against Gold Coast, we had: Armo with 7, Steven, Savage, Dunstan and Sinclair with 3 - that's 5 players, collecting a total of 19 clearances. Geary, Longer, Billings and Lonie with 2, and then a string of non-mids with 1 (aside from Weller, who was tagging, Newnes and Curren).

That's our best effort. Significantly below Power or Hawks.

So, what's the future our of our midfield engine room? Who are the players in the 22 who have to step up a bit? Who are the players on the list who need to get into the 22 to help out? What kind of players do we need to recruit in order to help this get stronger?

 

[sauce_head]

I think it is understood we need another two superstar mids and hopefully we will get at least one of those in this years draft. I'm not a reader of the draft mega thread, but my understanding is the draft is not too deep this year. Therefore I'm not sure we will trade for an early pick to get the second mid, but could be wrong.

Any news how Gilbert is getting on with his foot?

 

[Saint Luke]

I think if all goes to what we believe the plan is, then our midfield should look pretty well balanced.

Future primary ballwinners:
Dunstan
Steven
Armitage
Acres
Billings

Possible additions to that list:
McKenzie
Sinclair
Weller

With hopefully the addition of:
A name like Treloar
Top quality mid with a top 3 pick.


I think the core of that midfield can be pretty strong if all development goes well. We need a bit more pace/outside line breaking but I'm confident we can find that over the next few drafts. The "engine room" so to speak could be very strong for us.

 

[karaoke]

I think if all goes to what we believe the plan is, then our midfield should look pretty well balanced.

Future primary ballwinners:
Dunstan
Steven
Armitage
Acres
Billings

Possible additions to that list:
McKenzie
Sinclair
Weller

With hopefully the addition of:
A name like Treloar
Top quality mid with a top 3 pick.


I think the core of that midfield can be pretty strong if all development goes well. We need a bit more pace/outside line breaking but I'm confident we can find that over the next few drafts. The "engine room" so to speak could be very strong for us.

No Ross?

 

[Saint Luke]

No Ross?

You're absolutely right. I also forgot Newnes.

If Acres and Billings come along like we expect them to, and Newnes and Ross don't stall then we are in a pretty good position I would think.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I think if all goes to what we believe the plan is, then our midfield should look pretty well balanced.

Future primary ballwinners:
Dunstan
Steven
Armitage
Acres
Billings

Possible additions to that list:
McKenzie
Sinclair
Weller

With hopefully the addition of:
A name like Treloar
Top quality mid with a top 3 pick.


I think the core of that midfield can be pretty strong if all development goes well. We need a bit more pace/outside line breaking but I'm confident we can find that over the next few drafts. The "engine room" so to speak could be very strong for us.

As you say later, I think we can add Ross to that list, and maybe Newnes to chime in with about 3-4 clearances a game. That would allow Billings to be released as an outside mid (chiming in with maybe 1-2 clearances a game).

Part of the issue, too, then, is WHEN. How long until we can assess the viability of these players to perform these roles? Obviously, it's unrealistic to expect Hawthorn/Freo/Port level productivity from our midfielders now, given most of them are barely at 30 games, let alone even 50. So when?

After all, if we looked at previous rebuilding teams, like Carlton or Richmond, and saw their "engine room", might we not have expected their players to grow into a premiership contending type midfield? Are we counting chickens before they've hatched?

 

[hayes]

TBH I think it's close to 10-12 required to run through the midfield these days.

Looking at what we've got:

Ball winners:

Armitage
Steven
Dunstan
Ross
Acres
Billings
Sinclair

Wingers/outside players:

Newnes
McKenzie
Eli

HF's who do stints in the middle:

Lonie
Murdoch

Tagger:

Weller
Curren

Numbers/depth looks ok so far but this is the part that gets a bit iffy. I think you need 3-4 absolute gun, AA level midfielders to win a flag to go along with good depth. How many of those do we have? Steven? Billings? Acres? They look the most likely but it's very early and any one of the depth options could surprise and become stars or of course go the other way. Who knows what someone like Sinclair could become.

An underrated need is an elite HF/mid like a Wingard/Bruest/eventually Smith.

Either way I think we're in good shape. IMO we've got 2-3 top 10 picks coming which will be used on midfielders and hopefully we get one via free agency as well.

 

[mysainters]

Agree with Hayes, closer to 12

 

[Kildonan]

Don't forget the Minch

 

[Big Mart]

Too many insides

Can only have 3 in at a time... Couple resting, couple of outsides resting

As a rule you generally have a few more outsides than ins... If you want hurt sides..

 

[Persevering Saint]

Don't forget the Minch

Why not? Richo seems to quite regularly.

 

[gringo2011]

A saints fan told me Carlton kicked 11 goals from turn overs last week. If we could keep hold of the ball it would help too. If that stat is true it's a very ugly stat and almost more important than clearances. We used to lose clearances and win games. We have made ourselves very efficient once we get the ball forward at least.

 

[God Save Max King]

Correct, gringo. Clearances matter very little if you kick it straight to an opponent and give them clear possession. It's more important that you can hold on to the ball and use it well, in the last 2 weeks we've contended about 165
165 points from turnovers, which is completely unacceptable. Our engine room isn't as important as our outside midfield stocks.