Mega Thread The Flat Earth Mega thread.

[darthbards]

I'm just asking questions. Why the animosity about giving answers?

I visited your website. It didn't give much in the way of simple answers.

There's a great parable to explain human understanding:

Consider there is an oracle. You can ask the oracle whatever you want and it will tell the correct answer. The more questions you ask, the more the Oracle can teach you.

Science is about asking the right questions, and the Oracle is the universe.

It will give up all of its secrets as long as you keep asking it questions.

When you stop asking questions, you stop learning.

Great comment.
I've said all along this should be in the science thread not a conspiracy.
What is going on at LIGO? Would people be allowed to ask this simple science question on the science board?
If there is a universe,with planets etc.,surely LIGO could prove these simple facts considering the money they are given?
Where is this gravity thing outside our brainwashed minds?

 

[NEGAN]

It's actually a very good representation.

In the comparison, the bus you are riding on is moving at a constant speed, just as the Earth is moving at a relatively constant speed compared to the helicopter.

You jumping in the bus relative to the constant movement of the bus is the same as a helicopter hovering relative to the spinning of the Earth.

I just thought it would make it easier for you to visualise it.

How does a bus moving at a constant speed in a linear motion represent the movement of heliocentric earth?

For starters, the bus is an enclosed system with a flat ground surface surrounded by an atmosphere the earth is not an enclosed system it doesn't have a flat surface and isn't protected from anything entering or leaving it and is surrounded by the vacuum of space. But I am willing to ignore these points for the purpose of motion/movement.



The bus you describe travels in one direction at a constant speed to get the desired outcome.

The Earth has 3 different motions applied to it 2 of which are non linear. The Earth doesn't travel at a constant speed when orbiting around the sun since it's not orbiting in a perfect circle...meaning an acceleration must applied to keep up its velocity around the sun.

Now I understand the bus and everything inside the bus is relative to these motions of the earth due to the free fall caused by gravity. It's not really my issue but just pointing out we have to accept that everything inside the bus represents everything happening to the earth that I described in the previous paragraph.

But my issue is this. The motion of the axial movement of the earth ( the centrifugal/centripetal forces applied by this movement NOT the theoretical gravitational forces)which cannot be represented by a bus in a constant motion on a linear path.

The second issue I have is the 12hr disparity of movement depending on what side of the earth you are you are either getting pulled by gravity or getting pushed by the Earth. Eg going up or down in a lift moving at a constant speed. This also can't be represented by a bus moving at a constant speed.


Lastly does your bus scenario still work on a geocentric Earth yes or no?

 

[NEGAN]

No please post link/video to digest

I tried posting I can't get the link to the documents to work.

If you type in "Nasa says assumes flat stationary earth" you should find it....you will find the the Nasa chronies trying to debunk it which is funny.

 

[exe ex machina]

I tried posting I can't get the link to the documents to work.

If you type in "Nasa says assumes flat stationary earth" you should find it....you will find the the Nasa chronies trying to debunk it which is funny.

Cheers, big ears.

 

[darthbards]

Which way does the earth need to spin so we aren't upside down in Australia?

 

[exe ex machina]

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88104main_H-1391.pdf

 

[exe ex machina]

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88104main_H-1391.pdf

View attachment 532846

https://www.metabunk.org/explained-nasa-documents-stating-a-flat-earth-linear-aircraft-models.t8992/

 

[exe ex machina]

https://www.metabunk.org/explained-nasa-documents-stating-a-flat-earth-linear-aircraft-models.t8992/

https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...odel-flying-over-a-flat-and-nonrotating-earth

 

[exe ex machina]

There are at least FIFTEEN NASA documents that state a flat earth....(a lot of the links are broken due to bad formatting of html address). Solvable with HEX conversion....

=============

01-page 12: "aircraft flying in a stationary atmosphere over flat nonrotating earth"
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88072main_H-1259.pdf

02-page 108: "aircraft flying over flat, nonrotating earth"
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19890005752.pdf

03-page 126: "The nonlinear equations of motion used are six-degree-of-freedom equations sith stationary atmosphere and flat, nonrotating earth assumptions."
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19890007066.pdf

04-page 2: "The method is limited, however, to application where a flat, nonrotating earth may be assumed. "
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720012071.pdf

05-page 11: "The nonlinear equations of motion used in this model are general six-degree-of-freedom equations representing the flight dynamics of a rigid aircraft flying in a stationary atmosphere over a flat nonrotating earth"
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88248main_H-1777.pdf

06-page 32: "Lastly, the equations of motion for the zeroth-order problem of flight in a vacuum over a flat Earth are presented."
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940020279.pdf

07-page 2: "In this paper, the rigid body equations of motion over a flat non-rotating earth "
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070030307.pdf

08-page 14: "The earth is flat and non-rotating."
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19790005472.pdf

09-page 25: "The helicopter equations of motion are given in body axes with rerpect to a flat, nonrotating Earth."
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19810003557.pdf

10-page 13: "A model frequently used is that of a flat, nonrotating earth."
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19650015408.pdf

11-page 19: "These equations assume a rigid vehicle and a flat, nonrotating Earth."
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88733main_H-2465.pdf

12-page 9: "For aircraft problems, the state and measurement models together represent the kinematics of a rigid body for describing motion over a flat, nonrotating Earth"
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19880014378.pdf

13-page 14: "A flat, nonrotating earth"
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19710018599.pdf

14-page 2: "In our minimum time-to-climb problem, the aircraft is modeled as a point mass and the flight trajectory is strictly confined in a vertical plane on a non-rotating, flat earth."
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20060053337.pdf

15-page 8: "the missile position in space is computed relative to a flat nonrotating earth."
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/…/…/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20040008097.pdf

 

[exe ex machina]

if you go here https://ntrs.nasa.gov/advSearch.jsp and then copy-paste the quoted text, it brings back plenty of pdf documents where those keywords "nonrotating flat earth" are inside the document.

 

[darthbards]

if you go here https://ntrs.nasa.gov/advSearch.jsp and then copy-paste the quoted text, it brings back plenty of pdf documents where those keywords "nonrotating flat earth" are inside the document.

Really good research there GG.
As an Australian I'm disappointed we aren't at the forefront of this ball myth.
Yes the whole world doesn't understand how we can just spin,spin,spin and not know,but how do us Aussies explain that we are upside down?
We are not upside down,anyone can prove that.

 

[Tuco]

Seriously, about %99 of the world believes in Gravity. But it's utterly blind belief, acceptance, without genuine questioning/research.

Simply answer this...

How can gravity be so strong as to hold trillions of tons of ocean to the Earth, but yet be so weak to allow birds, bugs, smoke, balloons, etc to evade it completely? How can gravity hold down a body to the ground, but yet we can easily raise our legs and arms and feel no such constant downward pulling force?

Birds, planes, balls, oceans, toddlers lifting their arms...none of these evade gravity. Not one of them.

You can use muscle power to TEMPORARILY break gravity, but the power required to actually beat gravity PERMANENTLY is immense.

Try this experiment: jump off the planet.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

So how'd that go?

Exactly.

As to why you don't 'feel' gravity, that's just conditioning. You've always lived under a specific amount of g-forces. It's so 'normal' to us on a scale we call it 1 g.

But have you ever been in a gravitron? How'd you go lifting your arms under those additional G forces? Hard wasn't it? Did you feel that force? Of course you did. Because you don't normally live in a gravitron under that much of a gravitational pull.

Gravity is a relationship to mass. The Earth is bloody massive. That's why you need to achieve Mach 33 to get from the Earth's crust to an escape velocity.

The ocean is big, but it doesn't fly about at Mach 33.

Hope that helps.

 

[darthbards]

Birds, planes, balls, oceans, toddlers lifting their arms...none of these evade gravity. Not one of them.

You can use muscle power to TEMPORARILY break gravity, but the power required to actually beat gravity PERMANENTLY is immense.

Try this experiment: jump off the planet.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

So how'd that go?

Exactly.

As to why you don't 'feel' gravity, that's just conditioning. You've always lived under a specific amount of g-forces. It's so 'normal' to us on a scale we call it 1 g.

But have you ever been in a gravitron? How'd you go lifting your arms under those additional G forces? Hard wasn't it? Did you feel that force? Of course you did. Because you don't normally live in a gravitron under that much of a gravitational pull.

Gravity is a relationship to mass. The Earth is bloody massive. That's why you need to achieve Mach 33 to get from the Earth's crust to an escape velocity.

The ocean is big, but it doesn't fly about at Mach 33.

Hope that helps.

We have done the gravity experiment dude but no one is yet to prove gravity.
At the FES we believe we could make so much more of the LIGO facilities.
You just love gravity because that is what you are told,billions of dollars but nothing.

 

[Tuco]

How does a bus moving at a constant speed in a linear motion represent the movement of heliocentric earth?

For starters, the bus is an enclosed system with a flat ground surface surrounded by an atmosphere the earth is not an enclosed system it doesn't have a flat surface and isn't protected from anything entering or leaving it and is surrounded by the vacuum of space. But I am willing to ignore these points for the purpose of motion/movement.



The bus you describe travels in one direction at a constant speed to get the desired outcome.

The Earth has 3 different motions applied to it 2 of which are non linear. The Earth doesn't travel at a constant speed when orbiting around the sun since it's not orbiting in a perfect circle...meaning an acceleration must applied to keep up its velocity around the sun.

Now I understand the bus and everything inside the bus is relative to these motions of the earth due to the free fall caused by gravity. It's not really my issue but just pointing out we have to accept that everything inside the bus represents everything happening to the earth that I described in the previous paragraph.

But my issue is this. The motion of the axial movement of the earth ( the centrifugal/centripetal forces applied by this movement NOT the theoretical gravitational forces)which cannot be represented by a bus in a constant motion on a linear path.

The second issue I have is the 12hr disparity of movement depending on what side of the earth you are you are either getting pulled by gravity or getting pushed by the Earth. Eg going up or down in a lift moving at a constant speed. This also can't be represented by a bus moving at a constant speed.


Lastly does your bus scenario still work on a geocentric Earth yes or no?

We are talking about the Earth and how things work on it remember. I wasn't proposing a new Space Bus Theory of existence.

It was a simplistic illustration aiming to give you a real world scenario of how silly it is to try and wait for the bus to drive you to your seat, as this is just as silly as trying to hover over the Earth as a mode of travel.

Way to completely miss the entire point. Oh well.

Also BTW the Earth actually IS an enclosed system just like the bus. It has layers of atmosphere like an onion. These layers are held in place by gravity and are so good at protecting the Earth the vast majority of meteors that hit the Earth are burnt up before they get anywhere near the ground.

That pushing and pulling thing you describe is not how it works either. We are not held to the Earth because it spins. All that guff about centrifugal/centripetal forces are irrelevant. Gravity is due to mass, not movement.

Ie: if the Earth wasn't spinning you wouldn't float off into space.

 

[Tuco]

We have done the gravity experiment dude but no one is yet to prove gravity.
At the FES we believe we could make so much more of the LIGO facilities.
You just love gravity because that is what you are told,billions of dollars but nothing.

You have done a gravity experiment?

This is an exciting development. Do tell.

 

[NEGAN]

Birds, planes, balls, oceans, toddlers lifting their arms...none of these evade gravity. Not one of them.

You can use muscle power to TEMPORARILY break gravity, but the power required to actually beat gravity PERMANENTLY is immense.

Try this experiment: jump off the planet.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

So how'd that go?

Exactly.

As to why you don't 'feel' gravity, that's just conditioning. You've always lived under a specific amount of g-forces. It's so 'normal' to us on a scale we call it 1 g.

But have you ever been in a gravitron? How'd you go lifting your arms under those additional G forces? Hard wasn't it? Did you feel that force? Of course you did. Because you don't normally live in a gravitron under that much of a gravitational pull.

Gravity is a relationship to mass. The Earth is bloody massive. That's why you need to achieve Mach 33 to get from the Earth's crust to an escape velocity.

The ocean is big, but it doesn't fly about at Mach 33.

Hope that helps.

Jump of the planet what's your point here?

A gravitron has nothing to do with gravity..
It's centripedal force.

 

[Tuco]

Jump of the planet what's your point here?

A gravitron has nothing to do with gravity..
It's centripedal force.

Yes but the the centripedal force mimics the effects of gravity by increasing the g-forces. It's why they call it a gravitron, not a spinitron.

My point - which you have elegantly missed - was that gravity is a lot stronger than was being made out. You can move. But you cannot move off the planet without an amazing amount of force.

 

[darthbards]

You have done a gravity experiment?

This is an exciting development. Do tell.

Please tell what the billions of dollars we have spent at LIGO has proved?

 

[NEGAN]

We are talking about the Earth and how things work on it remember. I wasn't proposing a new Space Bus Theory of existence.

It was a simplistic illustration aiming to give you a real world scenario of how silly it is to try and wait for the bus to drive you to your seat, as this is just as silly as trying to hover over the Earth as a mode of travel.

Way to completely miss the entire point. Oh well.

Also BTW the Earth actually IS an enclosed system just like the bus. It has layers of atmosphere like an onion. These layers are held in place by gravity and are so good at protecting the Earth the vast majority of meteors that hit the Earth are burnt up before they get anywhere near the ground.

That pushing and pulling thing you describe is not how it works either. We are not held to the Earth because it spins. All that guff about centrifugal/centripetal forces are irrelevant. Gravity is due to mass, not movement.

Ie: if the Earth wasn't spinning you wouldn't float off into space.

Can your bus scenario be used on a geocentric Earth? Yes or NO

Also the earth is.only enclosed system in comparison to the universe not its surroundings. Maybe an isolated system

 

[NEGAN]

Yes but the the centripedal force mimics the effects of gravity by increasing the g-forces. It's why they call it a gravitron, not a spinitron.

My point - which you have elegantly missed - was that gravity is a lot stronger than was being made out. You can move. But you cannot move off the planet without an amazing amount of force.

Yeah and my point is you have no idea how strong or weak gravity is as it relies on mass and you using a centripetal force to illustrate is.moot.

 

[Tuco]

Yeah and my point is you have no idea how strong or weak gravity is and you using a centripetal force to illustrate is.moot.

I know exactly how gravity feels at 1 g, which is what I was talking about.

BTW if you are interested in how strong it is, gravity on Earth pulls with a force of 9.8 m/s²

I also wasn't using centripedal force to illustrate how strong gravity was either. I was stating that you don't notice g forces until they significantly increase. I used the example of a gravitron as that is something most people would have experienced as an example of feeling larger amounts of G than normal.

Although I could just have easily used the example of a speeding car turning around a corner very quickly and pinning you to the window momentarily.

 

[NEGAN]

I know exactly how gravity feels at 1 g, which is what I was talking about.

BTW if you are interested in how strong it is, gravity on Earth pulls with a force of 9.8 m/s²

I also wasn't using centripedal force to illustrate how strong gravity was either. I was stating that you don't notice g forces until they significantly increase. I used the example of a gravitron as that is something most people would have experienced as an example of feeling larger amounts of G than normal.

Although I could just have easily used the example of a speeding car turning around a corner very quickly and pinning you to the window momentarily.

Yes but the numbers you are using to "measure" gravitation force are based on horseshit. Big G is constantly varying to the point they still don't the value of big G though it supposed to be a constant. Its a big problem.
I guess this what you get when let caverndish hang two balls from his roof to dictate the model.


As far little g is concerned its the rate at which something falls big whoop.

 

[Tuco]

Please tell what the billions of dollars we have spent at LIGO has proved?

It has proved that you can detect black holes by observing the gravitational waves they produce by doing so on multiple occasions.

It has furthered our knowledge or both classical and quantum measurements. And the implications will be far reaching in the fields of Space science, technology, optics, lasers and theoretical physics.

It will also go a long way to refining the special theory of relativity by either confirming the theory is valid, or suggesting ways in which the theory needs to be reworked to better explain the workings of the universe.

You're welcome.

Your turn,

What is the gravity experiment FES have done?

Or is it a special secret you're not allowed to talk about in case the Argentinian Navy swoops in and takes you away to the mass concentration camps at the base of the Ice Wall where spherical Earth deniers are interned?

 

[Tuco]

Yes but the numbers you are using to "measure" gravitation force are based on horseshit. Big G is constantly varying to the point they still don't the value of big G though it supposed to be a constant. Its a big problem.
I guess this what you get when let caverndish hang two balls from his roof to dictate the model.


As far little g is concerned its the rate at which something falls big whoop.

Yes but why do things fall at that g rate?

I'll give you a clue: it's related to mass, and radius and big G.

FE offers no answer either way.

As for big G, the figures are hardly horseshit.

There have been some discrepancies in measurements over the last 200 years. We're talking 400 ppm of G difference here. But the general consensus is that the G constant isn't changing, it's just our measurements that haven't been precise enough.

It's quite possible that G may be slightly different depending upon how the measurements are made, or even where on the planet the measurements are taken.

We know it's a constant though, because the orbits of the planets in the Solar system haven't changed.

That's the beauty of Science. You just keep building on top of what you know by constantly re-testing, re-measuring, and by refining knowledge.

 

[NEGAN]

Yes but why do things fall at that g rate?

I'll give you a clue: it's related to mass, and radius and big G.

FE offers no answer either way.

As for big G, the figures are hardly horseshit.

There have been some discrepancies in measurements over the last 200 years. We're talking 400 ppm of G difference here. But the general consensus is that the G constant isn't changing, it's just our measurements that haven't been precise enough.

It's quite possible that G may be slightly different depending upon how the measurements are made, or even where on the planet the measurements are taken.

We know it's a constant though, because the orbits of the planets in the Solar system haven't changed.

That's the beauty of Science. You just keep building on top of what you know by constantly re-testing, re-measuring, and by refining knowledge.

Who knows why things fall at that rate? you can that gravity all you want but.....yeah its not really, well not the whole picture of the heliocentric model.

Big G is a problem its a massive problem you can spin it however you want but you know it is. Luckily we have science to.invent things such as dark energy and matter to whisk away all of gravities problems of the galaxy rotation problem.
It's based on assumption and not reality. One example.. you have to believe that a teaspoon of a neutron star weighs 900 times more than a pyramid in Giza...please....give me a break.




As far as FE answers I really don't know what you want from it, I don't know what you expect from it. I know you believe its a bunch of trolls but I have been following this for year now and yes I would agree there are a bunch of stupids in the fe movement. But I also know that there are very smart people in the movement as well. Just like any group.





It's a hypothesis stemming from a 2 simple questions.

Where is the 8 inches squared per mile curvature?
Where is the measurement/detection for the earth moving?

That's it.

Now 3 years no budget they have come a long way ....to the point it is isn't go away the numbers are growing.

Youre asking questions of the flat earth that they cannot possibly answer given the access to recourses budget time etc.

Science is beautiful when used correctly.. But science can be ugly too, it can be let's say political...money and power driven devastating.