The forward line.

[jonbe54]

Surely our most dysfunctional aspect and symptomatic of an over obsession with contested ball winning - IMHO.

Winning contested ball is crucial - but so is conversion and we haven't been converting our opportunities in the forward line for a long time now. I hear some of you saying it's personnel - BS!!

It's a totally unprofessional approach to team structure and training. Eddie mate it's time to stop whingeing about the tax and employ PROPER forward line kicking coaches and ruck coaches FULL TIME. As for the midfield coaching . . . ermmm great contested ball winning . . . rubbish composure kicking into the forward line. Fix this and 70% of our problems disappear, so why are we still bombing it in blindly???

Our GF victory in '10 was great right???

Weeeeellll . . it was a great result but really for most of the season our conversion was horrendous. If St.Kilda had of been able to Kick 5.4 in the first half instead of all those points are any of you under the illusion that we would not have had a hard fight instead of the cakewalk we ended up having??

Conversion . . NOTHING is more important and we seem to be minimizing the training, planning and resources needed to maximizing it.

 

[mike123]

I'd imagine better personnel would improve conversion buts it's not just conversion of shots on goal that is the problem. It's also conversion of entires.

 

[jonbe54]

In the 70's Collingwood had formidable teams but failed to convert the big ones.

Personnel help but if the team isn't cohesive and well drilled no amount of top line personnel will get you over the line.

We need a goal kicking coach and a ruck coach - full time professionals. It's time to stop farting around and pay out the necessary to ensure these two crucial roles are treated with the urgency required.

Lastly team balance - for a while now we have been collecting contested ball players - all very good, contested ball is important. But not at the expense of putting a winning score on the board.

Pressure on the ball carrier and the pack are crucial but NOTHING is as important as SCOREBOARD pressure.

Coach Grundy to get the ball down to our advantage.
Coach for link players to move the ball forward instead of getting sucked in.
Coach forwards in intelligent leading patterns.
Coach link players and mids to kick to leading forwards ADVANTAGE.

It's not so much a coaching failure as an obsession with winning the ball at all costs.

Far better to win the ball 6 out of 10 times resulting in composure enough to kick 4 goals 2 behinds , that to win it 8 out of 10 times and not have the composure to kick more than 2 goals 6 behinds.

Balance, composure and focus. Easy to say but difficult to execute when you have everyone scrambling around at the bottom of the pack slamming the ball out any old way.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Finals 2018

Continuity and confidence

I see mcclarty taking reids spot

I see Kirby comming in ,I see Sidey forward could look like this

Adams Dunn Howe

Crisp Moore Murray

Stephenson. De goey. Maynard

Sidey. Mcclarty. Varcoe

Kirby. Cox. WHE

That's a heck of a team with lots and lots of dangerous players , speed , strength and supreme aerial ability also a few blokes who love a tackle

 

[BringouttheGimp]

If we're serious about it.. Reid I'd offer as a trade. Cox I'm actually hopeful he'd be useful. But no go for me.. we need a decent out and out key forward like Lynch.. then work around him with a mobile tall like a Gunston type.. and have Elliot Faz Whe Stepho go nuts around em re.

 

[parvey]

In the 70's Collingwood had formidable teams but failed to convert the big ones.

Personnel help but if the team isn't cohesive and well drilled no amount of top line personnel will get you over the line.

We need a goal kicking coach and a ruck coach - full time professionals. It's time to stop farting around and pay out the necessary to ensure these two crucial roles are treated with the urgency required.

Lastly team balance - for a while now we have been collecting contested ball players - all very good, contested ball is important. But not at the expense of putting a winning score on the board.

Pressure on the ball carrier and the pack are crucial but NOTHING is as important as SCOREBOARD pressure.

Coach Grundy to get the ball down to our advantage.
Coach for link players to move the ball forward instead of getting sucked in.
Coach forwards in intelligent leading patterns.
Coach link players and mids to kick to leading forwards ADVANTAGE.

It's not so much a coaching failure as an obsession with winning the ball at all costs.

Far better to win the ball 6 out of 10 times resulting in composure enough to kick 4 goals 2 behinds , that to win it 8 out of 10 times and not have the composure to kick more than 2 goals 6 behinds.

Balance, composure and focus. Easy to say but difficult to execute when you have everyone scrambling around at the bottom of the pack slamming the ball out any old way.

The only thing I would add to that is converting at the critical times in a game, all teams miss shots but after watching last nights game both teams were able to take their chances at the vital time, we seem to miss those shots and Cloke was the worst offender

 

[BEEG]

Don't you need forwards to have a forward line?

 

[jonbe54]

The only thing I would add to that is converting at the critical times in a game, all teams miss shots but after watching last nights game both teams were able to take their chances at the vital time, we seem to miss those shots and Cloke was the worst offender

No argument, I would contend that being properly coached is vital in this area.
Being properly coached means you convert more opportunities, converting more opportunities means you are more confident, being confident both stops you from tightening up and allows you to kick through the ball properly. All a great help in clutch situations.
PLEASE Eddie forget the friggin tax and pay for a full time professional kicking coach.

 

[jonbe54]

Don't you need forwards to have a forward line?

JEZZUZ some things never change do they?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Don't you need forwards to have a forward line?

Good observation. Crocker and Smith out. Please.. no more kreas.

 

[BEEG]

JEZZUZ some things never change do they?

Moore - most natural forward is being played down back
Blair - Hahahahah
Fasolo - good but won't be around long as he doesn't work hard enough
Cox - great mark but I think his best position is sole ruckman
Reid - AA chb
Goldsack - bloke has a crack
Elliot - top 5 small forward in the comp just can't get on the park
Kirby - no idea really if he makes it wasn't selected round 1 probably says a lot

Tell me where I'm wrong we haven't drafted a forward since Dawes, the only reason we got Moore as he fell in our laps by FS rule.

 

[jonbe54]

As per your first post in this thread . . . .

One of the prime defining factors of a troll post is that it adds nothing to the discussion.

Your second post is much different.

You still miss the point.

Having no full time kicking coach and no cohesion between the forward line and the rest of the team are the prime operating factors in our dysfunctional scoring setup.

Proper coaching and tactics can lift that 25% NO MATTER THE PERSONNEL.

A 25% lift in scoring potential makes us finalists.

PERIOD.

 

[Gone Critical]

Trouble with this theory is we do have a forwards coach, we do have a full time coach, we do have development coaches etc. Now are they doing a good enough job, none of us know. Would a full time kicking coach help? Maybe. Would it suddenly improve us 25% highly unlikely

Is this our basic problem? No. Basic issue we have a poor quality forwardline and the only two reasonably good goalkickers we have, Elliott and Fasolo, are not ready. Thats our big issue and no kicking coach is going to overcome that. My hopes is that Cox and Reid prove to be goalkickers this year and Elliott and Fas get back on track. If Cox shows the improvement its reasonable to expect we are suddenly a different proposition. Lot rests on that. I do have a hope that he can become even more than good. He has tools no one else has.

 

[jonbe54]

Trouble with this theory is we do have a forwards coach, we do have a full time coach, we do have development coaches etc. Now are they doing a good enough job, none of us know. Would a full time kicking coach help? Maybe. Would it suddenly improve us 25% highly unlikely

Is this our basic problem? No. Basic issue we have a poor quality forwardline and the only two reasonably good goalkickers we have, Elliott and Fasolo, are not ready. Thats our big issue and no kicking coach is going to overcome that. My hopes is that Cox and Reid prove to be goalkickers this year and Elliott and Fas get back on track. If Cox shows the improvement its reasonable to expect we are suddenly a different proposition. Lot rests on that. I do have a hope that he can become even more than good. He has tools no one else has.

Agree to disagree GC, given higher scoring impact that lessens pressure on the whole team which in turn leads to more composure for i50's, which leads to more scoring which leads to less pressure . . etc., etc.

Snowball effect.

Never mind to each his own so long as it's side by side.

 

[BEEG]

As per your first post in this thread . . . .

One of the prime defining factors of a troll post is that it adds nothing to the discussion.

Your second post is much different.

You still miss the point.

Having no full time kicking coach and no cohesion between the forward line and the rest of the team are the prime operating factors in our dysfunctional scoring setup.

Proper coaching and tactics can lift that 25% NO MATTER THE PERSONNEL.

A 25% lift in scoring potential makes us finalists.

PERIOD.

Put actual forwards in the forward line and you'll actually see the above happen.

 

[jonbe54]

Put actual forwards in the forward line and you'll actually see the above happen.

Actual forwards are another thing altogether - and AGAIN their scoring opportunities and production will be helped by the measures I'm talking about.

 

[BEEG]

Actual forwards are another thing altogether - and AGAIN their scoring opportunities and production will be helped by the measures I'm talking about.

You have absolutely no idea what happens at training and what resources the club puts into goal kicking etc

Unless you have a role at the club back in your box.

 

[Gone Critical]

Agree to disagree GC, given higher scoring impact that lessens pressure on the whole team which in turn leads to more composure for i50's, which leads to more scoring which leads to less pressure . . etc., etc.

Snowball effect.

Never mind to each his own so long as it's side by side.

Don't disagree with your theory and I am sure the coaching team is also on that page trying to implement those things.

It's just for me the lack of forward talent is our biggest bugbear. We dont have anyone playing tomorrow who has kicked more than 25 goals in a season wearing a Collingwood jumper. Fas and Elliott are the only two who look 40 goal a year capable and that is a minimum requirement for a finals team. Look at the Tigers last night, Reiwoldt gun forward, Bulter great skills and 30 goals in his 1st season last year, Townsend steps up and is a natural forward Martin gun mid who kicks goals etc etc. We dont have any of that. Even the Blues, Curnow looks impossibly good, Wright kicks 30 last season and 5 last night. We lack talent as our no 1 problem unless a Cox or someone comes on

 

[jonbe54]

You have absolutely no idea what happens at training and what resources the club puts into goal kicking etc

Unless you have a role at the club back in your box.

Errrmm unless you happen to be a ghost moderator don't tell me what to do sunshine.

 

[BEEG]

Don't disagree with your theory and I am sure the coaching team is also on that page trying to implement those things.

It's just for me the lack of forward talent is our biggest bugbear. We dont have anyone playing tomorrow who has kicked more than 25 goals in a season wearing a Collingwood jumper. Fas and Elliott are the only two who look 40 goal a year capable and that is a minimum requirement for a finals team. Look at the Tigers last night, Reiwoldt gun forward, Bulter great skills and 30 goals in his 1st season last year, Townsend steps up and is a natural forward Martin gun mid who kicks goals etc etc. We dont have any of that. Even the Blues, Curnow looks impossibly good, Wright kicks 30 last season and 5 last night. We lack talent as our no 1 problem unless a Cox or someone comes on

Exactly put forwards in the forward line and watch everything improve

Biggest problem at our club is not having any forward talent, fix this and watch us rise up the ladder, look at our inside 50 counts over the last 2 years not like we can't get it in the 50.

 

[jonbe54]

Don't disagree with your theory and I am sure the coaching team is also on that page trying to implement those things.

It's just for me the lack of forward talent is our biggest bugbear. We dont have anyone playing tomorrow who has kicked more than 25 goals in a season wearing a Collingwood jumper. Fas and Elliott are the only two who look 40 goal a year capable and that is a minimum requirement for a finals team. Look at the Tigers last night, Reiwoldt gun forward, Bulter great skills and 30 goals in his 1st season last year, Townsend steps up and is a natural forward Martin gun mid who kicks goals etc etc. We dont have any of that. Even the Blues, Curnow looks impossibly good, Wright kicks 30 last season and 5 last night. We lack talent as our no 1 problem unless a Cox or someone comes on

I see improvement along the lines I've been advocating as a baseline that every team should be achieving and we aren't.
Better forwards are an entirely different factor.

 

[BEEG]

Errrmm unless you happen to be a ghost moderator don't tell me what to do sunshine.

You had the crack first sweetheart, if you really think we have a forward line and our kicking at goal is costing us a flag you really are a fool.

 

[BEEG]

I see improvement along the lines I've been advocating as a baseline that every team should be achieving and we aren't.
Better forwards are an entirely different factor.

OMG

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Mayne is the answer!

 

[left at home]

Mayne is the answer!

Brilliant