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The GOAT Paradox

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CanonNo1

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Sep 12, 2007
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The paradox i have is this :

Whenever a player dominates an 'era' there is a school of thought that their opponents are not good enough and are of inferior quality than the previous generations. Yet, could it be that the player dominating is just so good that he makes them look not good enough and doesn't give them opportunties?

Conversely, we say era's were harder because there were more players who won a grand slam or were contending. But is that because they were actually good players or there was no freakishly good talent who was able to dominate them?

This is highlighted by the Sampras vs Federer debate. You find people who say ... well Sampras played Edberg, Courier, Becker, Agassi etc ... therefore had tougher opposition because they won heaps of slams. But could it be that Sampras wasn't good enough to utterly dominate them and therefore they tasted more success? Maybe he had more weaknesses to exploit and take advantage off and thus was beaten more often than not?

The flip, we say Federer's generation is weaker as he had only Roddick, Safin, Nadal, Murray, Nole, Davy, Nalbadian, Hewitt etc to deal with none (bar Nadal) who have won more than 2 Grand Slams. However, is it because they weren't good enough or Federer makes them look second rate because he so consisently good and seemingly has no 'real' weakness (bar troubles against Rafa).

Would Nadal/Murray/Nole won majors in the Sampras era? Would Federer have won 16? Would Agassi have won any had he played in Federer's era?

Haven't put a lot of thought into it ... but always an arguement either way... just an interesting conundrum in my head.
 
what is the difference between the types of players is probably a more interesting question. Much more variety in sampras's era than there is today, everyone plays the same. you could say that Federer is the best at this type of tennis, robotic backcourt stuff but he hasnt had to deal with anyone with a different game who is good. That is the key they have to be good. Yes there are serve volleyers around atm but they are not in the same planet as the greats of the 80s. Sampras imo is still the greatest because he was at or near the top in 2 different eras.
 
Laver says Fed, Sampras says Fed, Mc Enroe says Fed, Courier says Fed, ; just watch him at his best, nobody compares. Amazing serve, best FH ever, classical BH, all court game, great volleyer and net player, great at the back, role model, 16 slams,he's not near retirement. Sampras got his last slam at age 31.
What more is there to say? I've watched and played tennis since mid 60's and we are really privileged to be witnessing this freakish talent. GOAT for sure.
 

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what is the difference between the types of players is probably a more interesting question. Much more variety in sampras's era than there is today, everyone plays the same. you could say that Federer is the best at this type of tennis, robotic backcourt stuff but he hasnt had to deal with anyone with a different game who is good. That is the key they have to be good. Yes there are serve volleyers around atm but they are not in the same planet as the greats of the 80s. Sampras imo is still the greatest because he was at or near the top in 2 different eras.


One point you missed out on is the surface.Back then indoor courts were lightning fast and so were the grass courts.Ball bounced low and it was difficult to hit a passing shot.If mcenroe was playing federer on the present grass surface he will get slaughtered, however if it was on the old surface i am not so sure about that.

The best serve and volleyer at the moment is John Isner or Mario Ancic, which shows the sad state of mens tennis.Sure there are a lot of good baseliners, however the fun of watching contrasting styles (rafer vs agassi??? who can forget the battles they had) is just not there anymore
 
Laver says Fed, Sampras says Fed, Mc Enroe says Fed, Courier says Fed, ; just watch him at his best, nobody compares. Amazing serve, best FH ever, classical BH, all court game, great volleyer and net player, great at the back, role model, 16 slams,he's not near retirement. Sampras got his last slam at age 31.
What more is there to say? I've watched and played tennis since mid 60's and we are really privileged to be witnessing this freakish talent. GOAT for sure.

I'm still going with Laver.

Just.
 
It is as Canon says a conundrum and there is never going to be a definitive answer however it is a fascinating debate held in all sports. TP is correct in lamenting the passing of lightning fast grass in that this has served to help the trend toward sameyness. Personally I want faster old style grass and two grass court masters events leading up to Wimbledon. A real grass court season where the swashbuckler type can thrive.

I'm old enough to have seen McEnroe in the flesh. Would he have caused Fed problems on fast grass? You better believe it. McEnroe was a superb master of touch and feel. Would Fed have troubled him? Yes he would. Borg and Nadal on clay? Who can tell. Titanic battle and to be honest Vilas would have troubled both.

There are so many great players. Clearly if we have to go for one it is Federer. The stats say him: Slams won, slams finalled, inflation adjusted earnings all point to him. Laver, Sampras, Connors etc all say him. Stats and the opinions of the Gods of the game are probably enough to allow us say definitively that he is the GOAT but he wouldn't have had 5 in a row at London and NY in McEnroes day.
 

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The GOAT Paradox

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