The Great Debate!

[TimeFor11]

So there is a chance both Graham and Tuck won't be here next season so we must ask is there a point of playing them if one or both wont be here next year?

FWIW I personally am sick to death of all the chanting for Tuck to play when we all know he isn't going to be coming out of our race in 2012 so whats the point.

Graham on the other hand I believe will retain his spot on the list and playing him again this season would be a wise move.

 

[Madtiger2006]

If Graham jumped at centre bounces he'd be worth keeping. As I said earlier we need a 200cm+ ruckman who can touch the top of the backboard

 

[Madison]

Tuck should play, maybe not every game.

I'm worried about the load the Cotch is carrying.

 

[aislegi]

So there is a chance both Graham and Tuck won't be here next season so we must ask is there a point of playing them if one or both wont be here next year?

FWIW I personally am sick to death of all the chanting for Tuck to play when we all know he isn't going to be coming out of our race in 2012 so whats the point.

Graham on the other hand I believe will retain his spot on the list and playing him again this season would be a wise move.

Tuck is a hack and not the answer. Graham, on the other hand, looks very good at times. Sadly, however, he is one of many players for whom playing for Richmond is not enough to get him motivated to go out there and crack some heads and use his size in the way we wish he might.

 

[camsmith]

Tuck is a hack and not the answer. Graham, on the other hand, looks very good at times. Sadly, however, he is one of many players for whom playing for Richmond is not enough to get him motivated to go out there and crack some heads and use his size in the way we wish he might.

No need to lie.

I would pick him ahead of 90% of the team atm. How about we just send our best team out each week? There's a new idea, make young players EARN their spots. Play well for Coburg and you get in the side... would probably do them a world of good instead of handing a spot in the seniors on a platter.

Wearing a Richmond jumper shouldn't come easy.

 

[TimeFor11]

No need to lie.

I would pick him ahead of 90% of the team atm. How about we just send our best team out each week? There's a new idea, make young players EARN their spots. Play well for Coburg and you get in the side... would probably do them a world of good instead of handing a spot in the seniors on a platter.

Wearing a Richmond jumper shouldn't come easy.

I too believe he is in our top 22 in terms of output each player provides on game day but he is simply not part of the direction we are taking and playing him would be one of these "short cuts"

 

[NQTIGER]

No need to lie.

I would pick him ahead of 90% of the team atm. How about we just send our best team out each week? There's a new idea, make young players EARN their spots. Play well for Coburg and you get in the side... would probably do them a world of good instead of handing a spot in the seniors on a platter.

Wearing a Richmond jumper shouldn't come easy.

Mitch Farmer, Tom Hislop?

 

[Bruce Monteath]

I firmly believe we would have won more games (including possibly Saturday night) with Tuck in the side.

That said, if either he or the administration have decided he is moving on next year, then there is no reason to play him again this year. We need to teach our younger brigade to win their own ball or recruit someone else who will (the more likely scenario).

Our treatment of Tuck has been appalling, but the horse has bolted.

We should have played Graham on Saturday night as well. Vick can't do it all on his own and he provides more value as 2nd ruck, resting forward.

We desperately need a genuine clearance midfielder. (Someone like Tucky...)

It's all about the draft now. Again.

 

[Goldust]

Wearing a Richmond jumper shouldn't come easy.

COULDN'T agree more mate!

 

[Neen]

I struggle with the notion that players paper's are signed midway through a season. A club signs a player to run out and represent the team. If he is good enough to play, then he should. The treatment of Shane Tuck by the RFC has been disgraceful. Sure, our developing midfield has class stamped all over it, but how quickly the club forget that before Dusty arrived, Foley resumed from his 2 year injury and Cotchin had his first ever full preseason, we had Tuck, Jackson, Cousins and Cotchin (limited) running around carrying the load. Now we have a fantastic starting midfield but no rotation depth at all. Tuck is depth midfielder that is better than Grigg, Jackson and Edwards (at this point).

Look at what Carton did with Heath Scotland or the Eagles did with Andrew Embley. We tried the same thing with Cousins, but he was struggling to get on the park. With Tuck we have a fit and seasoned player. He won't play in out next premiership, but neither will Newman, Hislop, Grigg, Miller, Farmer, Thursfiled or Jackson.

Tuck was always going to be a center clearance specialist, playing off the bench. Something we have lacked for the last 6 weeks. How the club has struck a line through his name is unprofessional.

Angus Graham has the physique to be a mobile ruckmen, but he skills around the ground have not developed. I guess this is because he has no engine to keep up with the modern day ruckmen. He really struggles to get off the ground. I'd like to see how he copes with a full pre season that concentrates on his engine. At this point, Browne has scope for development and has age on his side. I'd like to see big Angus be more of a supportive role to Browne. Having said that, both are "C" grade ruckmen and if we are able to trade for an "A" grade ruckmen than Angus may be squeezed out. I can't see Browne developing past a "B" Grade Ruckman.

Tuck is in our best 22. Graham is not.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Just on Graham, apparently he gave Bellchambers a touch up on the weekend in the 2s. I am not sure if anyone else can confirm or deny this?

There are quite a few people around here who would be more than interested in obtaining Bellchambers via trade to become a first ruck. So, if Graham cab beat him up at VFL level, does it make much sense to want Bellchambers to come in and play ahead of Graham?

Interested to hear from some people who watched the VFL game at Craigieburn on the weekend.

I suspect Graham will likely come in to the team bound for Cairns this weekend.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Angus is a lock for next year. Played enough good footy this year at times to stick with. I think the big question with him is "can we build his tank?". We do need another Ruckman but that doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bath water. Same goes with Brown. It is frustrating to see some of the porr performances they have both put in but have a read about some of the comments posted on here about Brown after the Dream time game and about Gus after the North and Freo games.

I think alot of posters on here are just as inconsistant as the two of them. As for the Hislop love on this board when he was promoted ,,,,,,, give your selves an upper cut.

 

[Bazzar]

If Graham jumped at centre bounces he'd be worth keeping. As I said earlier we need a 200cm+ ruckman who can touch the top of the backboard

Apart from the Bulldogs game and parts of the Freo game against Sandi, what other game this year has he never jumped? This is one of the biggest myths going around.

Even the Freo game, the week before Sandi had 57 hitouts and was in rare form, against us Gus negated him and dragged him back to 43 @ 28% and although Gus only had 12 it was @42% and around the ground was as good as he has played in a Richmond jumper, 100% eff, 6 marks, 8 tackles, 16 pressure acts, 112dt points if your into that kind of thing, and against the Dogs even though he went the man and not the ball he beat Hudson in the ruck but was down around the ground, and Hudson had a ripper around the ground .

Im still convinced Gus wasnt dropped, but rested for Browne to get his 8 game block, and he will be back this week for the rest of the year as our number one ruck.

 

[tiggywigs]

Have never understood the disdain for Tuck on these boards. At worst, he is ball magnet at centre clearances who bangs the ball high and forward indiscriminately. Gee, what a huge problem when you have a two or three quality tall forwards (if you include Griffiths).

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Tuck is a hack and not the answer. Graham, on the other hand, looks very good at times. Sadly, however, he is one of many players for whom playing for Richmond is not enough to get him motivated to go out there and crack some heads and use his size in the way we wish he might.

no. just no.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

its a disgrace how richmond are treating shane tuck.
multiple top 5 best and fairest finisher.
and also a winner of the best clubman award showing how much tucky cares about the tigers but how little the tigers seem to care about him.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

The whole Shane Tuck business is just mind boggling really.
Ok he's not an elite midfielder but he's very good in there.

Let's get bloody realistic a Shane Tuck would be in and out if he were currently at Collingwood or Carlton a bit like say Shane Obree toward the end, but I don't see any Judd and Murphy or Pendlebury and Swan running around surrounded by there ample choice of excellent rotations.
Cotchin,Foley,Martin...........fresh air

 

[NQTIGER]

The whole Shane Tuck business is just mind boggling really.
Ok he's not an elite midfielder but he's very good in there.

Let's get bloody realistic a Shane Tuck would be in and out if he were currently at Collingwood or Carlton a bit like say Shane Obree toward the end, but I don't see any Judd and Murphy or Pendlebury and Swan running around surrounded by there ample choice of excellent rotations.
Cotchin,Foley,Martin...........fresh air

Yeah yeah...but but but its not development......its better to teach the kids to get bashed and lose than to protect and win.

 

[Tiger Titus]

Apart from the Bulldogs game and parts of the Freo game against Sandi, what other game this year has he never jumped? This is one of the biggest myths going around.

Even the Freo game, the week before Sandi had 57 hitouts and was in rare form, against us Gus negated him and dragged him back to 43 @ 28% and although Gus only had 12 it was @42% and around the ground was as good as he has played in a Richmond jumper, 100% eff, 6 marks, 8 tackles, 16 pressure acts, 112dt points if your into that kind of thing, and against the Dogs even though he went the man and not the ball he beat Hudson in the ruck but was down around the ground, and Hudson had a ripper around the ground .

Im still convinced Gus wasnt dropped, but rested for Browne to get his 8 game block, and he will be back this week for the rest of the year as our number one ruck.

I don't know about Gus being rested, but I agree that he still potentially has a part to play. It blows my mind reading comments around here saying that Browne is showing more than Graham. If the AFL went back to a 4 man bench then Graham would be straight back in and he'd be more than handy. He's twice the player Browne is.

Having said that, I liked our tall structure against the Bombers. The worst thing was that the young fella's need to develop bigger tanks, but there were some promising signs.

I voted no to both. No to Tuck because he's going to be delisted (as much as I would love him over Grigg right now), and no to Gus because the young blokes should be given a few more weeks (but he'll be there next year).

 

[bigstyletiger]

Have never understood the disdain for Tuck on these boards. At worst, he is ball magnet at centre clearances who bangs the ball high and forward indiscriminately. Gee, what a huge problem when you have a two or three quality tall forwards (if you include Griffiths).

The bombers killed us in the second half last week as they moved the ball with purpose from clearances. They almost always had 2/3 players on the rear side of a stoppage ready to recieve and spread from the contest and they used these players.

Tucky plays old school footy which just wont help our midfield develop the required structure/ball movement we need to be a quality outfit. It's time to move on. Graham however should come back in.