List Mgmt. The KPP thread

[Taylor]

Kersten and Mayne have comparable stats with one being in a team that averaged about 30 points more than us a game. Temper expectations.

 

[M_rash]

Who cares how many goals our forwards kick. It's more about how many our defenders restrict the opposition to.

If we want more goals, we need more repeat i50. Tall players leading up the wing are ok, but we can maximise his height and worry opposition teams if our forwards learn to create space for each other - something I'm hopeful of now Pav has gone.

 

[meima]

who care how many goal Tab score , as long overall the team win. If tab push to the win , and winger like b.hill, tucker make overlapping run and provide assist to apeness or fyfe to score.

 

[Freomaniac]

Well since you bump this thread , I would like to know how many KPP in freo list are capable of playing swingmen, ruck and mid .

Looking at Freos 2017 KPP stocks the age difference is interesting to say the least.

Take out Zac Clarke who is 27-28 years old, All our KPPs are ether aged 30 or over or 23 or younger.

-Backline: Dawson and Johnson are over 30. We might need one to stay in the 2018 season as depth. Alex Pearce is 200cms and 90 kgs and is only 22 years old. Hamling and Collins are both 23 years old and 194cms and 90kgs. Cox and Logue play down back too

-Rucks: Sandilands and Griffin are 30 or over, Clarke is the only KPP in that 24-29 year old range. Apeness has done 3 years, Strnadica and Darcy are rookies.

Forward line: Back in 2013, Freo only had 3 tall forwards: Matthew Pavlich, Kepler Bradley and a rookie in Matt Taberner, Freo in 2017 have got Cam McCarthy, Shane Kersten, Taberner, 2 forward rucks in Apeness and Strnadica and 2 swingmen in Logue and Cox. Freo hae no excuses when it comes to having lack of Key forwards. in 2017.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yep.

Tabs has improved every year and finished the year in the Top 20 for contested marks.... something nobody on this board would have thought possible two years ago. His goal average has increased every year he has been on our list:

View attachment 333729

All we need him to do is keep improving his game and ability to impact over 4qtrs.

I am hopefully that he can get to around the 30-35 goal mark this season. If we can get Walters/McCarthy/Tabs/Kersten/Ballas all around the 30 goal mark we'd be going very well. We don't have a superstar up forward, what we need is an even contribution.

I see Freo going to average 12-13 goals a game again in 2017. So Potentially 82-96 points a game.

If that's the Case I predict 176 goals or 8 goals a game from 5 of our forwards. So basically Walters gets 40, Ballantyne gets 30 and Kersten gets 30. so that's 110 goals from those 3. McCarthy gets 36 goals and either Apeness/Tabs gets 30 goals.

Then the mids contribute 88-110 goals or 4-5 goals a game.

 

[heavho]

So is Key position players still our hole to fill going forward ? or is it something else ? You would have to say in terms of A +grade key position players we still lack that X factor. McCarthy could come close but still too early
To know. Maybe logue down the track.... we have seen what the others can do. Next years draft will be a interesting one

 

[Docker82]

So is Key position players still our hole to fill going forward ? or is it something else ? You would have to say in terms of A +grade key position players we still lack that X factor. McCarthy could come close but still too early
To know. Maybe logue down the track.... we have seen what the others can do. Next years draft will be a interesting one

We're OK down back IMO. A.Pearce, Hamling and Logue with Collins as depth is easily good enough IMO if they develop as expected. The players around them will also be important. We have enough players trying to play those positions so hopefully at least 3-4 are worthy of selection.

Up forward I don't see any point unless it's a real gun like a top five draft pick, Hogan (2-3 years down the track) etc. In time my opinion could change here. I'm certainly not as confident as I am down back. Again the smaller players around them may be as important.

Rucks are still what most of us see as our biggest weakness going forward. Darcy is a good start but will be a development player for a few years yet.

Overall I think we'll be trading maybe a second or third round pick for a ruck this year. Our first rounder probably gets used on a midfielder (still think we can do with one extra elite inside mid) unless there's an absolute freak KPF available. Small forwards and more mids probably the focus from then on with the potential for another mature aged ruck depending on how many of Sandilands/Clarke/Griffin are still on our list and how confident the coaching staff are in development of our younger rucks.

Of course it's a long way away from the end of the season. It'll be interesting to see how our opinions change over the season. That and I'm just guessing anyway based off the way I see our list which probably isn't the same as everyone.

 

[dcutter]

Looking at Freos 2017 KPP stocks the age difference is interesting to say the least.

Take out Zac Clarke who is 27-28 years old, All our KPPs are ether aged 30 or over or 23 or younger.

-Backline: Dawson and Johnson are over 30. We might need one to stay in the 2018 season as depth. Alex Pearce is 200cms and 90 kgs and is only 22 years old. Hamling and Collins are both 23 years old and 194cms and 90kgs. Cox and Logue play down back too

-Rucks: Sandilands and Griffin are 30 or over, Clarke is the only KPP in that 24-29 year old range. Apeness has done 3 years, Strnadica and Darcy are rookies.

Forward line: Back in 2013, Freo only had 3 tall forwards: Matthew Pavlich, Kepler Bradley and a rookie in Matt Taberner, Freo in 2017 have got Cam McCarthy, Shane Kersten, Taberner, 2 forward rucks in Apeness and Strnadica and 2 swingmen in Logue and Cox. Freo hae no excuses when it comes to having lack of Key forwards. in 2017.

I disagree on a couple of points here.

I reckon your backline is a strength; well stocked and set for the next decade. Peace, Hamling, Collins are all young, big and capable. Flankers and back pocket types Freo seem to have in abundance.

Down forward I think you're still in trouble for 2017.
I agree Freo have accumulated significant young KPP depth up front but mostly its unproven as yet and at the mercy of much development.

Its worth noting Mcarthy can't be seen as key position forward, in a traditional sense. He is the same size as Jack Gunston whose output was diminished in the absence of Roughead and Hale last year.
This is a common oversight amongst many footballing punters who often mistakingly assume Mcarthy will take the reigns of Pav as the next power forward. Whilst his undoubted ability might remain on par with Pav, their is a 15 kg discrepancy that remains.
My point being I believe Mcarthy's output will be significantly boosted with a power forward or two next to him - a luxury he was afforded in his breakout year at GWS. The development of the aforementioned forwards could very well determine just how well Mcarthy can go.

 

[Unique Name]

I disagree on a couple of points here.

I reckon your backline is a strength; well stocked and set for the next decade. Peace, Hamling, Collins are all young, big and capable. Flankers and back pocket types Freo seem to have in abundance.

Down forward I think you're still in trouble for 2017.
I agree Freo have accumulated significant young KPP depth up front but mostly its unproven as yet and at the mercy of much development.

Its worth noting Mcarthy can't be seen as key position forward, in a traditional sense. He is the same size as Jack Gunston whose output was diminished in the absence of Roughead and Hale last year.
This is a common oversight amongst many footballing punters who often mistakingly assume Mcarthy will take the reigns of Pav as the next power forward. Whilst his undoubted ability might remain on par with Pav, their is a 15 kg discrepancy that remains.
My point being I believe Mcarthy's output will be significantly boosted with a power forward or two next to him - a luxury he was afforded in his breakout year at GWS. The development of the aforementioned forwards could very well determine just how well Mcarthy can go.

Fair points.


Not sure how much of the thread you have read but we've been discussing Taberner and if he can turn himself into a serviceable forward (30ish goals). He is improving each year, his height and marking ability* means he will have to be covered by the tallest defender. He doesn't need to become a superstar overnight, just good enough so that the opposition backline don't zone off him and double team Cam Mac.

(*Marking ability based on him being in the top 20 for contested marks)

Personally I don't think it's a Kersten or Tabs debate because Kerstan wouldn't demand a tall defender being only 191cms.

For me:

Walters - McCarthy - Bennell
Kersten - Taberner - Ballas

Apeness rotating through as the ruck forward.


We don't have a power forward that will kick 55 goals+. The best we can hope for is an even contribution.
I don't think this is an outlandish ask:
Walters, McCarthy - 35ish goals
Tabs, Kersten, Fyfe - 30ish goals
Apeness, Ballas, Bennell - 20ish goals


The biggest IF with our forward line is IF the forward 50 entries improve and IF Ross can implement a gameplan that has multiple avenues to goal that doesn't revolve around hoofing the ball inside 50 and hoping.

 

[Superkoops]

Some interesting points made around the age differential. With Sandilands and Griffin both a good chance to go at the end of the year then we will need to look at adding to this area. Also the rucks tend to suffer injuries more than most so you need depth. A lot will depend on Zarke. If he recovers well and shows some good AFL form in 2017 then he does have the potential to be number 1 ruck with suppport from the rest. If he continues the injury and form line of the past couple of seasons then his time is up and we need to replace him with a second string ruck looking for more game time around that 24-26 age range (ie Hickey or Nicholls etc). Similar to Geelong picking up Zac Smith and what the Hawks have done for ages.

 

[salim malik]

Fair points.


Not sure how much of the thread you have read but we've been discussing Taberner and if he can turn himself into a serviceable forward (30ish goals). He is improving each year, his height and marking ability* means he will have to be covered by the tallest defender. He doesn't need to become a superstar overnight, just good enough so that the opposition backline don't zone off him and double team Cam Mac.

(*Marking ability based on him being in the top 20 for contested marks)

Personally I don't think it's a Kersten or Tabs debate because Kerstan wouldn't demand a tall defender being only 191cms.

For me:

Walters - McCarthy - Bennell
Kersten - Taberner - Ballas

Apeness rotating through as the ruck forward.


We don't have a power forward that will kick 55 goals+. The best we can hope for is an even contribution.
I don't think this is an outlandish ask:
Walters, McCarthy - 35ish goals
Tabs, Kersten, Fyfe - 30ish goals
Apeness, Ballas, Bennell - 20ish goals


The biggest IF with our forward line is IF the forward 50 entries improve and IF Ross can implement a gameplan that has multiple avenues to goal that doesn't revolve around hoofing the ball inside 50 and hoping.

Fyfe has been spending a lot of time forward in pre season drills. One on one marking duels with our KPD'S. Fyfe's 30ish goals could push out to the 50/60 mark if he does spend a lot of time forward.

 

[dcutter]

Fair points.


Not sure how much of the thread you have read but we've been discussing Taberner and if he can turn himself into a serviceable forward (30ish goals). He is improving each year, his height and marking ability* means he will have to be covered by the tallest defender. He doesn't need to become a superstar overnight, just good enough so that the opposition backline don't zone off him and double team Cam Mac.

(*Marking ability based on him being in the top 20 for contested marks)

Personally I don't think it's a Kersten or Tabs debate because Kerstan wouldn't demand a tall defender being only 191cms.

For me:

Walters - McCarthy - Bennell
Kersten - Taberner - Ballas

Apeness rotating through as the ruck forward.


We don't have a power forward that will kick 55 goals+. The best we can hope for is an even contribution.
I don't think this is an outlandish ask:
Walters, McCarthy - 35ish goals
Tabs, Kersten, Fyfe - 30ish goals
Apeness, Ballas, Bennell - 20ish goals


The biggest IF with our forward line is IF the forward 50 entries improve and IF Ross can implement a gameplan that has multiple avenues to goal that doesn't revolve around hoofing the ball inside 50 and hoping.

Ah I see, admittedly i've only read parts of this thread.

Yeah he's a big man Tabener- interesting to see how he goes without Pav down there who demanded so much attention from team mates and opposition players alike for such an extended period of time.

Still somewhat hard to gauge this forward line due to fitness queries, new additions etc. but it seemingly does have significant upside if up and going. Maybe even holds some comparisons with the Western Bulldogs but as you suggested, will be interesting to see what Ross brings in terms of trekking a route to goal.

Brad Hill for all his flaws is an elite kick inside 50 and an absolute strength of his game.
This can't be understated enough. His ability to connect up and deliver silver service inside 50 is as much the hawks loss as it is the dockers gain .

*Sorry I . didn't get to respond to your previous post on another thread - was pulled before I got time to reply

 

[Scham]

I disagree on a couple of points here.

I reckon your backline is a strength; well stocked and set for the next decade. Peace, Hamling, Collins are all young, big and capable. Flankers and back pocket types Freo seem to have in abundance.

Down forward I think you're still in trouble for 2017.
I agree Freo have accumulated significant young KPP depth up front but mostly its unproven as yet and at the mercy of much development.

Its worth noting Mcarthy can't be seen as key position forward, in a traditional sense. He is the same size as Jack Gunston whose output was diminished in the absence of Roughead and Hale last year.
This is a common oversight amongst many footballing punters who often mistakingly assume Mcarthy will take the reigns of Pav as the next power forward. Whilst his undoubted ability might remain on par with Pav, their is a 15 kg discrepancy that remains.
My point being I believe Mcarthy's output will be significantly boosted with a power forward or two next to him - a luxury he was afforded in his breakout year at GWS. The development of the aforementioned forwards could very well determine just how well Mcarthy can go.

Agree re: McCarthy, he's a Mayne replacement rather than a Pav replacement

 

[DudleyDocker]

Sorry I . didn't get to respond to your previous post on another thread - was pulled before I got time to reply

Geez, you guys have all the luck...

 

[Screen Name]

Kersten and Mayne have comparable stats with one being in a team that averaged about 30 points more than us a game. Temper expectations.

I don't think anyone has massive expectations of Kersten. The two we need to compare are Kersten and Taberner anyway. Besides Kersten was a 22 year old key forward last season playing as the third tall, he has time.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

Fyfe has been spending a lot of time forward in pre season drills. One on one marking duels with our KPD'S. Fyfe's 30ish goals could push out to the 50/60 mark if he does spend a lot of time forward.

More time forward especially if Blakely keeps progressing the way he is at the moment.

 

[Freomaniac]

I disagree on a couple of points here.

I reckon your backline is a strength; well stocked and set for the next decade. Peace, Hamling, Collins are all young, big and capable. Flankers and back pocket types Freo seem to have in abundance.

Down forward I think you're still in trouble for 2017.
I agree Freo have accumulated significant young KPP depth up front but mostly its unproven as yet and at the mercy of much development.

Its worth noting Mcarthy can't be seen as key position forward, in a traditional sense. He is the same size as Jack Gunston whose output was diminished in the absence of Roughead and Hale last year.
This is a common oversight amongst many footballing punters who often mistakingly assume Mcarthy will take the reigns of Pav as the next power forward. Whilst his undoubted ability might remain on par with Pav, their is a 15 kg discrepancy that remains.
My point being I believe Mcarthy's output will be significantly boosted with a power forward or two next to him - a luxury he was afforded in his breakout year at GWS. The development of the aforementioned forwards could very well determine just how well Mcarthy can go.

interesting points. As for the 3 Tall backs you mentioned...

-Hamling is Our Michael Johnson. Yes he is 194 cms and can play as a Key defender but Like Johnson in his prime at freo is a spar 3rd tall on the back pocket and Back flanks.

-Collins is our new zac Dawson, a traditional stopper whos sole job is to nullify the oppositions spear head. The biggest difference is Collins is a semi reliable kick.

- Alex Pearce in my opinion is the best out of the 3. He is 200 cms and 90 kgs. Not expected to take down the Elite forwards. He is assigned to take down the 2nd talls or Any opposition ruckmen that play up forward. Mind you he did a good job against tex walker early last year when freo took on the crows in Adelaide.

I agree with your view on the tall forwards. Yes there is Quantity meaning there is a large amount of guys that can play as key for wards. The problem is the Quality and the experience. Pavlich retired with 353 games under the belt. Freos forward stocks don't even have 200 games under the belt.

I agree Kersten and McCarthy are not power forwards. But they are able to play CHF. Kersten and McCarthy are Chris Tarrant type forwards where they score goals from set shots after marking from a lead. The only guy on our List that has the potential to be a power forward is apeness.

 

[freoextra]

interesting points. As for the 3 Tall backs you mentioned...

-Hamling is Our Michael Johnson. Yes he is 194 cms and can play as a Key defender but Like Johnson in his prime at freo is a spar 3rd tall on the back pocket and Back flanks.

-Collins is our new zac Dawson, a traditional stopper whos sole job is to nullify the oppositions spear head. The biggest difference is Collins is a semi reliable kick.

- Alex Pearce in my opinion is the best out of the 3. He is 200 cms and 90 kgs. Not expected to take down the Elite forwards. He is assigned to take down the 2nd talls or Any opposition ruckmen that play up forward. Mind you he did a good job against tex walker early last year when freo took on the crows in Adelaide.

I agree with your view on the tall forwards. Yes there is Quantity meaning there is a large amount of guys that can play as key for wards. The problem is the Quality and the experience. Pavlich retired with 353 games under the belt. Freos forward stocks don't even have 200 games under the belt.

I agree Kersten and McCarthy are not power forwards. But they are able to play CHF. Kersten and McCarthy are Chris Tarrant type forwards where they score goals from set shots after marking from a lead. The only guy on our List that has the potential to be a power forward is apeness.

Does Taberner not have the "potential" to be a power forward, he certainly has the size and build to fit the role now. Not having a shot, as I am not sure of the answer either.

Seems your buddy/rookie selection may well be the bolter for the power forward role in the future but of course is currently miles away and unproven (great that he can kick though!!)

 

[Freomaniac]

Does Taberner not have the "potential" to be a power forward, he certainly has the size and build to fit the role now. Not having a shot, as I am not sure of the answer either.

Seems your buddy/rookie selection may well be the bolter for the power forward role in the future but of course is currently miles away and unproven (great that he can kick though!!)

Tabs isn't the type of guy that's going to be as good as Tex Walker or Tom Hawkins or Jono Brown. Tabs is good at taking chest marks but at best he is a 25-30 goal a season type forward. He might get 40 in 1 year.

Strnadica has more upside than Taberner. Can play up forward and ruck. Decent set shot at goal too. Not up to Maynes phenomenal 2012 and 2013 standards in set shots but can be a decent player.

 

[Taylor]

I don't think anyone has massive expectations of Kersten. The two we need to compare are Kersten and Taberner anyway. Besides Kersten was a 22 year old key forward last season playing as the third tall, he has time.

Kersten is closer to Mayne in height than he is to Tabs and isn't a big contested mark, so I compare them in that regard.

His weapon is real pace, I don't expect him to be a marking option.

 

[meima]

Tabs isn't the type of guy that's going to be as good as Tex Walker or Tom Hawkins or Jono Brown. Tabs is good at taking chest marks but at best he is a 25-30 goal a season type forward. He might get 40 in 1 year.

Strnadica has more upside than Taberner. Can play up forward and ruck. Decent set shot at goal too. Not up to Maynes phenomenal 2012 and 2013 standards in set shots but can be a decent player.

Strnadica could potentially be freo future power forward . can't see him spend too much time on ruck . Just need to build his endurance and strength , he already a good mark and kick .

 

[sherrif]

Agree re: McCarthy, he's a Mayne replacement rather than a Pav replacement

I would have thought he is a bit of both. Mayne/Pav replacement. He played as the second tall forward when he was regularly kicking goals for GWS in early 2015. Patton was out with a knee injury.

Kersten is closer to Mayne in height than he is to Tabs and isn't a big contested mark, so I compare them in that regard.

His weapon is real pace, I don't expect him to be a marking option.

For what it is worth I spoke to Geelong fanatic supporter who is a mate of mine. He said that Kersten was an outstanding contested mark at VFL level in 2016,but when he played AFL his position was to lead early and create space for Hawkins to lead into. He effectively played as a decoy/defensive forward at AFL level most games. If you go to the trade thread there were plenty of Geelong supporters angry that they had let him go without giving him a chance in his best role. His contested marking might actually be a massive surprise in good way. I remember when he was drafted he was described as a natural key forward who was an exceptional kick. In terms of size he is a massive unit. (191cm and 93kg) Potentially, I could see him outmarking key defenders.

 

[Big Animal]

I would have thought he is a bit of both. Mayne/Pav replacement. He played as the second tall forward when he was regularly kicking goals for GWS in early 2015. Patton was out with a knee injury.

For what it is worth I spoke to Geelong fanatic supporter who is a mate of mine. He said that Kersten was an outstanding contested mark at VFL level in 2016,but when he played AFL his position was to lead early and create space for Hawkins to lead into. He effectively played as a decoy/defensive forward at AFL level most games. If you go to the trade thread there were plenty of Geelong supporters angry that they had let him go without giving him a chance in his best role. His contested marking might actually be a massive surprise in good way. I remember when he was drafted he was described as a natural key forward who was an exceptional kick. In terms of size he is a massive unit. (191cm and 93kg) Potentially, I could see him outmarking key defenders.

Cool. so a bit of a Darling type role minus the fear and pez head

 

[Kenny_01]

McCarthy is a far better natural forward than Mayne. Let's not fall into the trap of trying to label players as certain types. McCarthy will be fine being one of the two focal points in attack and will kick lots of goals.

 

[theGav56]

Work In Progress. That is the title of our forward line. but it does have a few things going for it.

In terms of X factor, I am hoping that Logue and Fyfe will one day be rolling through midfield and forward lines. Nothing much to base it on as Logue is yet to debut, but is is the area we are least settled in and where I would put some resources.

Of course I am hoping that all of the other candidates we have for the forward line do well, especially McCarthy and Apeness, but Fyfe is our trump......and I don't mean that in an orange glowy kind of way.