The mess since the Warne retirement

[pluga_4]

We've now played 40 tests since the warne retirement.

As a team they've done ok winning 20, losing 12 and drawing 8
(and haven't played bangladesh or zimbabwe in that time).

Now we were never going to replace warnie overnight, but with all the talk about him making a possible comeback, makes you wonder had he played those 40 tests that he could've got himself another 150+ wickets.

Only spinner is hauritz who has played more than 5 tests since the warne retirement.

*Note: macgill and hogg both retired after getting first crack at taking over.
*Note: white and smith were picked as the spinner.
*Note: symonds, north, clarke and katich have all had a trundle in that time but played as batsmen.

Total wickets since warne retirement: 58 hauritz, 13 krejza (yes, and he only played 2 tests !!!!!) , 10 macgill, 8 hogg, 5 white, 3 smith, 3 doherty, 3 casson, 0 mcgain....beer ?


MacGill 4 tests, 10 @ 65.10
Hogg 3 tests, 8 @ 60.13
Hauritz 16 tests, 58 @ 36.22
Casson 1 test, 3 @ 43.00
White 4 tests, 5 @ 68.40
Krejza 2 tests, 13 @ 43.23
McGain 1 test, 0 wickets
Smith 2 tests, 3 @ 27.33
Doherty 2 tests, 3 @ 102.00
Beer ?????????????????

Total 35 tests, 103 @ 46.63

Hopefully someone will emerge sooner rather than later.

Is O'keefe the only other spinner untried thats on the scene ?

 

[Listed]

They should just go with four pace bowlers and let Pup throw a few down every now and again until they can find someone worthy of a call-up.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Doherty 2 tests, 3 @ 102.00

And if Pietersen hadn't tried to slog him into tomorrow, it would be far higher.

The problem we've had in previous years with spinners is the emphasis on quick and medium pacers in Sheffield Shield cricket. At one time, not one spinner was playing Shield cricket. They were opting for medium quicks and part-time spinners who could bat.

A few years ago we saw a very promising leggie named Cullen Bailey, contracted by the ACB. Rather than play him in the Redbacks team, he was perennial 12th man, touring the country carrying the drinks. When they played in Adelaide he was able to drop back and play for his local club, but each week this happened, his team was batting.

For the best part of 2 seasons, Bailey hardly bowled a ball in a serious match, and needless to say his bowling went backwards. Spinners need bowling, and plenty of it, otherwise we are just wasting their time.

I'd like to see less emphasis on who wins the Sheffield Shield and more on nurturing potential Test players. A good start would be a compulsory rule where each state has to play 2 spinners ... and BOWL them. And I'm talking about REAL spinners ... leggies, chinamen, and genuine off spinnes. Left arm orthodox nothing bowlers are not an option.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

I'd like to see less emphasis on who wins the Sheffield Shield and more on nurturing potential Test players. A good start would be a compulsory rule where each state has to play 2 spinners ... and BOWL them. And I'm talking about REAL spinners ... leggies, chinamen, and genuine off spinnes. Left arm orthodox nothing bowlers are not an option.

Nice idea in theory, but completely unworkable in practice.

IMHO, a simpler approach would be to pay State teams a reward when their players make the national team, rather than paying them to win matches. That way they'd be encouraged to foster talent. The problem at the moment, is that teams mostly care about winning matches and not so much about developing young players.

The situation in NSW is a classic example... O'Keefe gets dumped back to grade cricket because suddenly Hauritz is available. Long term, O'Keefe looks to be the better prospect. But NSW want to win matches, so they pick Hauritz.

 

[dan warna]

Not just Warne but McGrath, Dizzy, and a support crew of Hughes, McDermott, Bichel, Lee, Kasperwisc, Reiffel, Fleming, even McGill was a quality spinner is undoubtedly a period of sustained quality talent, all of whom, if they were in their prime, would walk into the current test side.

Add to that some exceptional batting talent averaging OVER 50 Border, punter, S.Waugh, Haydo's

and those between 45 and 50:
Gilchrist, Martyn, Langer, Martyn, Deano,

Most playing between 50 plus tests.

Throw in a period of sustained fielding discipline, with M. Waugh, M. taylor and Warne in the slips, and some fantastic close in fielders of deano, s.waugh, punter, MJ, boonie, martyn, and finish of with two great keepers, Gilchrist and Healy (people all devalue Gilchrists keeping because he was a brilliant bat, but I can't remember more than a few catches through his 100 game career that he dropped, while haddin seems to drop 1 per test match).

Warne was a great bowler, but it helped that he had two great keepers, a brilliant slip squad, and outfielders who didn't get lost in the sun, or the crowd etc...there were no excuses for the aussies for 20 years, and now there are...

We've been blessed for 20 years.

We got arrogant and lazy.

And all good things come to an end.

Its about what we do now to build the talent again, leadership, physio, conditioning and coaching...

Looking at Smith, Khawaja, O'keefe, Keath, Pattinson, McDermott, wade, paine, and start building. etc etc.

Its time to stop acting like england in the late 80s and through the 90s, shuffling the deckchairs, and build a team from scratch with intelligent leadership, yes White, or M. Hussey, or even yes, even Katich. I don't particularly like NSWers but Katich, when he gets fit, is far more capable leadership than clarke.

 

[skipper kelly]

Long before Warne retired many experts said he had lost the magic.

 

[TheMase]

^^^^

I think NSW is probably a poor example given the amount of young guys they seem to back.

 

[sherb]

And if Pietersen hadn't tried to slog him into tomorrow, it would be far higher.

And if Johnson knew how to catch, or if Pietersen's skewed shot early in his Adelaide innings had gone to a fieldsman, it could have been far less. Ifs, buts and maybes work both ways.

You have made your blind hatred for Doherty clear in multiple and repeated posts. Move on.

 

[The Fonz]

There are indeed some strange things happening such as:
*Why Beau Casson was mysteriously dropped after 1 Test?
*Why Cameron White was picked as the specialist spinner for a tour of India and hasn't really bowled since?
*Why they would go for someone as obscure as Beer but overlook O'Keefe who not only is a more experienced cricketer but played in the A Game?

To pick Michael Beer using an example as Peter Taylor is just crazy. It's like playing poker and going all in with 2-6. You win the hand and because of it, you allow it to justify anything crazy that you want to do. He basically has next to no first-class experience. How someone is expected to adjust to the massive step up to Test cricket is bewildering.

 

[dan warna]

There are indeed some strange things happening such as:
*Why Beau Casson was mysteriously dropped after 1 Test?
*Why Cameron White was picked as the specialist spinner for a tour of India and hasn't really bowled since?
*Why they would go for someone as obscure as Beer but overlook O'Keefe who not only is a more experienced cricketer but played in the A Game?

To pick Michael Beer using an example as Peter Taylor is just crazy. It's like playing poker and going all in with 2-6. You win the hand and because of it, you allow it to justify anything crazy that you want to do. He basically has next to no first-class experience. How someone is expected to adjust to the massive step up to Test cricket is bewildering.

White is an adequate spinner but he clearly enjoys batting more and is far more competent at that.

Here was a guy who is a quality leader and quality batsman who can spin a bit and was told by the selectors if he wants a test berth to concentrate on his spinning

Now i see a lot of NSW fanboys talking up smith. As i've posted before let the boy bat, even they say he's a quality batsman who can throw over a few overs. If he is going to be the next best thing, then FFS don't let hilditch get in ear and set him back 3 or 4 years.

 

[deeman12]

There doesn't seem to be a method behind the madness. The selectors are just far too arbitrary when it comes to selecting spinners.

Why drop Casson after one test? Why just give Cullen one go? What was the point in selecting a 36 year old to debut? Why destroy Krejza's confidence by dropping him after playing at the WACA? Cam White isn't a spinner anymore. Hauritz has to feel stiff as well? Doherty was an insane selection. How long before the selectors put a black line through Smith's name? Beer will probably follow suit soon enough.

Utter madness.

 

[courtjester]

Just drop Hilditch and let Chappell take over with Mark Taylor, Adam Gilchrist and Glenn McGrath. Hilditch is our worst selector ever.

Our national selectors need to have played the game at its highest level successfully to select properly.

 

[Jef Costello]

l reckon Hilditch played twice as many Tests as two of our former excellent influential selectors John Benaud and Trevor Hohns - who built and maintained our great sides. Hilditch is just a shit selector.

 

[dan warna]

Hohns did nothing but ride the coat tails of the infrastructure put in by benaud, sawle, chappel and simpson.

Hohns should have ensure the migration to the next generation 5 or 6 seasons ago.

About the only thing hohns did was trade krugerrands for dollars and ponce around blaming every one else and get out at the right time.

 

[smoovy]

I think they should have a reality series to find Australia's next spinner. well I'd watch it.

They somehow need to discover someone with rare talent with a couple of tricks and/or can actually spin it a long way. I'm sick of the stock standard first class cricket spinners who do nothing with the ball.

Take Sri Lanka, Murali is gone, but now they have Mendis and Herath who have all sorts of tricks.

 

[Ill Chicken]

The situation in NSW is a classic example... O'Keefe gets dumped back to grade cricket because suddenly Hauritz is available. Long term, O'Keefe looks to be the better prospect. But NSW want to win matches, so they pick Hauritz.

You can't drop an Australian contracted player to grade cricket and it's ridiculous call in it's self considering Hauritz is 29 and is the best spinner in the country.