Opinion The NBA Thread

[Knightmare]

Disagree with everything above in bold. Completely the opposite in my opinion.
Super quick, great agility and will most likely go down in history as the best shooter the game has ever seen. That quick release is something to be marvelled at.

Athletically Curry is below average. Curry is more a Pendlebury like smooth mover - he isn't at all explosive but more evasive and smooth moving. He has quick hands - possibly the quickest shot in NBA history with such a freakishly quick release and he is good getting the steals with his quick hands. But he isn't a guy who will go end to end and finish at the rim. That isn't something he has the ability to do as more a freak shooter both off the dribble and from catch and shoot situations, with his vision for passing that other secondary most exceptional aspect of his play.

Regarding his shot I think he is already the greatest shooter in NBA history certainly. Internationally Oscar Schmidt is the only guy who may arguably have Curry's measure purely based on long range shooting, though off the dribble probably in Curry's league.

Maybe Im a terrible judge of pace but I would have thought if he was in a race against Rose, Westbrook, Teague etc he'd come last.
He's not a Korver, I know he takes a lot more 3's than Korevr but have you seen Korver shoot the ball ? He's nuts and I understand Curry takes more contested 3's but Korver is the better shooter.

Rose, Westbrook, Teague, Wall and Parker are end to end the quickest guys in no particularly order.
Rose and Westbrook are the most talent all round athletes at the position with end to end Teague and Wall the quickest, with Parker more selectively quick and more earlier on in that conversation for pure speed.

On Korver he is the most efficient in the game. And he is a really unselfish shooter. He'll pass when he is no satisfied with his shot but like Ray Allen and Reggie Miller he'll continue to work off the ball to get an open catch and shoot shot. As a catch and shoot guy Korver is better and more efficient than Curry, but off the bounce/dribble Curry is clearly better with that something Korver tends not to frequently attempt. As such I'd call Curry the better overall 3pt shooter because he is the best of both worlds.

But best ever in the NBA in catch and shoot I'd go Kyle Korver (slightly ahead of Steve Kerr though their both in that same conversation) and off the bounce I actually slightly favour Kyrie Irving over Steph Curry with Irving the best ever off the dribble I've seen and probably the most talent dribbler I've seen recently in the game, though Irving just flat-out can't catch and shoot which has led this season to his struggles fitting with LeBron who like Irving likes the ball in his hands and isn't so effective off the ball so again overall Curry I'd award the points to as the overall best 3pt shooter with his total clip combined with his efficiency in doing that like we've never seen - and that includes Ray Allen and Reggie Miller.

Haven't seen much of Korver. Obviously he is (was?) on a huge run of games scoring at least one 3 ball or more but does he only fire from the corner? You put Curry anywhere on the court and he will hit. Can also hit the boosters when he needs to.... Not in the same league as Rose/Westbrook/Collison etc but he's certainly not slow.

Kyle Korver is actually more efficient this season than ever but you're right that he did go on a historic 3pt shooting run regarding consecutive games hitting at least one 3pt shot. This year Korver is hitting a staggering 56% of his 3pt attempts and is leading the NBA in total 3pt attempts with 66. (4 total 3pt shots made ahead of Steph Curry who is third overall this season behind Korver and Matthews). So don't sleep on Korver.

But the difference and why again I slightly prefer Curry as an overall 3pt shooter is he draws significantly more attention than Korver and he doesn't as the primary ball handler for his team get as many easy catch and shoot 3pt attempts with a significant % of his 3s coming off his dribble and from longer 3s (in other words the shots Curry due to position takes are consistently harder).

--
I know with Korver such a freak catch and shoot 3pt shooter LeBron would love to have him on his team with both Irving and Waiters completely absent of catch and shoot ability as guys who operate best off their own dribble.

 

[nahnah]

one day I'll be able to look back over a long period and compare eras but I only have a 10-11 year span to draw upon.
Although I will point out it wasn't that long ago that Jameer Nelson and Mo Williams were the All Star Point guards for the East... I remember when I first started following NBA every team would seemingly have a star player but now they're teaming up which is resulting in lower numbers for the lesser star, eg Bosh, Love. Also means some teams won't have stars like Philly

Korver replacing Waiters would be insane. I can't see Atlanta ever trading him to the cavs tho lol
Irving is the best 3pt shooter off a spin move ever.

 

[Knightmare]

one day I'll be able to look back over a long period and compare eras but I only have a 10-11 year span to draw upon.
Although I will point out it wasn't that long ago that Jameer Nelson and Mo Williams were the All Star Point guards for the East... I remember when I first started following NBA every team would seemingly have a star player but now they're teaming up which is resulting in lower numbers for the lesser star, eg Bosh, Love. Also means some teams won't have stars like Philly

Korver replacing Waiters would be insane. I can't see Atlanta ever trading him to the cavs tho lol
Irving is the best 3pt shooter off a spin move ever.

I just love the old game tapes and seeing the guys play.

In the 50s/60s it was completely inside - pack the paint. Such a hard era for guys like Wilt getting a swarm of 5 guys going to him every time he got the ball. You just need to see gametape to truly appreciate the greatness of some of those past guys.

Philli will be interesting to see build over time as a team who are tanking in the regard that the general manager just wants to destroy that team and continue to accumulate assets until they can make some noise - as Houston did pre Harden/Howard. I think eventually they'll make it due to the nature of the NBA draft with those high picks what can move you most quickly up the standings if you luck into the right guy as a 5 man game with those individuals making so much of an impact. It just really alienates the fanbase to the extent that there will be guys in Philli selling jerseys and hats but only for the other sports and not the 76ers with no one much interested in watching them understanding what that team is looking to achieve.

The Hawks as a team winning games and hoping to win the East I agree even with Korver in his 30s would not move him for Waiters. Waiters on a team needing scoring though and able to accommodate a ball handling orientated shooting guard would be the types of team that should look at him. Maybe Indiana as an example not that they have any similar assets that would be worth the Cavs taking on unless it went towards a larger deal for a combination deal Roy Hibbert.

 

[nahnah]

I just love the old game tapes and seeing the guys play.

In the 50s/60s it was completely inside - pack the paint. Such a hard era for guys like Wilt getting a swarm of 5 guys going to him every time he got the ball. You just need to see gametape to truly appreciate the greatness of some of those past guys.

Philli will be interesting to see build over time as a team who are tanking in the regard that the general manager just wants to destroy that team and continue to accumulate assets until they can make some noise - as Houston did pre Harden/Howard. I think eventually they'll make it due to the nature of the NBA draft with those high picks what can move you most quickly up the standings if you luck into the right guy as a 5 man game with those individuals making so much of an impact. It just really alienates the fanbase to the extent that there will be guys in Philli selling jerseys and hats but only for the other sports and not the 76ers with no one much interested in watching them understanding what that team is looking to achieve.

The Hawks as a team winning games and hoping to win the East I agree even with Korver in his 30s would not move him for Waiters. Waiters on a team needing scoring though and able to accommodate a ball handling orientated shooting guard would be the types of team that should look at him. Maybe Indiana as an example not that they have any similar assets that would be worth the Cavs taking on unless it went towards a larger deal for a combination deal Roy Hibbert.

I disagree on what philly are doing. If you look at the Twolves and cavs, it shows how hard it is to break a 'losing culture' every when you have a decent team. Both those teams should have made playoffs last year. I would say the difference between the Twolves and Suns last season was the culture. The Suns are use to winning but their team shouldn't have won more games than last years twolves in my opinion. The cavs last season should have been top 6 but failed big time. I think Detriot and Knicks are also building a bad culture that is going to be very hard to break even with more talent on the team.

If I was Indiana I would wait till George comes back next season and see how he goes before moving Hibbert, the cavs should definitely try to convince Indiana to trade Hibbert.

Where do you find the old footage ? YouTube ? I've watched a lot of Jordan and Bird but that's about it really.

 

[Knightmare]

I disagree on what philly are doing. If you look at the Twolves and cavs, it shows how hard it is to break a 'losing culture' every when you have a decent team. Both those teams should have made playoffs last year. I would say the difference between the Twolves and Suns last season was the culture. The Suns are use to winning but their team shouldn't have won more games than last years twolves in my opinion. The cavs last season should have been top 6 but failed big time. I think Detriot and Knicks are also building a bad culture that is going to be very hard to break even with more talent on the team.

If I was Indiana I would wait till George comes back next season and see how he goes before moving Hibbert, the cavs should definitely try to convince Indiana to trade Hibbert.

Where do you find the old footage ? YouTube ? I've watched a lot of Jordan and Bird but that's about it really.

Youtube, there is at least one basketball torrent website around that has old game tapes. They're the go to places for basketball games old and new. I also found some of the youtube documentaries of some of the older players to be fascinating viewing.

Detroit and Knicks are not so much a losing culture in the sense that they're tanking but more so just badly fitting pieces that in combination just don't work. I would agree that some of the guys in those locker-rooms are not guys you'd want on your team. But they could pretty easily shake things up and have more competitive teams as soon as next season really if they make good decisions.

The Twolves are a team I expect to remain relatively down even with all those top picks. They just don't feel like they've got the pieces to out West become a playoff team unless they luck into someone through the draft. Additionally their player development historically as well as their draft history has been woeful which is that other reason I don't necessarily see them becoming relevant.

The Suns rose as a result of being well coached and implementing a system that really worked with their players. They were't down long and never really had a loosing culture to start with. They seemed like an overachieving team last year but their players developed like crazy and their personnel really thrived in that system with that whole team really going about it unselfishly and with a real winning mentality which has also helped.

With Philli I agree regarding the losers mentality. I just think with Sam Hinkie as GM as a moneyball guy who has learnt under Daryl Morey I feel pretty strongly that eventually (2-3 seasons from now) that we will see a real rise. Like with Daryl Morey who just finds guys from nowhere and consistently nails his draft selections, it's the same story with Sam Hinkie. Joel Embiid if healthy is the best from last years draft and Elfrid Payton I also like who they took at 10 but trading him for Dario Saric who will be in Europe for two more years developing as Nikola Mirotic has is a strong move and having watched Saric's tapes I similarly really like his talent. Brett Brown as coach I also really like. He is an excellent developer of talent coming from San Antonio and being a long time Pop assistant and from everything I've heard his player development even in his time with the 76ers has been excellent and we're even this season seeing the rise of nobodies. They're going to be historically bad for another 1, maybe 2 years. But when they get Embiid back and healthy, some European additions and a few more extreme high end draft picks into their system and I think they have a real opportunity to rise with tanking less the issue with their players really playing hard knowing and buying in know that this is their chance to earn a career in the NBA as much as just the management going aggressively down this track.
The Philli approach to rebuilding just flatout wouldn't work in the AFL, but in the NBA unless you're Charlotte level incompetent through the draft, it's still a possible way to build a roster. As much as the fan base won't like it.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Another Knicks loss... glorious. Here we come lottery

 

[BEEG]

Another Knicks loss... glorious. Here we come lottery

They remind me so much of Carlton

 

[Primetime Pricey]

They remind me so much of Carlton

Nah we didnt cap cheat to win

 

[Knightmare]

Another Knicks loss... glorious. Here we come lottery

With Mello struggling with injury. Chandler who was after Mello that clear second piece traded and for me was that real anchor for that team as a real defensive general. Not easy to win in the triangle with a group of reluctant passers who are all about creating their own offence.

Still some talent on that Knicks roster but a shakeup sooner or later will need to happen. Marc Gasol will be the free agent target and the Knicks would be looking to sell him on a core of himself, Mello and Calderon as a fellow Spaniard.

Hardaway and or Shumpert could have some value and might be the Knicks best chance to attract a further piece to again make that team look more attractive to M.Gasol during free agency. Of those I'd learn towards retaining Shumpert for athleticism/defence purposes and purpose move Hardaway (add Dalembert to make salaries work) for perhaps Greg Monroe as an example of someone who may be a suitable piece.

Then move pick 3 or whatever pick is if it's at least top 4 I'd be looking to swing it for a promising SG - maybe Oladipo who could again help with that defence balance while also helping to spread the floor.

If the Knicks miss on M.Gasol then B.Lopez from the Nets could pretty easily be had I imagine as someone who just doesn't fit with the Nets roster and has a horrible injury history, but when available offensively is among the better bigs in the game.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Im glad we got rid of Chandler. He was injured all season and with age and the contract and getting rid of Felton I was stoked.
In no way should we trade our pick. The top 5 are very good.
Goodbye Amare and Barg.
Def going for Gasol. Exactly who we need.
Shumps is tradeable. Want to keep Tim though. Has something about him.

 

[TradeDraft]

They remind me so much of Carlton

I am a Fan of the Knicks. Just have liked them.

Though Phil Jackson has to perform a Miracle to turn this around

 

[BEEG]

I am a Fan of the Knicks. Just have liked them.

Though Phil Jackson has to perform a Miracle to turn this around

Dallas fan love how Cuban goes about it will be hard to watch when Dirk retires one day my all time fav player

 

[the mighty T]

Im glad we got rid of Chandler. He was injured all season and with age and the contract and getting rid of Felton I was stoked.
In no way should we trade our pick. The top 5 are very good.
Goodbye Amare and Barg.
Def going for Gasol. Exactly who we need.
Shumps is tradeable. Want to keep Tim though. Has something about him.

That was such a bad contract for New York and really has set the team back. When I watch them, there's no balance and such a lack of cohesion that the ball inevitably falls to Melo for the shot. If I were the Knicks I'd be trying to pull a trade for Rajon and looking to snare Gasol in FA

 

[BEEG]

That was such a bad contract for New York and really has set the team back. When I watch them, there's no balance and such a lack of cohesion that the ball inevitably falls to Melo for the shot. If I were the Knicks I'd be trying to pull a trade for Rajon and looking to snare Gasol in FA

It's funny that Studs is finally playing ok ball after all the terrible injury prone years

Don't think New York will get M Gasol kind of hope they do basketball needs a good Lakers or Knicks

 

[wicksy]

It's funny that Studs is finally playing ok ball after all the terrible injury prone years

Don't think New York will get M Gasol kind of hope they do basketball needs a good Lakers or Knicks

Let's go with a good Knicks... #clipsfan

 

[BEEG]

Let's go with a good Knicks... #clipsfan

If i had to choose it would be a good Knicks

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Bless ur hearts

 

[wicksy]

Bless ur hearts

Don't get too emotional... I just really hate the Lakers

 

[nahnah]

Glad Cavs didn't blow that 21-0 start. well they did but got the W.
Need to trade for a defensive big and starting 2 guard asap. Lance and Biyombo would be handy...

 

[Knightmare]

Glad Cavs didn't blow that 21-0 start. well they did but got the W.
Need to trade for a defensive big and starting 2 guard asap. Lance and Biyombo would be handy...

Stephenson wouldn't be my pick at 2 guard for the Cavs. LeBron needs floor spacing and catch and shoot guys. Stephenson this season is going worse than 16% on 3pt attempts. That's just flat out terrible and hits only 0.4 3s per 36 minutes.

Courtney Lee is on a tear at the moment and is hitting 55% on 3pt attempts and plays D so he'd be terrific not that the Griz will let him go as one of their few long range shooters. Kyle Korver as mentioned before as a catch and shoot 3pt shooter would be terrific but similarly the Hawks aren't giving him up the way he is playing on that team at the moment as a contender out east.

Rasual Butler is a cheap but realistic option who might be worth a shot with his 51.5% 3pt shooting percentage.

But I'd be going after Aaron Afflalo from the Nuggets who is surplus in that team with league best depth at just about every position. Afflalo can score and is a very good 3pt shooter but then defensively which with a lazy LeBron (he hasn't played defense these past two seasons and at best his defence could be argued as "selective") and Irving not a defender either making Afflalo a near optimal fit and someone again pretty available.

Biyombo I recommended earlier on in this thread and is a good example of a gettable big who can play D. He is rarely used by Charlotte but his numbers per 36 strong and will rebound and play D so he is a fit as a guy who doesn't need offensive possessions to be a factor which the Cavs need more of.
Same story with guys like Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, Omer Asik but Biyombo being a less critical factor to his team is the more gettable of those types.
I just don't think Biyombo is getting a fair shot for what he is doing. Rudy Gobert is another I really like and I feel is getting underutilised with the Jazz - that guy is so long and again same story - he doesn't need possessions on offense and will only need to finish at the rim and otherwise his block and rebound numbers per 36min are strong.
If the Cavs get either of Biyombo or Gobert that's the kind of piece they could use and realistically get.

 

[wicksy]

Stephenson wouldn't be my pick at 2 guard for the Cavs. LeBron needs floor spacing and catch and shoot guys. Stephenson this season is going worse than 16% on 3pt attempts. That's just flat out terrible and hits only 0.4 3s per 36 minutes.

Courtney Lee is on a tear at the moment and is hitting 55% on 3pt attempts and plays D so he'd be terrific not that the Griz will let him go as one of their few long range shooters. Kyle Korver as mentioned before as a catch and shoot 3pt shooter would be terrific but similarly the Hawks aren't giving him up the way he is playing on that team at the moment as a contender out east.

Rasual Butler is a cheap but realistic option who might be worth a shot with his 51.5% 3pt shooting percentage.

But I'd be going after Aaron Afflalo from the Nuggets who is surplus in that team with league best depth at just about every position. Afflalo can score and is a very good 3pt shooter but then defensively which with a lazy LeBron (he hasn't played defense these past two seasons and at best his defence could be argued as "selective") and Irving not a defender either making Afflalo a near optimal fit and someone again pretty available.

Biyombo I recommended earlier on in this thread and is a good example of a gettable big who can play D. He is rarely used by Charlotte but his numbers per 36 strong and will rebound and play D so he is a fit as a guy who doesn't need offensive possessions to be a factor which the Cavs need more of.
Same story with guys like Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, Omer Asik but Biyombo being a less critical factor to his team is the more gettable of those types.
I just don't think Biyombo is getting a fair shot for what he is doing. Rudy Gobert is another I really like and I feel is getting underutilised with the Jazz - that guy is so long and again same story - he doesn't need possessions on offense and will only need to finish at the rim and otherwise his block and rebound numbers per 36min are strong.
If the Cavs get either of Biyombo or Gobert that's the kind of piece they could use and realistically get.

There's a guy called Ray Allen that may fit perfectly....

 

[Knightmare]

There's a guy called Ray Allen that may fit perfectly....

The Cavs want not only Ray Allen but also Emeka Okafor if they can get them both as those "final pieces".

It's just a question of whether either/or/both sign on mid season when they start looking to join a team.

If not. The Cavs need alternatives.

 

[Good_Old]

Rondo to the Mavs for 3 future draft picks. I think everyone knew he'd go, not sure I picked him to go to Dallas. Very good fit imo.

 

[Knightmare]

Rondo to the Mavs for 3 future draft picks. I think everyone knew he'd go, not sure I picked him to go to Dallas. Very good fit imo.

There were reports about the Mavs being Rondo's likely destination and the team playing hardest for him and good for them getting the deal done and putting together an attractive enough package to make it happen.

It's an excellent move for the Mavs who obviously want to contend while Dirk is still Dirk to give him one last shot at it.

With the move they become the best in the West and probably the best in the NBA. Having a starting group of Chandler, Dirk, Parsons, Ellis and Rondo is ridiculous.

The key for the Mavs now is really the bench and getting those guys to fill in to an adequate standard which they can if healthy.

Will be interesting to see what responses those other possible contenders make. The Cavs and Houston both have trade exceptions and can essentially get some guys for nothing.

Then many of those contending teams still have their mid level exceptions which could also lead to someone adding a Ray Allen if he doesn't retire and Emeka Okafor probably those two most appealing yet to sign as two who seem to be for now just observing the landscape and looking where their best winning chances are.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

The key for the Mavs now is really the bench and getting those guys to fill in to an adequate standard which they can if healthy.

That's the problem and that's why i dont think they will win it, that starting 5 is sweet however