The new game plan

[youmewe]

First to last in scores conceded from centre bounce clearances.
5th to 15th in scores conceded from turnovers.
3rd best to 3rd worst kicking efficiency.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-05/the-stats-files-how-teams-are-unlocking-the-dockers

 

[Banker]

First to last in scores conceded from centre bounce clearances.
5th to 15th in scores conceded from turnovers.
3rd best to 3rd worst kicking efficiency.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-05/the-stats-files-how-teams-are-unlocking-the-dockers

Thats what happens when you don't keep up with the game + bring in new coaches who have no coaching experience.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Thats what happens when you don't keep up with the game + bring in new coaches who have no coaching experience.

Thank you for your input Banker, I always feel better after reading your insights.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

Thats what happens when you don't keep up with the game + bring in new coaches who have no coaching experience.

IIRC besides from hale, the other new coaches had pretty decent coaching experience.

 

[youmewe]

The scores conceded from centre clearances is troubling as it has nothing to do with a new game plan.

In Rd 1 we had conceded 19 points from this source by midway through the 3rd quarter (didn't catch the final tally). Not a great shock as Sandi wasn't playing.

The 37 points conceded in Rd 2 is a record for any RTB coached team and Sandi contested most of the centre bounces.

In 2015 we averaged five points a game for the season from this source.

 

[schnoods]

The response this year from fans is no different than the first few games in Lyon's first season as coach.

We weren't really challenged during Nab cup and we came up against the hardest runners and a emerging team of hungry competitors who are gaining belief.

They will continue to tweek the plan and get happy mediums. Took WC a season and a half, the bulldogs a half season to find fluidity.

We were too deep last season to start chopping and changing at rd18. If we don't change we will head down the same path Port Adelaide are walking.

Time and faith. It is that open this year that we have time on our side for now and we will get some reprieve and when it clicks it will be tremendous.

 

[Taylor]

One other thing I would like fixed is for someone to bear hug our tackling coach in a way that pins an arm.

There was a passage of play where the commentators popped their corks over a player "freeing the arms" in a Clancee tackle to get the handball away to Jack Martin. What happened there was Clancee wrapped his arms around his opponent's hips and hugged him to try and bring him down.

It is a pointless tackle! It counts as a stat because the disposal didn't go to the opposition, it bounced first, but that only stopped the player running away, he isn't prevented or even slightly impeded from getting the handpass away.

We need tackles that wrap in an elbow, I know they are punching their arms up to draw a free kick but we need to wrap the waist with one arm and grab the elbow with the other hand - if he tries to bring the arm up for a high contact free you push his elbow up and dislocate his shoulder as he hits the ground*


*I'm not serious about that but it would stop them doing it without losing a player for breaking a jaw. That goes across the whole league, last thing I want to see is a Christensen uppercut air punch to draw a high contact free ending in Christensen breaking his jaw and the tackler getting suspended for 3 weeks for aiming a tackle below the nipples.

 

[estibador]

Finally got the chance to watch the game tonight and the OP must be Stevie Wonder if he can't see any difference between our old gameplan and the way we played on Saturday.

Approaching it with a neutral mindset since I already knew the score, I actually found it a highly entertaining game to watch. High octane end-to-end stuff with plenty of non-stop, fast-paced football.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Finally got the chance to watch the game tonight and the OP must be Stevie Wonder if he can't see any difference between our old gameplan and the way we played on Saturday.

So what are the specific differences?
One I have noticed is that our two wingers are remaining outside the centre square at centre bounce downs based on the theory that our four on-ballers will win the clearance and spread it to them out wide as an option. So we're keeping it open by comparison to the past, where the guys on the wing have rushed in to contain the opposition spreading / winning the ball. The unforeseen issue has been that the opposition is winning the clearances and scoring from them.

 

[estibador]

So what are the specific differences?
One I have noticed is that our two wingers are remaining outside the centre square at centre bounce downs based on the theory that our four on-ballers will win the clearance and spread it to them out wide as an option. So we're keeping it open by comparison to the past, where the guys on the wing have rushed in to contain the opposition spreading / winning the ball. The unforeseen issue has been that the opposition is winning the clearances and scoring from them.

I couldn't make the game so couldn't check out the structures too well, but just the obvious manic intent to play on at all costs and keep the ball moving, especially with (often somewhat suicidal) quick handballs through the middle rather than the old, chip, mark, go back, chip mark, go back, gamestyle we're often got bogged down into in the past.

We still have that tendency to bomb the last kick onto the forward's head, but that's largely a function of skill level, and even if we don't improve the skills at least bombing it in there at a more rapid pace will provide more opportunity for our forwards to compete one out, rather than our old style of showing tremendous patience all the way up the field so by the time we bombed the last kick in the opposition had been given time to flood back and turn everything into our forward line into a 1v5.

Obviously our execution is letting us down at the moment, and hopefully that will improve through either familiarity with the new gameplan (like our first few months under Lyon) or through the selective replacement of personnel, but I don't know how anyone could have watched that GC game and not noticed a distinct change in the way we're trying to play.

(The Doggies game I can understand, because we could barely get our hands on it and every time we did they swamped us before you could get an idea of how we were trying to move it).

 

[beetz]

One other thing I would like fixed is for someone to bear hug our tackling coach in a way that pins an arm.

There was a passage of play where the commentators popped their corks over a player "freeing the arms" in a Clancee tackle to get the handball away to Jack Martin. What happened there was Clancee wrapped his arms around his opponent's hips and hugged him to try and bring him down.

It is a pointless tackle! It counts as a stat because the disposal didn't go to the opposition, it bounced first, but that only stopped the player running away, he isn't prevented or even slightly impeded from getting the handpass away.

We need tackles that wrap in an elbow, I know they are punching their arms up to draw a free kick but we need to wrap the waist with one arm and grab the elbow with the other hand - if he tries to bring the arm up for a high contact free you push his elbow up and dislocate his shoulder as he hits the ground*


*I'm not serious about that but it would stop them doing it without losing a player for breaking a jaw. That goes across the whole league, last thing I want to see is a Christensen uppercut air punch to draw a high contact free ending in Christensen breaking his jaw and the tackler getting suspended for 3 weeks for aiming a tackle below the nipples.

That's how you're suppose to tackle, target the hips. Getting cute trying to pin an arm every time is how tackles are missed all together. Sure it happens and looks good but more room for error if you don't catch the arm.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

That's how you're suppose to tackle, target the hips. Getting cute trying to pin an arm every time is how tackles are missed all together. Sure it happens and looks good but more room for error if you don't catch the arm.

Agreed - Just get em tackling like union players - low and hard with your shoulder just above their hips

I know it's different as Union the aim is to bring the player to ground, but if someone has taken a few steps and you floor them after they've had prior the ball will likely just spill out anyway and increase the chance of htb. Plus if it's only one guy tackling hard, rather than a gang tackle, there is a chance for a loose ball get

 

[DudleyDocker]

That's how you're suppose to tackle, target the hips. Getting cute trying to pin an arm every time is how tackles are missed all together. Sure it happens and looks good but more room for error if you don't catch the arm.

No, the aim is to impede the player and stop him getting rid of the ball without infringing.

The good modern tacklers (watch Rioli) tackle the hips, then make sure they pin the delivery arm. Many of our tackles on the weekend were totally ineffective because they allowed the ball player to handpass directly to a team mate running past - often resulting in a goal (yes, Clancee, looking at you!).

 

[salim malik]

So what are the specific differences?
One I have noticed is that our two wingers are remaining outside the centre square at centre bounce downs based on the theory that our four on-ballers will win the clearance and spread it to them out wide as an option. So we're keeping it open by comparison to the past, where the guys on the wing have rushed in to contain the opposition spreading / winning the ball. The unforeseen issue has been that the opposition is winning the clearances and scoring from them.

Less congestion in the centre ball ups. Previously Sandi would drop the ball at his feet,the wingers would move in quickly ,cause a scrum and our big mids would use brute force to get the ball out. If we couldn't clear it the ball would be bottled up and rinse and repeat. This was fine but it did give the opposition backs time to close down our forwards. Now we are trying to finesse the ball out , Sandi even trying the long hit out. The wingers are staying wide waiting for the ball and then the quick transition hopefully into a more open forward half. Bennell and Yarran's pace was going to be important in this transition ,unfortunately we haven't had their presence. My opinion only so if any body else has an opinion on the game plan I would love to hear it.

 

[meima]

Less congestion in the centre ball ups. Previously Sandi would drop the ball at his feet,the wingers would move in quickly ,cause a scrum and our big mids would use brute force to get the ball out. If we couldn't clear it the ball would be bottled up and rinse and repeat. This was fine but it did give the opposition backs time to close down our forwards. Now we are trying to finesse the ball out , Sandi even trying the long hit out. The wingers are staying wide waiting for the ball and then the quick transition hopefully into a more open forward half. Bennell and Yarran's pace was going to be important in this transition ,unfortunately we haven't had their presence. My opinion only so if any body else has an opinion on the game plan I would love to hear it.

Agree , I think the problem with us now is to turn momentum around.

Eg- gold coast kick 2 or 3 in a roll, then we got one beautiful transition play and good mark too but (player a or player b) miss an easy goal. Is like all your momentum go to the drain after so much good work.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Watched the Gold Coast game again last night and while we are still winning the clearances out of the centre and from stoppages, their's were effective and damaging. So we've opened ourselves up at clearances in the aim to be more offensive the result of which is that the opposition enjoys less congestion and is waltzing the ball out. Specifically, our defensive capabilities have been undermined by our decision to reduce the congestion. Less about rule changes as Ross is suggesting and more about our positioning and decision making.

 

[meima]

Watched the Gold Coast game again last night and while we are still winning the clearances out of the centre and from stoppages, their's were effective and damaging. So we've opened ourselves up at clearances in the aim to be more offensive the result of which is that the opposition enjoys less congestion and is waltzing the ball out. Specifically, our defensive capabilities have been undermined by our decision to reduce the congestion. Less about rule changes as Ross is suggesting and more about our positioning and decision making.

Spot on, C.Pearce is a good kick but when you too slow to make decision in the fast game everybody will get their defensive wall set up.

Problem i see with current game plan
Player C slow to make decision
Player D make lazy decision without looking at options ,and always since to get always with stats booming high kick inside 50, tackle in congestion, got player like hills relied on if thing does not work ( the reason I disagree to offer 2 years contract, one year with the option of 2 based on freo future plan and direction will be fair for both side.)
Player M turn momentum to opposition by missing set shot
Player S fail to adjust to previous blocking role to current role (less blocking more duties to get the ball forward 50) with opposition try to attack with their fast movement.
Player B need sometime in the middle with peel with high disposal to get his confident back.

Note:
I don't believe box hill team got all elite kicker in the team like hawthorn , but still they implement the same game plan as hawthorn regardless of their disposal skill in the second .(collins as an example)

 

[Mr Peabody]

After getting hammered in the second quarter, one would have expected we'd revert to type and push numbers into the centre bouncedowns and from the start of the second half you can see that our wing on the commentary side was instructed to run into the opposition side of the bouncedowns to try and stop their hasty exits, but it obviously wasn't enough to arrest things.

Interesting to see what they try this week to reinforce our defending at stoppages as the noise suggests they don't want to revert to crowding around the ball. I did not see anything at training yesterday but maybe they'll try a few things out tomorrow once they move off the whiteboard. Won't be surprised if it's a closed session.

 

[scon]

The ball is either ours,theirs or contested.
Teams are attempting to attack,defend or transition.
Ross concentrated on full ground defense and employed congestion around the ball,manic pressure and the big mids as the fulcrum for this clamp on attacking options for the opposition.
I agree with all of the above posts re the new game plan.We're still ok at the contested,not so good at making it contested or winning it back when it's theirs,and when it's ours we tend to give it straight back to them;where we are again not so good at making it contested in fact likely to be out of position so considerably weaker defensively.

Consequently the stats from youmewe 's article.

I think the club has as good a collective footy IQ as any in the comp(we don't recruit as well as the Bullies have) and our list has some weaknesses.Bennell and Yarran's pace,precision and scoreboard impact were to be part of the shiny new offensive gameplan as salim malik pointed out.
There's also a promising crop of youngsters pushing.

As the article below suggests all teams are facing some version of the same conundrum..
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...k/news-story/44d4edc93b9e56455bb4861324de1d85
Adelaide coach Don Pyke confident his defensive game ...

We've just decided to undertake a significant paradigm shift.New game plan requires speedy decision making and precise skill execution.We've come up against two good sides,appear to have underestimated the difficulty of the gameplan transition,and had too many players having bad games.
I'm still happy I've got a membership and will 'strap myself in"!

 

[couldhavebeen]

Less congestion in the centre ball ups. Previously Sandi would drop the ball at his feet,the wingers would move in quickly ,cause a scrum and our big mids would use brute force to get the ball out. If we couldn't clear it the ball would be bottled up and rinse and repeat. This was fine but it did give the opposition backs time to close down our forwards. Now we are trying to finesse the ball out , Sandi even trying the long hit out. The wingers are staying wide waiting for the ball and then the quick transition hopefully into a more open forward half. Bennell and Yarran's pace was going to be important in this transition ,unfortunately we haven't had their presence. My opinion only so if any body else has an opinion on the game plan I would love to hear it.

Salim you got it in one ,Quicker ball movement and the wingers not being drawn in for the contested ball but being wide receiver's that when they get the ball put on the afterburners and run into space causing overlap ,drawing opposition defenders before offloading to forwards in space . The problem is that we don't have enough speedy players with good decision making and elite hand and foot skills to carry out the plan so RTB and the coaches are having to modify the plan to suit the cattle that we have got . The other problem is that the usual offenders of turning over the ball are still our ball winners at stoppages . RTB also got caught out with the game plan against Gold Coast because Abblett doesn't win his own ball at stoppages he lets others go in and get the ball and he positions himself in space to receive the ball then hit up targets by hand and foot .You can't Give Abblett that much time and space .
The reason Steven Hill is back in the midfield and why RTB has Walters also running through the midfield is because they have pace and are elite kicks but the real problem is that neither is physical strong so Fyfe , Barlow , Mundy and Suban are his go to guys . The change will be once Bennell is fit but he has to stay fit for the team game plan to work.

 

[george2]

Salim you got it in one ,Quicker ball movement and the wingers not being drawn in for the contested ball but being wide receiver's that when they get the ball put on the afterburners and run into space causing overlap ,drawing opposition defenders before offloading to forwards in space . The problem is that we don't have enough speedy players with good decision making and elite hand and foot skills to carry out the plan so RTB and the coaches are having to modify the plan to suit the cattle that we have got . The other problem is that the usual offenders of turning over the ball are still our ball winners at stoppages . RTB also got caught out with the game plan against Gold Coast because Abblett doesn't win his own ball at stoppages he lets others go in and get the ball and he positions himself in space to receive the ball then hit up targets by hand and foot .You can't Give Abblett that much time and space .
The reason Steven Hill is back in the midfield and why RTB has Walters also running through the midfield is because they have pace and are elite kicks but the real problem is that neither is physical strong so Fyfe , Barlow , Mundy and Suban are his go to guys . The change will be once Bennell is fit but he has to stay fit for the team game plan to work.

I think we are all hoping that Weller can become our midfielder that can play both inside and outside as he has the pace and the skills that we desperately need, another couple of pre seasons and he will have the build to be able to do this along with the tank. Lets hope that he can put it all together

 

[meima]

Salim you got it in one ,Quicker ball movement and the wingers not being drawn in for the contested ball but being wide receiver's that when they get the ball put on the afterburners and run into space causing overlap ,drawing opposition defenders before offloading to forwards in space . The problem is that we don't have enough speedy players with good decision making and elite hand and foot skills to carry out the plan so RTB and the coaches are having to modify the plan to suit the cattle that we have got . The other problem is that the usual offenders of turning over the ball are still our ball winners at stoppages . RTB also got caught out with the game plan against Gold Coast because Abblett doesn't win his own ball at stoppages he lets others go in and get the ball and he positions himself in space to receive the ball then hit up targets by hand and foot .You can't Give Abblett that much time and space .
The reason Steven Hill is back in the midfield and why RTB has Walters also running through the midfield is because they have pace and are elite kicks but the real problem is that neither is physical strong so Fyfe , Barlow , Mundy and Suban are his go to guys . The change will be once Bennell is fit but he has to stay fit for the team game plan to work.

I think we need to risk some younger player or new mature age player (yarran) in for the new game plan to work. suban,C.pearce , deboer,Mayne ,d.Pearce ,Barlow , Sandi, pav , ballas , Johnson, Dawson all up take 4 years of their career to learn Ross old game plan. Also I don't think is bad to send some of them to second to guide the next generation and find some form.

 

[Randomizor]

Less congestion in the centre ball ups. Previously Sandi would drop the ball at his feet,the wingers would move in quickly ,cause a scrum and our big mids would use brute force to get the ball out. If we couldn't clear it the ball would be bottled up and rinse and repeat. This was fine but it did give the opposition backs time to close down our forwards. Now we are trying to finesse the ball out , Sandi even trying the long hit out. The wingers are staying wide waiting for the ball and then the quick transition hopefully into a more open forward half. Bennell and Yarran's pace was going to be important in this transition ,unfortunately we haven't had their presence. My opinion only so if any body else has an opinion on the game plan I would love to hear it.

I reckon it would be cool for Sandi to do the long hit out more. Just every so often in a game to add some unpredictability. I reckon it would be awesome to do at the start of a game, would throw everyone off guard haha

 

[Mr Fonebone]

The main issue here as I see it is that we do not have capable man-on-man defenders to handle opposition forwards. In the past this did not matter so much as we played a full energy-sapping team defence. With the changes this year that cannot be done.

We have had to rely on Sutcliffe, Hill and Sheridan and they are not defenders. They are midfielders. We also lack McPharlin to marshal the defence and Johnno has yet to hit his straps. Don't get me started on replacing Silvagni with Clancee against Bullies - appalling decision.

This weekend these defenders will be up against McGovern, Kennedy, LeCras and Darling. They will get smashed. Our only hope to win is to the flood the backline and hope to catch them on the break.

Ugly I know but a win is a win.

Also Silvagni has to play - at least he can win one on ones and has been very serviceable in the past. Ibbotson is ok as a also. I would be very tempted to bring in Grey. He would keep Le Cras or Cripps honest. You need a distributer from half back and Tucker can fit this bill. At least he can kick the bloody ball well. Dawson just needs to spoil Kennedy all day.

Silvagni to Darling
Spurr to Le Cras
Dawson to Kennedy
Johnson to McGovern
Grey to Crippsl
Ibbo to Hill
Tucker - sweeper

Midfield - Sandi, Fyfe, Sutcliffe, Weller, Langdon, Neale, Hill, Suban, Mundy, deBoer

Forwards - Pav, Walters, Ballantine, Taberner, A Pearce

Mayne, Clancee, D Pearce and Barlow can go back to peel to find form.

 

[DudleyDocker]

This weekend these defenders will be up against McGovern, Kennedy, LeCras and Darling. They will get smashed. Our only hope to win is to the flood the backline and hope to catch them on the break.

Do not want! I would rather lose trying to implement an attacking game plan than to revert to the old when we "need" to win. It's taking the guys forever to get their heads around the new style, going back to the old would be like giving a guy who's quitting smoking a durrie to tide him through a tough time.

Let's wear all the pain now and go for broke in the second half of the year.