Perth Stadium (Optus Stadium)

[RedV3x]

It doesn't,.

Why should the government throw away our money then.

its about economic activity.

And that's exactly what I've been talking about.
If the economic activity doesn't generate the turnover and thus boost the economy then what's the point ?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So you're saying that by underwriting events the government is losing opportunity cost by not funding say infrastructure
or are you're saying that by underwriting events the government is losing opportunity cost by not reducing debt ?

Im saying (in this case) tourism wa (?) Is spending $xxxx on an event, there are other events or campaigns that cannot happen. The opportunity cost is the benefits that these foresaken arrangements would have provided

For example, instead of ir, if tourism wa underwrote an exclsive australian tour of the Bolshoi to perth

Also you math doesnt account for internal transfers

For instance, if Kwality goes and spends $300 on the night (all up), this isnt $300 of nee economic activity for wa. Kwaility hates non sandgropers, so he hasnt left the state since he got back from ww2. If he didnt go to this event, he would have spent his money elsewhere in wa on booze, bongs, hookers, and wcepornhub.com

So the economic benefit is only from those sales of people who came into wa for the event, or those in wa who would have spent outside the state if not for the event

Otherwise you are just xhanging how the money is spent, not where (wa)

A lot of marketing is around some of these events, and some state bodies put a value on this. The f1 gp is a classic. "Melbourne" is a sponsor, and it with the ausopen underpins the states global marketing campaign

I dont think this is a factor for ir because ive seen zero ads so far in vic (and we will be the prime target market)

Finally you have feel good factor. It costs money, generates little, and is the main reason polis underwrite sporting events

 

[RedV3x]

Im saying (in this case) tourism wa (?) Is spending $xxxx on an event, there are other events or campaigns that cannot happen. The opportunity cost is the benefits that these foresaken arrangements would have provided

So you're basically backing up what I said that if the underwriting of an event doesn't return a benefit then in addition you've lost the benefit of using that money on something else like another event that might lose even more money. Yes, i can see that. I'd prefer that the money stay, stay wherever it's accounted for and pay off debt.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So you're basically backing up what I said that if the underwriting of an event doesn't return a benefit then in addition you've lost the benefit of using that money on something else like another event that might lose even more money. Yes, i can see that. I'd prefer that the money stay, stay wherever it's accounted for and pay off debt.

No, because its much more than that

Your simplistic formula ignores all of that

 

[RedV3x]

No, because its much more than that.

Then show how the government gets a return on it's investment. (Hint don't use income tax)
Show how the WA government can make money by not charging events but charging WA taxpayers.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Then show how the government gets a return on it's investment. (Hint don't use income tax)
Show how the WA government can make money by not charging events but charging WA taxpayers.

By showing hoe many tourists you will atrract to wa exclusively off this event, and the econonic activity their spending will DIRECTLY generate

Even this is hard however, so i havr two suggestions

1) YOU WILL NO MAKE A PROFIT, so dont try. If this was a moneyspinner, the afl would underwrite it themselves. The reason the govt is involved is because it isnt. Most sport underwriting is in this boat, so no point our polis pretending otherwise

2) HAVE TRANSPARENT KPIs. Okay, so we aint making a profit, then give us a transparent and tangible measure of an events success. Is it to have no fewer that 39 events at perth stadium hosting no less than 50k per annum? Is it to promote perth across australia by hosting an ir game that will rate 1.5m across thr land? Is it just for a big party to celebrate the new ground?

Not everything has to make money, but everything govt money is used for should have clear goals, and pass/fail benchmarks attached

 

[RedV3x]

Not everything has to make money, but everything govt money is used for should have clear goals, and pass/fail benchmarks attached

So show how the WA government will befit from underwriting events. Please.
I am interested in how the WA government will befit from underwriting these events specific to the new stadium.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So show how the WA government will befit from underwriting events.

Thats their job, not mine

For for the third time, by showing AND CONFIRMING that an event will be attended by x number of fans outside wa, they will spend $x, and this is why us spending $x is worth it

This is a question you should be asking tourism wa however. They are your taxes, not mine

 

[RedV3x]

By showing hoe many tourists you will atrract to wa exclusively off this event, and the econonic activity their spending will DIRECTLY generate

Which I have shown to be DIRECTLY to be a 1/30 return to WA government.

 

[RedV3x]

They are your taxes, not mine

So you have absolutely no idea how the WA government can retrieve it's outlay.
That's all I wanted to know.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Which I have shown to be DIRECTLY to be a 1/30 return to WA government.

Then id go back to them, because that formula is a farce

How is govt dollars being spent to pursuade wa peeps to not buy something in wa for something else in wa a good use of govt dollars

You need to know how many tourists outside wa this will attract, and how this is being validated.

We have had states claim tourist numbers above local hotel capacity for example. Hold them accountable to verifiable benchmarks

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So you have absolutely no idea how the WA government can retrieve it's outlay.
That's all I wanted to know.

No, i dont care because its not my money

I do give a shit on the vic govt funding everything from the gp to the logies though

 

[RedV3x]

For for the third time, by showing AND CONFIRMING that an event will be attended by x number of fans outside wa, they will spend $x, and this is why us spending $x is worth it

But it's NOT. Tourists spend $x and the WA government receives $x/30.
That's fine with with sports that pay their own way like AFL the government is going to receive stadia income + tax income - stadia costs.
If the government is underwriting an event the government will receive tax income - stadia income - stadia costs - underwriting costs.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

But it's NOT. Tourists spend $x and the WA government receives $x/30.
That's fine with with sports that pay their own way like AFL the government is going to receive stadia income + tax income - stadia costs.
If the government is underwriting an event the government will receive tax income - stadia income - stadia costs - underwriting costs.

This is my point -HOW MANY TOURISTS???

As kwality has highlighted on the h&a discussion, govt talk regarding exactly how many will fly over for the 10k ga is optimistic at best

How many tourists is the govt budgeting for at the ir game?

 

[RedV3x]

that formula is a farce

Yet you cannot debunk this funding equation or propose any funding model whatsoever that makes sense.
All you can say is that it's WA's problem and obviously you are not from WA so why comment on something
that doesn't concern you and something that you have shown to have no expertise in.

 

[Kwality]

Then show how the government gets a return on it's investment. (Hint don't use income tax)
Show how the WA government can make money by not charging events but charging WA taxpayers.

You are running the line, its nonsense & others are doing you slowly .... call it quits

 

[RedV3x]

This is my point -HOW MANY TOURISTS???

And HOW does the government recoup their investment from these tourists. How ?
You have discard the G.S.T. model so how does the WA govenment get money from tourists ?
It's not a difficult question.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

And HOW does the government recoup their investment from these tourists. How ?
You have discard the G.S.T. model so how does the WA govenment get money from tourists ?
It's not a difficult question.

I disregarded your gst model because it includes spending by locals that was never leaving wa

How many tourists does the govt expect to attend?

 

[RedV3x]

How many tourists is the govt budgeting for at the ir game?

None. They don't have to do they. The WA government is not underwriting the I.R. series to my knowledge.
The government will be making money exactly the same way as an AFL game.
The government would be expecting interstate tourists for AFL and I.R. and international tourists for I.R. as a bonus.

 

[RedV3x]

You are running the line, its nonsense & others are doing you slowly .... call it quits

Really. Then point to the answers.
Show how the government gets a return on it's investment. (Hint don't use income tax)
Show how the WA government can make money by not charging events but charging WA taxpayers.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

None. They don't have to do they. The WA government is not underwriting the I.R. series to my knowledge.
The government will be making money exactly the same way as an AFL game.
The government would be expecting interstate tourists for AFL and I.R. and international tourists for I.R. as a bonus.

Then how.many for h&a?

 

[Kwality]

This is my point -HOW MANY TOURISTS???

As kwality has highlighted on the h&a discussion, govt talk regarding exactly how many will fly over for the 10k ga is optimistic at best

How many tourists is the govt budgeting for at the ir game?

This weekend a Tourism WA promoted national event is happening at Barbagallo Raceway out Wanneroo way, the V8 supercars circus, is in town - Tourism WA nominally promote it, but as a Melbourne based fan I've not heard a mention outside the specialised press, no attempt to attract the many Vic based fans I know who travel to Adelaide, Tas, Darwin, Townsville etc - I see Tourism WAs influence on the new Stadium as conflicted, about their own influence - other than having a $budget, they want to use AFL footy, use the fans, put $zilch in.

You are spot on 74, the numbers are there I'm sure ... not in anyones interest to release them is my take & that's not good.

 

[Kwality]

Really. Then point to the answers.
Show how the government gets a return on it's investment. (Hint don't use income tax)
Show how the WA government can make money by not charging events but charging WA taxpayers.

The Govt wont make money directly, its the economic activity they are seeking to drive ..... and its not easy to prove an argument conclusively either way.

 

[RedV3x]

This weekend a Tourism WA promoted national event is happening at Barbagallo Raceway .

Please restrict talk to the relevant football model. Chalk and cheese.
I don't want to know who's underwriting what. I would like a simple explanation as to how a government receives a return on it's investment
specifically w.r.t. to the Perth Stadium.

 

[RedV3x]

I disregarded your gst model because it includes spending by locals that was never leaving wa

How many tourists does the govt expect to attend?

If you restrict the model to interstate tourists then you're really doing it hard.
Regardles, how are you going to get money from tourists into the WA government's coffers?
Simple question. Please answer without any diversion.
Please restrict any replies to answering this simple question.
If you don't Know. Then say so.