The off topic thread 5.0

[Bojan KantKick]

Bojan KantKick is this far from where you live. Pretty funny.

haha I wish mate. That's a beautiful part of the world. You are looking at £2m+ to get a decent 2-3 bedroom apartment there. About 90 mins away on the train for me.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

You're saying the US has never been involved in peacemaking, wtf are you on about?

Do you know the history of US involvement in both wars?

 

[SM]

Do you know the history of US involvement in both wars?

No I have no clue.. come on mate, I'm just making the point that they were then involved in ending the wars and the peace talks. You made a dumb blanket statement.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

As opposed to Russia who since its inception in 1991 has attacked / invaded many of its neighbors?


You need to view the Ukranian conflict through the eyes of Ukranian people. They are what matters most - not Putin and his delusions of Ukraine being part of the greater Russian empire.

The Russians starved the Ukranians in Holomodor. In the 1800s Russians banned the use of Ukranian language and actively tried to quash it by Russiafying Ukranian areas. Historically Russia has always tried to kill of Ukranian nationality & identity and that continues to this very day with Putin's fascist invasion of a peaceful Ukraine whos only crime was that it no longer wanted to be a Russian puppet state.


I may also remind you that in the 1990s Ukraine inherited much sophisticated military tech and nuclear weapons from the dissolution of the USSR. Ukraine itself did not have much in the way of expertise operating this. The US encouraged them to turn over this to Russia in an agreement that seen Russia guarantee it respects Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and never to attack Ukraine again. This was the Budapest memorandum and it is (was) a perpetual agreement.

Fast forward to the 2000s and Russia are already actively meddling in Ukrainian affairs by meddling in elections. Poisoning leaders of opposition to pro Russian parties. Clear and obvious attempts to block Ukraine from developing cultural & political ties to Europe which is the direction the country has been heading since independence from the USSR in 1991. Naturally Ukraine looks to western integration to defend itself from clear Russian aggression.

The people of Ukraine finally had enough when Yanukovych effectively became a puppet for Putin (funny you didn't mention this as an issue) and went against all agreements the Rada had made in regards to signing an European association agreement at the behest of Putin. This was the last straw for the average Ukranian. Maidan involved milllions and millions of people. You might want to see how the pro Russian party of regions party fared in the 2014 presidential elections to see just what the average Ukranian citizen thinks of Russian stooges in parliament.

Which leads us to today where Putin, being the rampant fascist he is, simply does not accept Ukranian culture or national identity and is still insisting on destroying it. Hence here we are today. Putin thinks that Ukraine does not have a right to exist and does not believe in Ukranian national identity. That's why for him attacking and invading the place is not a difficult decision. The fact that his soldiers are torturing, raping and killing citizens of Ukraine en masse does not bother him as anyone in Ukraine who doesn't want to be a Russian puppet is the enemy to him anyway.

Obviously anyone can understand that Putin wants to maintain a relationship with neighboring countries for security reasons. He just needs to learn that it must be a bilateral relationship - not a one way relationship where he calls the shots.

You continue to assume that I am defending the actions of Putin when I am not. I do think your view of him is overly simplistic though. Allowing Ukraine to join NATO is as large a security risk to Russia as there can possibly be.

I didn't mention Yanukovych as an issue as he could have been democratically voted out of office as opposed to overthrown by force.

Soldiers torturing and raping innocents and POW's is horrible but the UN say that this isn't a one way street - Ukrainian and Russian POWs tortured and ill-treated: OHCHR

The views of the 'average Ukrainian' as you call it have no doubt changed over the last 12-18 months but it is disingenuous to imply that they are all the same. Your Ukrainian friends will no doubt acknowledge that a significant proportion of the population consider/ed themselves as Russian. There is no way Yanukovych could have gained power initially without this being the case. As I said, I have no doubt this view has changed somewhat, even in the eastern areas of the country.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

No I have no clue.. come on mate, I'm just making the point that they were then involved in ending the wars and the peace talks. You made a dumb blanket statement.

That must have been after they had sold armaments to both sides in both world wars and supplied both sides with as much money as they wanted at crippling interest rates. The UK only paid off their WW2 debts to the US in 2006 with Germany doing the same in 2010. War is a Racket.

In both wars they started off neutral with their presidents winning terms based on extending that neutrality. They only got involved in WW1 because the Germans were trying to ally with Mexico. Funny how history continues to repeat itself. Thankfully the US haven't repeated their method of peace talks with Japan.

 

[Zidane98]

You continue to assume that I am defending the actions of Putin when I am not. I do think your view of him is overly simplistic though. Allowing Ukraine to join NATO is as large a security risk to Russia as there can possibly be.

I didn't mention Yanukovych as an issue as he could have been democratically voted out of office as opposed to overthrown by force.

Soldiers torturing and raping innocents and POW's is horrible but the UN say that this isn't a one way street - Ukrainian and Russian POWs tortured and ill-treated: OHCHR

The views of the 'average Ukrainian' as you call it have no doubt changed over the last 12-18 months but it is disingenuous to imply that they are all the same. Your Ukrainian friends will no doubt acknowledge that a significant proportion of the population consider/ed themselves as Russian. There is no way Yanukovych could have gained power initially without this being the case. As I said, I have no doubt this view has changed somewhat, even in the eastern areas of the country.

Yeah there are Russian sympathisers in Ukraine. The majority are not though and this needs to be respected by Russia. Not exploited.

 

[Zidane98]

Also Yanukovych was not thrown out by force. He literally fled the country into the arms of his Russian employers. He was going down for treason (was actually caught destroying documents). A temporary leader was voted in by the very same government that existed pre Maidan.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Also Yanukovych was not thrown out by force. He literally fled the country into the arms of his Russian employers. He was going down for treason (was actually caught destroying documents). A temporary leader was voted in by the very same government that existed pre Maidan.

Your splitting hairs mate. He could have stayed around to be executed I guess.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Yeah there are Russian sympathisers in Ukraine. The majority are not though and this needs to be respected by Russia. Not exploited.

As I said, this war has probably eradicated most of them

 

[Zidane98]

Your splitting hairs mate. He could have stayed around to be executed I guess.

Lol. He fled to Russia. That's a pretty obvious clue.

 

[Zidane98]

As I said, this war has probably eradicated most of them

Being next door to Russia and the history of the two nations means there always will be Russian sympathisers in Ukraine. Even after what the Russians have done over the last 12 months.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Being next door to Russia and the history of the two nations means there always will be Russian sympathisers in Ukraine. Even after what the Russians have done over the last 12 months.

Of course as a lot of people consider/ed themselves Russian.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

That must have been after they had sold armaments to both sides in both world wars and supplied both sides with as much money as they wanted at crippling interest rates. The UK only paid off their WW2 debts to the US in 2006 with Germany doing the same in 2010. War is a Racket.

In both wars they started off neutral with their presidents winning terms based on extending that neutrality. They only got involved in WW1 because the Germans were trying to ally with Mexico. Funny how history continues to repeat itself. Thankfully the US haven't repeated their method of peace talks with Japan.

While I don't agree that peace was their primary intention in WW2. There was acknowledgment by some in both parties from within Washington before Pearl Harbor that their formal involvement in Europe was inevitable at some point.

But they did enter the war defending their sovereignty from an unprovoked attack. Which is neither an action of peacemaker or war mongering on either side of the fence.

Using nukes as a means to broker peace is as subtle as a sledgehammer.

 

[ADL9798]

Can someone explain to me why our government didn’t even try to negotiate equity in companies like Qantas in exchange for the billions we handed them in bailouts to keep them afloat?

Why shouldn’t taxpayers be sharing the spoils in the resurgence of these businesses given without taxpayers these businesses may not even exist today?

The US should have done the same during the GFC.

 

[Zidane98]

Can someone explain to me why our government didn’t even try to negotiate equity in companies like Qantas in exchange for the billions we handed them in bailouts to keep them afloat?

Why shouldn’t taxpayers be sharing the spoils in the resurgence of these businesses given without taxpayers these businesses may not even exist today?

The US should have done the same during the GFC.

The US Govt sold shares bought in GM to keep it afloat at a profit didn't it?

Qantas definitely. Probably not a company that got more taxpayer funding throughout COVID than it did.

 

[joop]

LMAO. What are you talking about

America dropping a nuke on Japan was a pretty effective peace talk, the Japanese are polite AF these days.

 

[SM]

America dropping a nuke on Japan was a pretty effective peace talk, the Japanese are polite AF these days.

Someone responds negatively to SM
Joop:

 

[Bradesmaen]

America dropping a nuke on Japan was a pretty effective peace talk, the Japanese are polite AF these days.

 

[joop]

SM trying to use my own joke against me:

 

[SM]

SM trying to use my own joke against me:
View attachment 1615663

Are you still sooking in the manager thread?

 

[Bradesmaen]

SM trying to use my own joke against me:
View attachment 1615663

SM walking into a thread

 

[SM]

SM walking into a thread

Says the guy with the worst takes on players who just wants a reaction.

 

[joop]

SM walking into a thread

Making a comment wondering if SM will respond:

 

[undefined]

America dropping a nuke on Japan was a pretty effective peace talk, the Japanese are polite AF these days.

Haven't read this thread in yonks and I see this as I'm sipping cold brew in a Hiroshima Starbucks.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Making a comment wondering if SM will respond:

View attachment 1615949

I mean I've got him on ignore now